I love the Bashar method of questioning beliefs and delving down to find where they come from:

"What would i have to believe is true about my relationship to this situation in order to feel this way; to react like this?"

And I have uncovered underlying "big" beliefs that have underpinned a lot of stuff. Bashar goes on to say:

"Your higher mind will help you find the beliefs that are generating that emotional experience. Next as soon as you identify the belief it is gone."

However, this is not happening.

I am having some difficulty with two pretty foundational beliefs that I uncovered. The first is that nothing changes and it cannot change and I am totally stuck. I know where this belief came from, I have felt the body sensations and emotions and done my best to sit with it and shift it. But it is not budging, I suspect because I do not believe it can shift, and so it pretty much can't shift. This belief also stops any other inner work I do from actually working, because nothing can change. Every time I make some progress, like moving from depression into anger, the depression takes over again and I end up in an emotional flash-back that I cannot pull out of. I end up simply wanting to give up and die. Again, I have done my best to allow the feeling and not to fight it, but to ask the questions and allow the emotions, but still not getting there. And it is pretty hard to stay in a space of wanting to give up totally for any length of time as I have to work. So I distract as best as I can and work with it when I am able, but it is taking its toll.

I should mention that I recently discovered that I dissociate frequently and struggle to stay present from one moment to the next. Inner work doesn't work well if you are not present for it. Again, I'm working with this, but it is not always possible for me to feel when I have dissociated as it is such a normal place for me. I have also found that EFT is not particularly helpful for me. My flashbacks don't cause traumatic feelings, but rather a freeze response that empties my emotional and cognitive functioning to the point where nothing except the defense mechanism is functioning. Tapping just seems to re-enforce the defense mechanism rather than actually shifting it.

I managed to move through a huge anger release recently and up to frustration and then came crashing down all the way into depression again. And I do this over and over. I just don't get beyond that point.

The other underlying belief I found is that I am not wanted. Again, I can see where this came from and I have applied all the methods I know, but I have attracted a lot of evidence of this belief over the decades and that makes it very difficult to refute and to shift.

I have gone through a period recently of evaluating all my beliefs and realising that I am not sure of any of them. Like if we have a higher purpose or if there is a Universe/God or any point to any of this. It is a process and I am not through yet, but as of right now I really don't have certainty in my heart about any of it.

Interestingly, my mind is quite happy questioning and debating and letting go of beliefs like these, but not the one that nothing can change.

And the defense mechanisms and circular thoughts have me well and truly trapped.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. With the caveat that it doesn't really help to be told to just change my thoughts - if I had figured that out I most certainly would be doing it!

asked 27 Nov, 07:59

Antheia's gravatar image

Antheia
67014

edited 01 Dec, 11:31

Hi @Antheia in my experience the common core beliefs causing defense mechanisms and circular thoughts are; "there is only one truth - I can't get what I want - beliefs are not choices - seeing is believing" ... once these are dealt with all other beliefs fall apart

(03 Dec, 03:57) jaz
showing 0 of 1 show 1 more comments

I think I found it.

You said that your belief is not budging because you suspect you believe it cannot shift.

Instead, uncover the belief that you cannot shift. Subtle important difference. Then, keep going, there may be more.

link

answered 27 Nov, 10:49

cmc's gravatar image

cmc
2.6k6

@cmc, sorry, you have lost me. The belief is that nothing changes and the evidence shows that. So, if the belief is that beliefs can't change, then how can you change the belief that beliefs can't change? That is the dilemma.

(27 Nov, 11:14) Antheia
1

Your belief that nothing can change is not keeping you from changing itself. A second belief- the one you said you suspect is there, but didn't directly work with yet- is making sure you cannot change the first. Work with the second, and then you will be able to work with the first.

The belief is not circular- it is only set up to appear that way as a trick in order to protect itself from your inquisitiveness. But then your higher self guided you to me, who helped you spot it.

(27 Nov, 11:36) cmc

That is not to say you will necessarily need help with all the tricky ones- you have one example now, that should make it easier to spot others.

(27 Nov, 11:38) cmc

@cmc, I was about to argue, but deleted my comment. I am not sure how to find this. It feels very locked-down. Like a prison. Like I am trying to see the outside from the inside and I'm not sure there is an outside. My brain feels totally frozen.

(27 Nov, 13:03) Antheia
1

@Antheia Keep going. ... and what would you have to believe in order to feel this?

(27 Nov, 13:14) cmc

@cmc, you were right, underneath that sits "if anything were to change, it would only get worse". Not sure how to shift that. Again, my mind is showing me all the evidence of why that is true. And honestly it feels really scary. Thank you so much.

(27 Nov, 15:55) Antheia
1

@Antheia Thank you, I know!

You don't have to shift that- you discovered it, it's gone. Congratulations!

Experience doesn't mean anything, so it's not evidence of anything at all. It's just experience. It only seems like evidence when you have- guess what- a belief about it. Keep going. When your mind shows you these things- what would you have to believe in order to feel that way?

(27 Nov, 18:03) cmc

@cmc, here is the thing, though. I uncovered the belief that things will just get worse, but now that is not gone. That was why I was confused about what Bashar said. I am not finding that the beliefs go when you find them. They become conscious, which is good, but they don't go.

Thank you for the insight on this. My mind really wanted to fight you on the first point! Thank you again so much.

(28 Nov, 04:21) Antheia
1

@Antheia Thanks, I know! It takes bravery to allow strangers on the Internet to analyze your beliefs.

I have a somewhat different interpretation- I think the belief is gone, but you may still have similar ones. Look closely. Keep going.

(28 Nov, 05:01) cmc

@cmc, thank you - you are very kind to keep helping.

(28 Nov, 07:19) Antheia
1

@Antheia Absolutely! And thank you for letting me, it feels great to be helpful.

(28 Nov, 07:30) cmc

@cmc, when you say keep going, do you suggest going back to the original belief that nothing can change and see if there are similar beliefs to the one that things will just get worse underlying it, or do I start with the latest one I uncovered?

I don't know how to explain this, but since starting to work with this, it feels like my brain is foggy and frozen and doesn't want to let me get to the stuff underneath. Is this usual? How does one overcome the brain's reticence?

(28 Nov, 07:39) Antheia
1

@Antheia You couldn't go back to the original belief if you wanted to- once you uncover it, it's gone. You can recreate it- and that's what happens by accidnet when you assume a similar belief is the original one.

So when you think the belief came back, assume it's a similar one. It might be almost identical, but it also might lead you to other, similar beliefs, that you also can uncover and consider gone.

Do you notice the word assume here? That is your power. You chose your assumption.

(29 Nov, 02:32) cmc
1

Fogginess and frozenness is just a habitual reaction of resistance. You don't overcome it, you uncover the beliefs it is based on, one by one, and it will disappear.

As you may have noticed, this is not like waving a magic wand- this is like digging a hole with a shovel. You keep going until the job is done.

(29 Nov, 02:35) cmc

@cmc, I edited my question to add a bit. This has been a powerful experience and I am hoping to work with this more. Thank you for the help!

(30 Nov, 10:59) Antheia
1

@cmc, " Experience doesn't mean anything, so it's not evidence of anything at all. It's just experience. It only seems like evidence when you have- guess what- a belief about it." This is brilliant :) and changed a lot of things for me. I would like to ask you a question about this conversation that has to do with what @Antheia is asking on her edit - I would like to know your opinion about this: in the book, the author said that to uncover all the negative beliefs would almost impossible...

(30 Nov, 15:40) VitoriaRegia

@cmc, @Antheia - If the person keeps pursuing all those negative beliefs, it may be a road without an end. The author proposed the following: suppose you have a jar full of candies, and you have yellow candies for negative beliefs and red candies for the positive beliefs. Instead of taking out the yellow candies, we should be adding lots and lots of red candies, until the candies overflowed out, and the yellow candies would fall out of the jar, letting only the red ones...

(30 Nov, 15:44) VitoriaRegia

@cmc, " Experience doesn't mean anything, so it's not evidence of anything at all. It's just experience. It only seems like evidence when you have- guess what- a belief about it." This is brilliant :) and changed a lot of things for me. I would like to ask you a question about this conversation that has to do with what @Antheia is asking on her edit - I would like to know your opinion about this: in one book, I read, the author said that to uncover all the negative beliefs...

(30 Nov, 15:46) VitoriaRegia

@cmc, @Antheia - would be almost impossible; that it could be a road without an end. He proposed this: suppose you have a jar full of candies, yellow ones for the negative beliefs and red ones for positive. In order to take the yellow ones from the jar, you should add red candies until the jar overflows, until all the yellow ones get out from the preassure of the read ones...

(30 Nov, 15:51) VitoriaRegia

@cmc, @Antheia - Which means that, by adding positive beliefs, the negative ones would diminish and disappear. Would you agree with that?

(30 Nov, 15:53) VitoriaRegia

@VitoriaRegia Oh thank you so much! Oh, what I said is brilliant!!! I'm blushing now, but do keep talking... ;) I do know it is true.

I think the candy analogy is great! Well, except that you keep filling the jar with different colored candies because what's positive for you changes over time.

A sticky negative belief happens when a candy melts and gets stuck to the wall, and to each other, until there is a kind of net of stuckness. Then you need to gently dislodge them by noticing the seams.

(01 Dec, 11:18) cmc

@Antheia If it's not too much to ask, could you edit your followup question back out, and put it into a new question? This Q&A format works best one at a time, I have found, and you get more karma points to boot, which is a fun game ;)

(01 Dec, 11:21) cmc

@cmc, will do! And I love the way you explained about the candy getting stuck to the wall and to other candies. That is such a good analogy!

Thank you for the help.

(01 Dec, 11:30) Antheia
1

@Antheia Oh thank you so much!

When you are examining your beliefs, what you are doing is prodding the candies with your thoughts. The candies are thought too, after all, so they respond to prodding. When the bonds weaken, the candy starts to flow.

It's nice to have a good candy flow! ;)

(01 Dec, 12:51) cmc

@cmc, thank you for sharing your point of view :)

(03 Dec, 07:54) VitoriaRegia

@cmc, you said that if the belief comes back, it is probably similar, but not the same. I felt so much relief after finding the underlying belief and the endless ruminating pretty much stopped - bliss! And then it came back, and it is the same old refrain. Is that a different underlying belief, or an echo, or what could cause it to come back again? Any thoughts would be so appreciated.

(03 Dec, 08:09) Antheia
1

@Antheia Bliss! Oh isn't that nice.

Stop assuming it came back, start assuming it's a different but similar belief, and repeat the process like you would for a radically different looking one.

(a week ago) cmc
showing 2 of 27 show 25 more comments

hi

the evidences you have about you being unwanted and things does'nt change will keep appearing for the rest of your life - yes.. even if you'll vibrate in the highest frequency. the only thing that matter is your responce to these evidences. you can take Bashar or Abraham hicks for example - they have tons of "negative" evidences from us about how f@@ up this world is but they are'nt being influenced by them. take a rich person, he got tons of evidence about how cruel he is, stingy, unliked by people and more... but he is not letting it get under his skin. its almost as if he doesnt see the evidence, or laugh at it, or feel compassion. and there are many many many moer examles i can give.

this evidece are just the diversity of this universe. many people=many types of behaviours , and we cant control how other people act. we cant creat EVER an ouside perfet world. but we can creat a perfect inner world, so perfect and loving that nothing will be able to influece us outside of ourselves.

when you will stop care (for real) about evidence or people changing or loving you, then it will shift. its really hard to try and control the outside world. the work is suposed to be an inside one. let everyone be free to do whatever they want but most importently identify what you want and let yourself be free to do whatever you want.

the expectation that the evidences will disapear can exhaust you and bring you down, because it will not happen. the feelings in you must change regardless of what you see.

link

answered 29 Nov, 16:51

myself's gravatar image

myself
8617

edited 29 Nov, 17:13

@myself, I do agree with this :)

(29 Nov, 22:38) VitoriaRegia
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