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Considering the world's current circumstances, the answer to this question would seem to have the biggest payoff of any question ever asked, by anyone, through all time... Is it on record...? Has it been answered...? Who of us is without sin...? Without a doubt, answering this question acceptably or correctly will give me -- and virtually every other ambitious and capable person in this world, the golden opportunity to be the person they've always wanted to be. Is this 'worst' sin a personal sin, or a collective-universal sin...?
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I feel that the worst sin is not fully living and appreciating this beautiful gift given us,Life. Thank you, namaste Its going to be difficult to find an answer that is fuller in meaning than the one you have offered -- thank you.
(07 Jan '11, 18:57)
The Prophet
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The meaning of the word sin is to miss the mark, - I don't think that there are too many walking this planet who haven't missed the mark at some stage in their life. Only by missing the mark do we get to realize what doesn't work so we can recognize what does work, and thus expand and grow in the process. Better and worse, like right and wrong are just value judgements and will be different for each individual - for this reason I don't think there is a worst sin, either individually or collectively. I believe we all have different aspects of our being that need to grow and we are all provided with the opportunities needed for that growth. Some of those opportunities include us having to miss the mark at times in order to realize the wisdom contained within those perceived mistakes. I prefer to use the word mistake rather than sin because when we realize the wisdom or lesson contained within it, it's no longer a mistake but an implement for growth and expansion Thanks... That makes sense... But isn't there some kind of 'general degradation' that occurs when a particular mistake is repeatedly made...? Maybe something like a 'fatal flaw' in humanity that could cost us everything as a civilization...?
(07 Jan '11, 16:24)
The Prophet
I don't know if I would call a a 'general degradation' Neil - more like a 'denser belief' in the illusion. However, I choose to believe that as a species we are beginning to 'wake up' and become more 'aware' - as we continue to do this, the illusion we've been living begins to dissolve, so that 'fatal flaw' will never occur.
(07 Jan '11, 16:55)
Michaela
Well said... And it fits... but it still doesn't explain the level of unrecognized and unresolved disorder and confusion that characterize our situation... Mistake or not -- there IS sin -- deliberate wrongdoing, so there must be a particularly difficult or subtle concept: -- like 'betrayal' that is just to subtle for many people to characterize... I Oh well, thanks for trying.
(07 Jan '11, 18:07)
The Prophet
I think each of us sees the world exactly as we choose to and I know how I choose to perceive it. When we begin to see those criminals as 'errant children' who have had no guidance,then we begin to perceive a world built on hope. 'Who am I to cast the first stone?'
(07 Jan '11, 19:25)
Michaela
Darn -- I'm the bad guy again... I just love spiritual people... ther're so precise with their little put-downs... It might help you to know that I've raised 4 children -- so I know when and where to cast the stones... You were doing pretty good up to this point.
(07 Jan '11, 20:17)
The Prophet
Ha! Touche! Love you anyway Neil - And I did say 'I' not 'You' :)
(07 Jan '11, 21:02)
Michaela
By the way, I too have 4 children but I'm not too sure what that has to do with my comment. I was referring to 'those criminals' as 'errant children' and don't see what that has to do with you being a parent???
(07 Jan '11, 21:06)
Michaela
Of course I see criminals as errent children, but my primary obligation as a man, is to participate in the just (and expeditious) removal of the threat that crime poses to my community... I'm not God (and I'm pretty sure you aren't), so I somewhat resent the implication that I should play that role... Are we okay?
(08 Jan '11, 10:59)
The Prophet
@Neil - Of course we're okay. We are both choosing to play the roles we are playing and even though we may differ in our opinion, it's all good. I know I'm not going to grow if I'm constantly looking for people to agree with me all the time. I do have a little piece of advice if you're open to hearing it, and that is that you can absolutely disagree and offer your opinion but please try to do it in a little less brusque manner. We're all here to learn and grow from each other and on my journey I've found the greatest thing I've done for myself is to open my mind to other's opinions :)
(08 Jan '11, 13:37)
Michaela
Michaele, less brusque I shall earnest try to be... But I still (and even more now) resent your implication that I should behave like a women -- and mother everyone -- even those who are so completely fill of s__t, that everyone in the community knows it... That's a trap that I don't plan to fall into... Thank you for your feedback.
(08 Jan '11, 14:57)
The Prophet
I'm not sure where I said you should behave like a woman? - I have no power over how you or anyone else behaves, that power my friend is yours and you always have the choice how to do so :)
(08 Jan '11, 15:40)
Michaela
I just love spiritual people ;-)
(09 Jan '11, 11:37)
The Prophet
Me too Neil - That's why I participate here :)
(09 Jan '11, 13:37)
Michaela
That's great... but I thought only men were so intent on having the last word... Oh well, you can have the last word if it matters so much to you... Im pretty tired of this game.
(09 Jan '11, 15:28)
The Prophet
Actually Neil, I would like to take this opportunity to thank you ( and I really mean that sincerely). You have given me the opportunity, with this interaction, to observe my own ego - and that is where greatest growth often takes place. You have helped immeasurably with my spiritual practice the last day or two and for that I am genuinely grateful. I'm not saying this to have the last word, so you can come back and do that if you wish. Once again my heartfelt thanks :) Michaela
(09 Jan '11, 17:22)
Michaela
Thank you Michaela... Being a strong and ambitious women is a VERY GOOD thing, but I could feel that you were not completely okay with it yet... I'm here, if you want to share some more... Love, Neil
(09 Jan '11, 17:36)
The Prophet
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Mr Roberts this might not be the answer you are looking for but it is based on my perspective and all of our realities are based on "our" perspectives. I do not believe there are any sins of humanity. Yes that is what I just said. Now, there are actions created by man and humanity but that is all they are.Some cause pain and suffering and some do not. But all happen for the greater good. Without these so called sins we could not have compassion, growth and better development. I donot wish any harm to anyone but life tells us constant contrast is inevitable. It just IS. We have chosen to label it as a one time event but the sequential after affects always proplel us to greater heights. All that humanity does is for us as a whole to be able to grow. And that means suffering on the way. And for that we should be thankful. Thankfully Michael Thanks for your help... Are you saying that each of us creates their own reality...? But, if we each have a different reality, how do we have common goals...? With the term sin, my meaning is generally understood to refer to something that is morally wrong -- that injures someone else... Do you believe in morality...?
(07 Jan '11, 16:16)
The Prophet
I absolutely do. But not everybody does and we need that. A world without "sin" would cease to grow.
(07 Jan '11, 16:22)
jim 10
So, if I understand you fully, you're saying that the world needs sinners as a contrast to good, so that people can grow... Then I fairly must ask you: how many sinners do we need...? Do we each decide that for ourselves... ? Wouldn't we all be better off with fewer sinners...? I mean really, this planet seems to be inundated with criminals of all sorts... Wouldn't you relish removing a few (thousand or million) of them...? Isn't there a simpler way to characterize this dilemma -- like: "crime is sin -- get rid of the bastards..."
(07 Jan '11, 17:52)
The Prophet
Yes you do, Thank you Neil. We always have the right amount of sinners. Everything is always as it should be and change accordingly to what is needed without our attempt to control it. Everything you see is a gift from God, so everything is right. I am now confused bout these "them" you are talking about. There is no them. They are us. What you see is yourself in a different form. All is oneness. And "those bastards" you talk about are someones children and/or parents who are loved dearly. If your child committed a crime would you like me to get rid of that "bastard"?
(07 Jan '11, 18:12)
jim 10
As for that them thing. I am source, you are source, we are the same source. Why would I ever want to hurt myself?
(07 Jan '11, 18:16)
jim 10
Thank you... Of course "them" refers to: criminals... Not to disappoint you, but I have no reflected or imagined 'them' in my subconscious to account for... But I do have 4 children, and therefore have a very real reason for wanting to dispose of those who would harm them... (Sorry, attacking me personally is not going to help you solve YOUR problem...) I did notice that it didn't take you long to start hitting below the belt... Hey there's a clue for you... Isn't hitting below the belt a sin...?!
(07 Jan '11, 18:50)
The Prophet
... If it isn't -- it certainly should be... That's a dirty trick!
(07 Jan '11, 19:01)
The Prophet
I am so sorry you think I attacked you for I have no intention to. My point is there is no them. I am no way hitting below the belt. The point I am trying to make is we are ALL GOD CHILDREN even the criminals. And the point about kids (and I did not know you had any) is that we sometimes change our ideas about situations and people when they are our own. If you looked at every single person as your grand mother or child you would have more compassion for them. Good luck and be well Neil and I am sorry that you grossly misunderstood me. Dirty trick???
(07 Jan '11, 19:25)
jim 10
I understood you... You didn't understand you...
(07 Jan '11, 20:08)
The Prophet
Ok Neil you come off very argumentative. I will let you be.
(07 Jan '11, 20:22)
jim 10
People who search google looking for relief for their spiritual anguish, will be much more emotionally sensitive and discerning than I am... be more careful what you assume to be true about life.
(07 Jan '11, 20:36)
The Prophet
Neil, it is the level of truth of your belief; separateness or spirituality. one does learns about the truth from the experience of opposites. maybe our search is of curiosity for more knowledge. fred
(08 Jan '11, 16:49)
fred
The Thinking mind is never satisfied. Contemplation, on the other hand, is completely different. If this comment is beyond comprehension, it is intentional. Peace!
(08 Jan '11, 17:17)
The Traveller
@The Traveler...Heavy and yet so light and airy.
(08 Jan '11, 17:25)
jim 10
The Traveler... The Wanderer... That pretty much sums it up.... You guys are "free" while the rest of the world has to be directly accountable for what they say and do... do you get it yet?
(09 Jan '11, 10:45)
The Prophet
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This reality is held together by sin. Without it, there would be nothing. Sins are subjective to the sinner, and the observer of those sins. Let's just say that they don't help your spiritual progress, but at some point sinning will reach a saturation level where they become ineffective to the sinner. I'm afraid I don't understand: "held together together by sin."
(07 Jan '11, 20:40)
The Prophet
We are in a world of freedom. Free to do anything that we like. But that includes sinning. With out sins, there would not be freedom. All levels of choice must be represented in a free world and that includes sin. It does not make it right, it just is. I would love the world to be, "Happily ever after", but that is not possible with true freedom.
(07 Jan '11, 21:04)
The Knights Alchemy
Sorry -- you're not 'free' to sin in my world... My world punishes sin, on behalf of those good people who are working hard to oppose it.
(07 Jan '11, 21:08)
The Prophet
The Salem Witch trials are an example of this type of thinking. They were obsessed by "controlling" sin. Many interpretations of sins are mans way of controlling others idea of what is right and wrong. Other religions have their interpretations that would say you are sinning when in your religion, you are not.
(09 Jan '11, 04:38)
The Knights Alchemy
What do you know about The Salem Witch Trials...? Where you there...? If not, where do you get this great "truth" you preach...? True religion (for those who DO more that preach about it), is gleaned from personal, real-life experiences... What have you DONE -- other than read and preach?
(09 Jan '11, 11:27)
The Prophet
Put that energy inward instead of, If I am telling the truth or not. Don't listen to me. I am nobody. I claim nothing. I make suggestions and that is all. Now, whether you feel I am blowing smoke or not is irrelevant. Look within yourself and you will know the truth. Sin is a requirement because it is anti-perfection. Matter, anti-matter. But it is not something you can pin down because it is relative to what what we are taught. Religions clash for this very reason because sins are subjective.
(09 Jan '11, 18:49)
The Knights Alchemy
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The sin of allowing the egoic self to run our lives unchecked. Most of the worlds sins can be traced back to mans self destructive ego and our inability to occasionally step outside it and watch it for a while. Had i not read Tolles work i wouldnt have answered this question this way. But i have and this aspect of his reasoning makes sense. Although not all of it did. Graham Thanks Graham... That answer is surely one of the top-ranking tricksters... Of course, neither of us have that problem ;-) ... I think what I've been searching for has more to do with the phrase: "betraying the confidence of a confiding friend." That 'SIN' seems to cover just about all the bases: personal relationships, as well as our relationship with the divine (ex: the Judas betrayals)... Thanks for your support.
(07 Jan '11, 21:27)
The Prophet
Graham, I don't understand... You have such strong character and guts... Why have you taken up with a philosophy that's so rife with their dedication to irresponsibility...? Just curious
(09 Jan '11, 11:08)
The Prophet
Well Neil,ive not realy taken Tolles philosophy. I have just resonated with a great deal he says about the Egoic self.To be honest i never spend too much time woorying about the stuff that Tolle does.For me sins a subject i rarely consider. I would say the nearest philosophy i DO adhere to would be the teaching of Ester Hicks. However i will say that my philosophy has changed a great deal over the last 3 years. And i cant say that it may not change again.In fact i think it will evolve.
(09 Jan '11, 11:25)
Monty Riviera
Anyway, you have a wonderfully strong spirit -- and I can see that you enjoy doing right by everyone (even me) as soon as you can... I'm impressed that you are so quick to rise above the human (egoic) weaknesses that we all share... What do you do for work, if you don't mind me asking?
(09 Jan '11, 11:54)
The Prophet
I run a bespoke kitchen business Neil,although ive run a building company in years gone by ( quite a practical background). As for rising above my egoic self i must admit i dont ! I have taken Tolles advice and not fought with it. I have rather taken a metaphorical step back and watched it for a while. Just the awareness its there can help. I must confess i did enjoy Tolles work BUT after viewing him on U tube he does come accross as being a little eccentric and rather otherworldly. I much more enjoy Esther Hicks practical and down to earth approach.
(09 Jan '11, 14:30)
Monty Riviera
Custom kitchens...! That explains your strong spirit, and your ability to stick-to your guns... Don't apologize for having a strong ego then -- being in a creative business myself, I know the absolute NECESSITY for ego-strength... I know we Yanks get accused of making too much of it -- but I'm inclined to believe that God (by any other name), is the actual source of our creativity.... Now I see why you've become such a leader in the InwardQuest world...
(09 Jan '11, 15:17)
The Prophet
Your very kind Neil but i would honestly say ive learnt more from this site than ive given. And im not saying that with any false modesty. I came on this site with a very closed mind. Ive learnt a great deal i would have laughed at a year ago. I seriously have done some massive about turns in my thinking. I will now listen to just about anything however foolish it appears at first. Ok i may examine it and then discard some ,most or all of it. I will agree that God/Source must be the font of all creativity. Were one after all.
(09 Jan '11, 15:40)
Monty Riviera
Well said Mr. Cook... I'll look forward to comparing notes with you on this experience in the future... Take care...
(09 Jan '11, 17:53)
The Prophet
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"sin" provides the Contrast (re Abe) which allows for reality as we perceive it. Where do you get this stuff?
(09 Jan '11, 11:28)
The Prophet
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transgression against the laws of the creators, there are none. Where do you get this stuff?
(09 Jan '11, 11:29)
The Prophet
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The worst sin of humanity is betrayal to yourself, your friends, and family, your leaders, and your country. It is because of betrayal we have Wars and Crime in general. It was betrayal to God that cause Eve to listen to Satan and lore Adam into committing the first sin in this world, and this sin is now past down from generation to generation! And the Bible has many such stories about betrayal. Jesus Christ was betrayed by one of his disciples after the last Supper and it lead up to his death on the Cross etc. Betrayal is still the number one of all sins in the world we live in today, it is both personal, and collective so nothing has changed drastically since Adam and Eve time, so we still have a long ways to go; because the Evil Power of Betrayal is Rampant, and is still lurking around the corner for it’s new victims even as we speak, to cause yet another betrayal of disaster, and to build a stronger army of evils doers, to corruption and to destroy all in it’s way!. Vee, the world needs to know more about you!
(08 Jan '11, 10:36)
The Prophet
I'm in tears... Much more
(08 Jan '11, 11:36)
The Prophet
@ Neil Roberts, thank you for the complements, and I would be most happy to share with the world! Do you have any suggestions?
(09 Jan '11, 04:04)
Inactive User ♦♦
Don't underestimate yourself.
(09 Jan '11, 10:58)
The Prophet
Did Jesus felt betrayed by Judas? Think about it.. you're the Son of Man AND the Son of God.. you KNOW that there is a Father in Heaven and that you're here to 'do his will'. He commited and surrended his life to live the way his Father has orchestrated for the betterment and growth of ALL creatures. So, after a whole life of living like a human, learning how to trust and surrender to the 'will of God', did he feel betrayed by Judas, saying that he felt betrayed by the one who created it for him, God his Father? And that the Father could do ANYTHING without a reason?
(09 Jan '11, 11:15)
wildlife
I totally understand your point, but I was not talking about Jesus Christ feelings, that would mean a whole new different topic, and question!
(10 Jan '11, 03:55)
Inactive User ♦♦
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The true definition of sin is to miss one's mark in life, it's a personal affair. No judgement, condemnation, crime or punishment fits. Unless of course, the censor hasn't reached this level of understanding, but hey, never give up :)
Eddie, maybe the 'mark' that you've chosen is not truly yours to do... Could it be that the sin you're referring to is the sin of making a 'self-determined' choice of one's mark in life... The only thing I would add to what Dee has said about the WORST sin is: "betraying the confidence of a confiding friend." ... I believe that's the answer that will give you everything you want in life.