For example during meditation?

And how do I over come it?

asked 20 Jan '11, 02:43

Back2Basics's gravatar image


edited 20 Jan '11, 06:49

Barry%20Allen's gravatar image

Barry Allen ♦♦

I was afraid because I was venturing into the world of the Unknown, the Nagual.

It is a really scary place to be when you have not cleared your current life.

As the Toltec Seers believed there are two parts in life -- the Tonal and the Nagual.

The Tonal is EVERYTHING that is known to us, EVERYTHING that is and has been experienced in one way or the other in the past.

To visualize.

Take a table and put many random items on it. You can put a plate to symbolize your family, a cup that is your job, a button which is all the unnatural and bizarre experiences you have ever had. You can fill that table to the broom, because you have experienced so much that you're probably not even aware of the most of it.

But that's not important. What is important for me, is that when you start on this spirtual journey and self-improvement the items on your table are scattered everywhere on the table without any coherent way.

It's because we have been taught not to reflect on our actions and repercussions that they bring, so the clamor and garbage accumulates that we sometimes find it hard to find what it is that we're looking for.

So the lions part of the work is to free your energy from the clamor and start re-arranging the things on the table in a way that you know exactly where things are and how they got there.

In this way you will make room for the Unknown, the Nagual.

The Nagual is EVERYTHING that is under the table. It is EVERYTHING that we have never seen, heard or experienced before.

For example, it might be that the information about the existence of the Tonal and Nagual is new to you and it's the first time it has been revealed to you in a state of normal awareness. So, right until this point, that information was in the Nagual, but now, since you know it exists, it is in your Tonal.

Now what you need to do is to classify that information in you want and see where it fits on the table.

So every time you venture into the Unknown, meaning have some sort of experience that you've never had before, that is unrpecedented, that envoked feelings beyond description, you have encountered the Unknown (Nagual). You more often than not do it in the state of Hightened Awareness or Second Attention like the Seers like to call it.

So, to make it into the Known (Tonal) you need to re-member those experiences in the First Attention or our Normal Awareness.

That's why most people have trouble to re-member their dreams, because dreams are the part of the Nagual and to really take control of them (have lucid dreams for example), takes a lot of will and determination.

What we are all doing is trying to gather enough experiences of the Nagual so we won't be so freaking scared of it all of the time.

I did a lot of things personally, like lucid dreaming, multiple orgasms, smoking salvia divinorum, facing my old fears and doubts, and they were really scary experiences at first. They were exciting and I wanted more but with a sense of reserve and needing time to reciprocate from those experiences.

Now that I'm more and more aware and experienced in those 'travels' I'm able to recall and be aware of much than before and at the same time the fear is subsuquentially lesser.

But I still feel respect when it comes to the Nagual. You need really be sure of yourself to come in contact with that aspect of yourself, your personality.

So I believe that many Easters techniques, like yoga, meditation and so on have been designed to experience the Nagual, but it is the Western part of the teaching (psychology), that can make sense out of it.

If you can't make sense out of it you will end up in the nut shack, and if you don't know that this world exists you will live a dull and unimaginative existence.

So the thing that it comes to is TRUST. Trust yourself that you can't hurt yourself and that you will always take care of yourself, no matter what.

Don't be scared of those experiences, seek for them, but don't be too haphazard. Make two steps to the front and than one step back and you will be alright.

I know this information might stir some people and start being afraid saying -- 'Uuu, so there's SOMETHING there that wants to get me! I better stay outt of their!'

Of course you can, but you will never be complete that way, because our goal is INTEGRATION of ALL aspects of our being, ALL possibilities, ALL realities that we can come up with.

But it has all been set up in a way that we all can take our own time and we don't have to be afraid of missing anything. It's your growth, your process and when you feel your ready you go forward, in you don't, you move back for a while, simple as that.

So in essence it is all about trusting yourself and believing that you actually are the Creator of your destiny and you are and active participator in the creation called Your life. Take advantage of that and make it into the most exciting journey you can ever imagine!


answered 20 Jan '11, 08:17

wildlife's gravatar image


We tend to fear what we do not yet understand. Try to investigate what will happen when you "stop thinking".



answered 20 Jan '11, 02:56

jim%2010's gravatar image

jim 10

You apparently identify with your own thoughts, and so the idea of stilling those thoughts feels like death. It is the same fear that some people have of being alone.

To overcome it, just know that you will still be here after the meditation is over. You can always go back to your "real" life.

I think, therefore I am. - René Descartes


answered 20 Jan '11, 03:07

Vesuvius's gravatar image


For this I thought that Descartes was mistaken. When I do not think...I STILL am!

(20 Jan '11, 03:13) jim 10

@Alcibiades: Exactly my point.

(20 Jan '11, 17:02) Vesuvius

As long as you do not stop breathing, you will be fine. It is okay to quiet the mind and silent the mind chattering!


answered 22 Jan '11, 03:20

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Asked: 20 Jan '11, 02:43

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Last updated: 22 Jan '11, 03:20

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