Apparently, two noted physicists are speculating that something from the future is sabotaging the Large Hadron Collider to avert the disaster of observing "The God Particle" (Higgs boson).

Some quotes from an article in The New York Times:

A pair of otherwise distinguished physicists have suggested that the hypothesized Higgs boson, which physicists hope to produce with the collider, might be so abhorrent to nature that its creation would ripple backward through time and stop the collider before it could make one, like a time traveler who goes back in time to kill his grandfather.


While it is a paradox to go back in time and kill your grandfather, physicists agree there is no paradox if you go back in time and save him from being hit by a bus. In the case of the Higgs and the collider, it is as if something is going back in time to keep the universe from being hit by a bus. Although just why the Higgs would be a catastrophe is not clear. If we knew, presumably, we wouldn’t be trying to make one.

Anyone have a spirituality, reality-creation (or other) viewpoint on this?

asked 13 Dec '09, 14:42

Stingray's gravatar image


edited 13 Dec '09, 18:23

Barry%20Allen's gravatar image

Barry Allen ♦♦

Quite a concrete question sticking out of the usual abstractness here at IQ. ;-)

Like with any other grandfather paradoxon-like effects, we know there are certain interpretations of quantum mechanics that can resolve such conflicts, for example:

A) Hugh Everett's Many-World interpretation: A man goes back in time and kills his grandfather. How could he have been born at all then? Easily, by doing so he merely created just another timeline or parallel universe where he is not born at all. His own existence and his original timeline remains unaffected. Similarly, in one of the future worlds the LHC will successfully be fired up. We can now only speculate as to why the created particles don't like the LHCs in the other universes like ours, but they decided to go and sabotage them there. ;-) Maybe it's just because there is some multi-dimensional equation that has to be balanced after all.

B) Copenhagen interpretation: There is only one world. The relationship between things like the grandfather and the son or the LHC and its not yet found particles has to be seen as one entangled object. If we visualize our spacetime structure as flatland, this entangled object has to be seen as some kind of self-contained entity or loopline that cannot be corrupted or destroyed. If someone tries, they would experience all kinds of strange effects that would hinder them in fulfilling their mission. The nature of the "accident" that will finally manifest may seem random and magical to us, but this it is at last merely chaos theory at work.

And so on, there are even more interpretations...

Now seriously, all metaphysics aside, concerning all those accidents at the LHC, I learnt from a physicist that their kind is a very peculiar and geeky one. ;-) Because there are no industry standard components yet for a not-quite-everyday-thing like the LHC, they simply have to improvise and tinker a lot, which they merrily do. However, due to their maverick nature, team communication isn't always the best, which adds to the risk that there are misunderstandings, so things may break. I guess we tax payers just have to be a bit patient with them. ;-)


answered 13 Dec '09, 19:12

herzmeister's gravatar image


edited 13 Dec '09, 19:53

Vesuvius's gravatar image


'God particle discovered, physicists say in an article dated thursday 14th march 2013

The Large Hadron Collider is the world's largest high-energy particle accelerator built by the European Organisation for nuclear research(CERN).

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CERN's atom smasher the large hadron collider that lies beneath the swiss-french border has been creating high energy collisions of protons to investigate how the universe came to be the way it is.



answered 18 Mar '13, 06:12

ru%20bis's gravatar image

ru bis

While reading through some of the comments to the article, I came across the following insightful reply which, though it doesn't answer the question directly, is I think still relevant to Inward Quest (and appears to have gone over the heads of most of the newspaper readers there).

While at college, I was already convinced that "thought", or "intelligence", or "consciousness", or "spirit", call it what you will, is the most fundamental particle in the Universe. I still hold to this belief. Call it "Sapience".

The main reason the LHC did not perform, IMHO, is that the scientific community is not mature enough to go about it the right way. Digging an enormous tunnel, pouring in tremendous resources, and expecting a scientific result (wouldn't that be utopian?) isn't quite the way. I think a bit of metaphysics might help, like from the philosophers (not the great ones, but the oddballs).

Think about it. What is our existence, apart from physical & mental sensation? It's mere "Thought". And it's based on Matter. Matter, as we all know, can be atomically vaporized into Energy. The primordial stuff of Existence, therefore, seems to be "Energy", as verbosely defined by many religions, philosophers, and thinkers. Extrapolating a level further, we can infer that Energy can be Condensed (as opposed to being vaporized) into "Thought", "Intelligence", "Consciousness", "Spirit", etc.

This, in my opinion, is where the LHC fails. It applies physical means to determine a logically cosmological truth - that the Universe is a Collective Intelligence (coming from Switzerland and France, this is ironic!) in a truly Jungian way. We, all creatures, "live" and "Think", and when we die, our pattern(s) of "Thought / Intelligence / Consciousness / Spirit" blend into the Collective Intelligence.

The Collective Intelligence is what we refer to as "God", and It (God) is a continually Evolving Totality. This, IMHO, is what God is, and what the Universe is all about.

The LHC is but a physical phenomenon.

Sanjeev, India


answered 13 Dec '09, 18:06

Stingray's gravatar image


edited 13 Dec '09, 18:12

Your answer makes me wonder why the scientific community didn't embrace the existence of Consciousness & use science to discover it. In other words, if all the scientists were to meditate as a part of training to be a scientist, then they would automatically incorporate what they have stumbled on within consciousness as an accompaniment to the existing, dare I say, lifeless, mode of scientific curiosity.

(13 Dec '09, 18:32) The Traveller

"The LHC is but a physical phenomena." No question about that. But isn't the sky as well? And don't we find beauty in the sky? The scientists that study these particles find limitless beauty in their work; it is far from being a lifeless endeavor. Given the strongly physical and mathematical nature of the work, why do we expect our physicists to be philosophers and shamen?

(13 Dec '09, 19:50) Vesuvius

Amazing this may be the bridge my teacher talked of that would bring the rejoining of Science and Metaphysics, like Science saying we have found this about the nature of reality and everyone in Metaphysics says welcome to what we have been teaching for millennias!

(14 Dec '09, 09:59) Wade Casaldi
showing 2 of 3 show 1 more comments

It's worth noting that the LHC is an evolutionary, rather than revolutionary machine. Several successful colliders have been built before it. The only fundamental difference between this one and the others is its ability to function at higher energies.

The LHC was built to confirm the existence of the Large Hadron, as described here. It is larger than any other particle accelerator ever built, because that is what is needed to produce the energies required to create the Large Hadron particle (if it exists).

When you build a collider in the shape of a ring, you have to balance your ability to speed up the particles to relativistic speeds against your ability to steer those particles around the ring. This steering requires enormously strong magnetic fields, which is why the LHC uses superconducting magnets. The larger the ring, the less strong these magnetic fields have to be (because the turn is gentler). The LHC measures 27 kilometres around its circumference.

The grandiose nature of the machine has clearly given rise to much speculation about it. But maybe there's nothing more to the machine than what it actually is, which is just a higher-energy supercollider looking for a higher-energy particle.

For those of you who are Star Trek fans, there is a "God Particle" episode in the Star Trek Voyager series called "The Omega Directive."


answered 13 Dec '09, 19:43

Vesuvius's gravatar image


edited 13 Dec '09, 20:03

If you go to this link:, and read it carefully- especially the endorsements of people like Stephen Hawking, you may find that there is nothing to be afraid of. Thank you, Vesuvius. Love and High Energy, Jai

(13 Dec '09, 20:17) Jaianniah

@jaianniah, Thanks for the most excellent link. Summarizing the link: The LHC models cosmic-ray interactions that already take place at the outermost edges of our atmosphere (and elsewhere in the universe). So if things like black holes that swallow the earth are possible, they would have already happened naturally a long time ago.

(13 Dec '09, 20:48) Vesuvius

It's a breathtakingly complex and exquisitely delicate machine. As one observer noted, "Perhaps the fact that it's the size of a small city might have something to do with its problems."

If people were sabotaging it from the future, wouldn't it be easier (especially from a reality-creation standpoint) to prevent the machine from being built in the first place, rather than waiting for it to become fully manifested?

I thought this viewpoint from one of the article's commenters was fun:

Any activity that changes a past event will trigger a change in the physical movement of the people who lived then. To be precise, spermatic fluid will be displaced. For example, all the people connected with the LHC and even those who have read of its problems will have shifted their physical positions.

The result? Children who would have been born won't be. Children who wouldn't have been born will be. Perhaps a girl rather than a boy, or perhaps a few months earlier or later. This in turn generates a cascade of similar changes affecting anyone who comes into contact with them (or fails to do so).

A similar effect can be expected from women, whose physical positions will later be altered at the time of conception (or non-conception).

Consequently, ANY time travel contact with past generations of Earth people or their habitat, constructs and so on will immediately terminate all future events, including the one that produced the individual who is going into the past. This could be a great explanation for all those UFOs that are visible for a short time, then suddenly disappear. Each of those UFOs could be the "first time" that a time-traveller has gone into Earth's past.

As for time travellers targeting the LHC, they would be better advised to reach back into the more distant past and zap the theoretical physicists whose original work formed the foundation for the LHC.

If the LHC is to be stopped (which I think it should be), it should be by people living here and now, not by assassins from the future.


answered 13 Dec '09, 16:46

Vesuvius's gravatar image


Wow that's deep. My mind is taking a journey of entertainment & discovery through your response. Thanks for sharing this viewpoint.

(13 Dec '09, 18:20) The Traveller

I just read everything, and think this could be the most important scientific discovery since the electron microscope! About this future changing the past stuff, it seems to me that probably their technology to time travel probably depended on the invention of this LHC thing.

Well on the other hand every time we get some technology or answer that can benefit the earth, government spends big money on using that to create new bigger and badder weapons. "Oh wait you mean with this thing I can destroy the world at the press of a button? Yes we need this to keep peace!" Ridiculous! What next the solar system, even the galaxy? "I'm warning you if you launch your nukes then we'll just blow up the galaxy." That is what it seems like never enough fire power! It is too bad we couldn't put our technology to use in a non lethal way for defense and peace. I think it was Nicola Tesla that built a ray that could disable any machine for many miles, that was a peace weapon, no one could launch anything when that was on.

I think sadly we are not (as a race) spiritually advanced enough for our technology; too many still seek more and more ways to (in case ever needed) completely obliterate each other.

I remember hearing with Einstein's theory, we could have invented ways to feed the whole earth and ways to teleport, in other words many things to benefit earth. But what has history shown we decided to do with it? Build bigger and badder bombs to blow up countries with, (for just in case needed). So maybe this technology in the future is used to make some kind of super weapons that work at the level of direct reality creation and manipulation.

If that is the case we created some kind of super weapon, then actually used it, (after all what good is an unused weapon?) In this case I could see why we would come back to sabotage it from ever working, because we might have messed up the nature of existence itself!

Other than this being used for a weapon, it could benefit the human race probably immeasurably.


answered 13 Dec '09, 18:26

Wade%20Casaldi's gravatar image

Wade Casaldi

The charter for CERN specifically mandates that their work has no military-industrial concerns:

The Organization shall provide for collaboration among European States in nuclear research of a pure scientific and fundamental character (...). The Organization shall have no concern with work for military requirements and the results of its experimental and theoretical work shall be published or otherwise made generally available

(13 Dec '09, 19:39) Vesuvius

Thank God for that, someone was aware enough to say we don't want this becoming a weapon, maybe there is hope for the human race after all. :-D

(14 Dec '09, 09:48) Wade Casaldi

The measure of science and its progress coupled with what some call spirituality will soon be revealed to all.

This is the leading edge. And many theologists (ego) will not be pleased.


answered 25 Mar '11, 08:27

you's gravatar image


I heard a legend a decade or so ago that when they fire up these big colliders, there is a spate of particle detections before the experiment begins. The punch line is that these are high-energy particles from the experiment that have tunneled backward through time.

Has anyone else heard this one?

What would happen if, having detected the particles, the experimenters decided not to proceed with the collision?


answered 07 Apr '11, 00:41

axel%20bushing's gravatar image

axel bushing

lhc they are trying to create another universe another big bang! what is the problem with this universe? could they not go try that at the edge of the universe in case it goes out of hand? i just hope they fail so they do not succed and create another big bang in this universe! are we on the verge of another tower of babylon?


answered 14 May '11, 19:06

white%20tiger's gravatar image

white tiger

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Asked: 13 Dec '09, 14:42

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Last updated: 18 Mar '13, 06:12

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