[EDIT:] Thanks everyone for all of your advise, suggestions, feedback, input, and comments. I definitely have quite a lot to work with now, and so I'm going to focus on that for awhile. Thanks again. =)
Going to try to fight my natural urge to 'protect myself' through speaking in hypotheticals. One of my many 'defense mechanisms' that ultimately end up making me say/do something stupid.
Been trying to find a way to articulate this for quite some time now, still can't seem to find anything that 'fits', so I'm just gunna pick one example and run with it.
During normal interaction with anyone, my mind will be filled with thoughts that are extremely violent or grotesque in nature. Even with myself if I do something I deem stupid I will be filled with images of self mutilation. For some reason a popular form of imagery for self harm includes the concept of being curb stomped. Not by anyone in particular or even always involving other people, sometimes its just the idea of smiling and doing a face dive into a cement corner.
I suppose I should also clarify that these thoughts aren't from my conscious / logic trains of thoughts. They're like if a person was constantly interrupting a speech with chants or screaming. The speech of course being my normal thoughts, and the interruption being any number of very very bad things. I can't block them out, though most often I can still operate normally without them interfering too much if at all. It's just like they sit in the back of my mind and I can't make them leave.
The thoughts of self mutilation don't really bother me, because I figure it has something to do with my subconscious being ultra-critical of my actions, but I mentioned it for informational purposes. What concerns me is the level of ridiculousness in these thoughts towards others. The clearest way I can say it I guess is if you were to write a list of any evil thing you could do to someone (especially innocent people, or at least people who are innocent regarding their actions towards you) that would probably cover it.
Other things that may be relevant: I've tried three major 'reactions' to these thoughts. Ignoring them [pretending they aren't there] makes them stay there, trying to remove them or fight them often works but they return more often and more severe, and leaving them [not pretending they aren't there, just leaving them be] also just makes them stay.
I suppose this also might be relevant, I'm not socially awkward. At least not worth noting. I'm actually very good at talking to people, friends/strangers or anywhere in between. No history of violence, I'm actually a very passive person. Literally had a stranger run up and punch me in the face and not felt inclined to do anything about it. Under normal circumstances it takes huge amounts of antagonizing to get an emotional response from me, and even then there is an extremely strong chance that I will internalize the response and the person invoking it will never see it.
As far as "me" goes outside of my head, I'm actually pretty happy with myself. I mean, life can be a pain at times but to me that stuff is just a part of life. I've never really felt severely dissatisfied with anything else about myself, and when I am it's almost always from a perspective of "Well I don't like how I am in this category right now, but I can and always am working towards improving myself so that's OK".
It seems to go through phases, the primary determining point I haven't been able to figure out. There's a long list of things that exacerbate the situation, some dramatically. The list of things that help is short, and generally the amount they help will diminish over time and require additional effort each time for a lesser result. For example alcohol falls into both the 'helping' and 'hurting' categories, depending on my mood before I drink. Also it leaves me open to very rapid shifts from positive to negative, with very little if any provocation. Sleeping a short and consistent amount of time can help, but I have a lot of difficulty accomplishing that one.
Sometimes during the rougher periods it will actually be like there is a voice screaming in my head, deafeningly. Other times during good periods it'll seem as if it never happened.
I think I've gone on long enough.. Any input would be appreciated. I'd prefer responses stayed away from the sometimes common "You fix it by deciding to fix it and fixing it" style of responses, but if that's honestly the answer you feel inspired to write then I'd appreciate it all the same. Thanks in advance. =)
Does not work for me to ignore negative thoughts, nor to rationalize them. But I can replace them with Joy.
A personal dramatic example was when I visited a really neat older man who was in one of my Bible study groups. Brilliant and insightful. Had been a surgeon and taught heart surgery at a major medical college. Was a well-known psychiatrist. Founded a Christian counseling center. Read and spoke Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek and Latin. Was called upon to write articles for encyclopedias. When we were doing Biblical studies and he offered insights, everyone got out paper and began writing what he said.
I visited him at his home. His beautiful wife of 50 years brought us tea and cookies and left us alone to talk. He leaned toward me and spoke frankly, "Bill I have to tell you this, for 40 years I was a pederast. I was arrested, convicted and spent time in prison, my family, except for my wife has deserted me. My only close friends are in that Bible study group, most of them knew me 'before', but never speak of it. I can't even go there unless one of them brings me and I am under close watch by my wife or someone else 24/7. If you want to get up and leave, I will understand. I molested young boys."
Though I have no personal interest in homosexuality -- I consider myself "straight, but not narrow" -- I am ok with consenting adults who want to live that lifestyle, but child molesters, evoke very strong negative emotions in me. I feel it warps young minds.
He was so compartmentalized that no one had the slightest idea. He told me he could not seek counseling because the counselor would have had to report him and he would have lost everything. So he kept thinking he had cured himself, but then after years, he would have a relapse.
My first inclination was to put my hands around his skinny neck and squeeze hard! For me, child molesting is one of the most heinous crimes I can imagine, and here I sat across from a man who was one! But, dammit I liked and respected him! He had beautiful and fantastic insights. What he had done was, to me, unforgivable! But he was, up until this instance, my dear friend!
Emotions boiling within, I tried to somehow justify this past behavior involving young boys. I could not then and never asked details. But I said, "Wasn't this behavior between a man and boy considered a "Rite of Passage" in ancient Greece and Samoa?" In my rabid desire to find something to rationalize this behavior, I scarce knew what words I uttered.
But he wasn't giving me that out. He responded, "No, Bill, this has never been acceptable adult behavior in any society. There were rites of passage, but any adult who developed a long term addictive behavior of pederasty was shunned."
Sometimes it seems that God rolls a bowing ball down my alley. I didn't like it then, and I don't like it now. I am very thankful that this bowling ball is stationary in my life as of late!
As Christians we are called upon to forgive. But I have never read that we are called upon to forget. I told him that I wanted his fellowship, his friendship, his knowledge and understanding, but if I ever had an inkling of another 'relapse', I would be at the head of the line to turn him in! He calmly accepted that fact.
I admit it took some effort to look at him with love, but my perception of his sparkling insight overrode my negative feelings. I learned a lot and felt myself growing spiritually with our conversations which continued up until his death.
Was it denial? As Abraham said, "I certainly hope so!' (Love that phrase). Did I deny his past? Yes. I filled my vision of him so full of his good qualities, of the things I learned, of the incredible value we shared that my feelings stayed positive. We never discussed the 'subject' again.
Everyone has a full bowl of life. In order to add to that bowl, some things MUST slop over the sides and no longer be part of that life. My only real work is on myself. Money, power, things flow freely to me as long as I continue to fill my bowl with light, with joy, with beauty.
Once I took a mental visualized pressure washer to the darkness, the dirt, the smelly nasty things in my bowl. But it simply did not work! I can't fight against negatives, it only amplifies, makes them bigger and more powerful!
My memories of my friend are full of the light our conversations brought into my life. Of the new, vibrant directions his - my, OUR mutual insights brought. And I know he felt the same way. I had and have many things in my psyche of which I am not happy. He knew this, but I think he saw the beauty in me, in our melding and he enjoyed the conversations.
As we look for the good in situations, we shine a spotlight on them and we and others can see good, the beautiful -- and it is ALWAYS there if you look for it!! ALWAYS!
So fill your bowl with light, with life affirming joy, if you see a negative situation, immediately focus on "What's good about this situation?" and keep asking yourself until you find that good. And I promise you that you will find it and it will change your life. It did and does change mine. Yes, @ele and others, I am joyful -- it is not that hard, but it takes working on yourSelf.
March 15th 2012: I Edited my answer with more personal information from my past
How may I rid myself of subconscious violent, hateful, grotesque thoughts?
Now that's an interesting question with an interesting problem.
Many of us, who have been here from the start, probably will stop short of giving you actual advice that you can apply to your situation on this forum because we can't afford to put this forum at risk with ill advice that will put your life at risk.
When you post the type of question that is considered the exclusive domain of psychiatry and the medical profession, even if we could give you a "non-approved" solution, we have to throw in the "you must seek professional help" just to keep someone, not as astute as yourself, from taking that advice and blaming the forum for the consequences.
Having said that, my instincts tell me that much of this question is designed to engage us into a "call to action" of sorts, to reveal the breadth and depth of the capability of those like ourselves to give "potentially ill advice" to someone seeking genuine help.
If I am wrong about the above statement, my sincere apologies to you on trusting my instincts.
So let me also start with the disclaimer that if you are genuinely in need of help to contain issues of rage and anger, this may not be the place to seek such help.
Besides, if this is the approach that you want to take (inward quest type of solution) in solving your problem, there are plenty of wonderful well researched authors out there, whose books can be found in any good local bookstore.
Or just watch a few episodes of Oprah and you will be well on your way.
I originally wanted to give you a long and well thought out answer on the point that is about to follow, but after pondering upon it (since you put up this question) I realize that you are quite capable of comprehending and figuring out the details of "how to" by your own effort.
"Anything worth knowing takes effort"
Basically the problem you have is associated with "consciousness"
You have two choices.
Go to a professional or work on yourself (which is what you do when you do go to a professional)
If you are going to work on yourself realize that you are back to step 1 and that is, the problem is associated with consciousness.
Learn to engage and dis-engage you consciousness at will.
And you will be free of your problem.
You ask "How do I do that?"
Teach yourself (learn) to stop your thought; "Some people refer to it as meditation"
OK, let me put it this way,
To build up body strength, so that you can participate in physically demanding activities, you go to the gym and pump iron.
It's not the most exciting activity, but you are interested in the result.
Meditation will not be the most exciting activity and you won't even know what the result is supposed to be like. (Because you can't see it like you can see the muscles of someone who exercises daily)
If all that you are doing is meditating every day and you don't translate that understanding to your "wakeful" state, you will be left wondering; "what beneficial result am I supposed to experience from it?"
You see, meditation at the initial stages immediately brings relief to the otherwise busy and burdened consciousness, often giving you a glimpse to the sweet experience of inner silence.
But you have to be busy and burdened to experience this benefit.
Fortunately, that alone is more than enough for most people if they translate that understanding and state of mind to day-to-day situations.
Between the novice and the enlightened master there are various beneficial states of meditation.
We are only interested in the very basic and beginning stages of meditation for this exercise.
And that is to "STOP THINKING"
Now here is the common misunderstanding.
You are NOT doing this to learn to "Not think"
You are doing it to learn how to dis-engage from consciousness.
Now here is the long explanation part that I have chosen to omit because I know that you are intelligent enough to do your own research on why you must learn to dis-engage from consciousness.
When you are able to maintain "inner silence" you are able to experience the relief upon your spirit and psyche as a result of being free from the burden of constant thought.
So not only must you make much initial effort in meditation just to understand and experience this "inner silence", but you must continue to do some (even a little bit) meditation every day to keep in touch with the technique of reaching inner silence.
Once you are able to reach this state of silence effortlessly, which anybody can do within a couple of days, or a week, you can translate that ability and understanding to your "wakeful" and "fully engaged" day-to-day existence as you need it.
When do you need it?
You need it at any time during which you want to observe your consciousness from a second person perspective.
From your question, you have already demonstrated that you are fully capable of already observing yourself from a second person perspective.
As you learn to reach inner silence at will, bring that understanding and ability into the mix as you observe your mind engaging in thoughts that are NOT of your own choosing.
In other words, RECOGNIZE IT AND REFUSE TO ENGAGE IT.
All that meditation stuff is just so that you can understand and learn how to accomplish the above sentence.
Those thoughts are part of an addictive behavior that we are all suffering from.
It is not our choosing to be burdened with this behavior, it is more appropriate to say that we suffer from it.
It is this that makes us look forward to an accident at the Indy 500.
It is this that makes us slow down to see what happened at the accident on the street.
It is this that makes us secretly desire to listen to gossip about those we know.
It is this that makes us enjoy action, thriller and horror movies.
It is an addiction to an emotional response that releases certain chemicals in the body and certain energies in the pineal gland.
Its release has other dimensional consequences. (Lower astral as well as higher)
You can do your research on what the hell I am talking about as I am not going to engage in a conversation about it (because research will take you there and you only need my input to verify if you have hit your target; and to that I say to you "trust yourself").
So to summarize, my only advice to you is, "learn to dis-engage from consciousness at will” and you will be free of this problem.
This, however, will take effort on your part and time that you will have to find for daily application towards this effort.
If you don't have this time nor the willingness to put forth the effort, you may have to lean on "professional help" until you are able to realize that the problem is one of "participation" in consciousness of a particular nature, where the choice to do so actually exists within yourself, but this choice has become un-conscious, addictive and pleasurable.
All activity of intensity in consciousness activates the pleasure center.
Intensely loving imagery is just as powerful as intensely evil and sadistic imagery (until you raise the vibration further and further from the lower astral)
(Remember that I used the word "powerful" deliberately because I think it is irresponsible of me to use the word "pleasurable" and you are smart enough to understand how that sentence should have been written)
Also that statement about raising your vibration from the lower astral is actually somewhat misleading because you simultaneously exist in all the dimensions, so you are not really raising yourself from one place to another, but rather by raising your vibration, your engagement of attention shifts from a predominantly lower vibrational entity engagement to a vibrationally higher entity engagement.
Or to put it another way, instead of keeping company with the devil (mentioned in the bible) you start keeping company with the angels (mentioned in the bible).
All intensity in consciousness activates a glandular response and releases chemicals that create addiction.
Most people are not open minded enough to look at themselves and study their inner behavior without judgment.
We are all capable of incredible Love and incredible evil.
Repeated exposure of any imagery through books, movies, TV, News etc. create a certain addictive void that needs to be filled with more and more of the same stimuli.
The only way to break free from the "inner void of attraction" that is a result of this continuous external stimuli is by learning how to dis-engage the reaction to the stimuli.
Inner silence is the only thing that can do it in the absence of all other available methods.
I am speaking from experience.
My addiction was in the form of continuous apathy and helplessness, in the suffering of which I found much comfort till I found myself seeking just enough courage to commit suicide.
My misery was my addiction and my comfort.
I was victimized in my childhood and that experience became my inner identity.
I felt special when I was in the midst of my suffering and would proudly state to my friends "you don't have the courage to walk in my footsteps because you won't be able to handle this much inner turmoil"
Every day I planned my suicide and found comfort in that as well.
Thank God that "miracles" do exist and they saved me time and time again from ending my life.
This beautiful thing called the "Sprit Within" kept me alive long enough until I began to surrender to its wisdom.
All the calls I remember making to the suicide hotline were useless in comparison to the confidence that was awakened within me in surrendering to the guidance of the inner wisdom.
Within you lies the greatest access to wisdom that is just right for you!
This inner wisdom intimately knows your needs and is capable of teaching you what you cannot learn by asking others.
But you have to follow the guidance that is given to you from within you (in doses that it knows that you can handle)
Then you must apply it and stop asking more and more questions.
If your inner wisdom says "try this meditation thing" then at that point, you must stop asking further questions until you try it.
I guess what I am saying is that 1 minute of actual mediation through your own physical effort is more beneficial to you that a million question you could ask on this forum.
But please don't stop asking questions!!! (I'm just trying to make a point)
By the way, the Matsyasana or the "Fish Posture" in yoga energizes and stimulates the pituitary and pineal glands relieving stress, mental agitation and emotional mood swings. (Do your research)
But if you are going to do that I suggest that you do all the yoga postures appropriate for your age group.
By the way, here's something from Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triune_brain
The white rabbit followed the first complex
I believe you should check into Avatar. Avatar is about exploring our beliefs until we find who we really are. The self hate comes from not liking who you think you should be, it comes from an expectation of a difference compared to who you really are.
The more we see our lack the more we hate ourselves. Our lacks are in reality comparisons to what we feel we should have or should be. It is like pouring a glass of Orange juice and being upset because it is not Apple juice in that glass. We set standards of what we should be and should have then feel lousy because we don't.
I can think of many standards to be upset over, I am not a millionaire wait no I am not a billionaire, I am not a famous celebrity, I don't travel world in my own personal jet, not as intelligent as Einstein, not as enlightened as the Buddha, etc... The list can go on and on of what I am not to the point of being ridiculous something off the wall like I am not Chinese as if that has anything to do with anything. But the fact is though I can take anything I am not or do not have and turn it into a disappointment. It is all my choice what I wish to be disappointed in myself over.
The fact is we are not anything we even have achieved. That is not us, we are far more base than that when we find our real selves we find we only need to be and everything else is desire but nothing to be disappointed in not being or doing.
Check out my answer here for more.
The first step is to be aware of it while it's happening. Then, look at that person who you are abusing in your mind and try to see them through God's eyes. Try to remember that they are a precious child of God. They are a precious child to their parents and other loved ones. Maybe you even love them. Change the image to one that is loving to you. Hug them, tell them you love them, how precious they are. Feel the love you have for them. Appreciate the fact that they are your friend, family, or whatever the relationship.
I know you said that it only bothered you when it is toward someone else, but it really is not healthy for you to direct it at yourself either. When it is directed at you, do the same thing as I said above. This might be a good way to turn your self hate into self love. Not narcisistic love. But the love that you were asking about. So, when you find yourself bashing yourself, stop. Look at yourself through God's loving eyes. See yourself as a precious child of God. As a precious child that is you. Embrace that you, hug that you and tell that you that you love him and how precious he really is to you and others. Tell that you how smart he is, or something pertinent to the current attack. You can rub his head, cradle him, whatever he needs to feel loved and safe.
Do this every time you catch yourself abusing yourself or others in your mind, and eventually the love response will come easier and easier until it is your first response. I have done something similar before and it really helped me and the person I was getting angry with. I haven't done it for myself because I don't abuse myself the same way. But I will figure out a way to work this in for me.
answered 12 Mar '12, 15:53
to rid any thoughts within
recognizing the potential
as long as we live in
answered 13 Mar '12, 17:04
This is the oldest battle known to man. It has been biblically recorded as inner demons. The great spiritual battle between Heaven and Hell that we are in the middle of. In this respect, as long as you do not become your inner demon you are safe from damnation. The plethora of thoughts are actually balanced to create a well balanced personality. The concentration of a thought can create an extremist that can be either good or bad. The brain is continuously developing thought(s) and is purposed to do so, as with each organ of our body having it's own purpose creating the entire being that we are. When a thought comes into focus, which is consciousness it acts as a smoke stack, relieving the brain of the idea. When a thought is suppressed the brain releases other thoughts until it finds an appropriate time to release the suppressed thought known as subconsciousness. This appropriate time of release normally happens during brain relaxation or sleep and becomes notably a nightmare. I am not concluding that thought suppression is bad, but all thoughts are made for the purpose of conscious release and whether you choose to suppress them or not, the brain will release them regardless of your efforts to suppress. The correct way to suppress a thought is to consciously acknowledge it and by doing so, diminishes the fear of it. Suppression is the aftermath not the afor-math. I believe that is enough for now.
answered 13 Mar '12, 11:21
@snow, I understand and if you will excuse me for a degree of levity, a snowball effect that can cumulate in a large problem. Once you open doors to negative situations, they can grow. Some people climb the Ladder of Inference. This is where we take a relatively minor event and grow it geometrically until it reaches a place in our minds that is life-threatening (in our minds). At this point we can go borderline (nuts).
Let me delve into my friend, again. He told me that pederasty was a very powerful illness and relapse was common. That is why he was under such scrutiny when he was paroled. He was a genius of human understanding and he had time to work on himself. I will share his work with you and IQ in the hope that others can benefit from it.
Rage, aberrant behavior, climbing the Ladder of Inference, is a cumulative process. You do not go from zero to a hundred in one leap. It may seem so to the casual observer. It may even seem so to yourself, however I assure you it is cumulative.
There reaches a point where people can go out of control and are unable to stop. But what happens before that point? What were you thinking before you go over the top? What were you thinking before that?
Can you determine what you were doing before you began having these negative thoughts? Before you fully opened that door? What was going on? Music playing? A particular place? A time of day? Other particular people present? Other environmental factors? Raining? Sunny? Cold? Warm? Hungry?
If you can find where you start climbing that ladder, you can take another direction. If you can find something beautiful in that ugliness, you can take another path.
I have and I still do remind myself of this fact. I am nowhere near perfect, but I am getting better. You are also. You have recognized and asked for help. That is Step 1, there are 11 more.
I need to start another thread.
snow my friend you double minded men. are you ready for the truth? here it comes to you you have a lack of harmony and balence in your self but this world have also a lack of harmony and balence. so you drink to help you cope with this it make your emotion come near the surface. but by having your emotion near the surface you react more strongly to what you think and feel because you are impaired. so you create more imbalence in your self and with other people around you. but you do not want to see it. you say i will take another drink and forget about it. but the fact is that you affect your enviromment and it affect you like it or not. when you will not have to drink to cope with it is when you will have reach a more proper balence and harmony level. and no i do not judge you for drinking you can experience anny thing you like you have free will after all. experience and enjoy.
answered 12 Mar '12, 15:37
Gooday. There is no such thing as grounding. Have you noticed that 90percent of healers using grounding etc are sick themselves. Energy works form inside to out, not out to in, you have to become one with the universal energies from the in to out, not trying to force the universal energies in. If you have been smoking dope and drank beer etc at the same time you have created in internal entity which has separated part into your unconscious mind and will drive you crazy. If you have not been on dope you have allowed an external entity into you. This can enter at a time when you have been very depressed etc. You can hug a million trees and it will not get rid of your problem. There are several methods of getting rid of the problem but without seeing you it is difficult for me to tell you which method to use. None of they doing things in bare feet, hugging trees or trying to force energies into you, that will usually make you worse.
answered 14 Mar '12, 02:08
It must realy be hell to have to go through that so consider yourself a good human being for not acting on those thoughts and give yourself a pat on the back.
There are a numer of reasons why this can happen and seeing that most people have negative thoughts it wouldn't be a problem but the fact that they are of a violent nature is worrying and should be delt with the sooner the better. It´s wonderful that you asked for help with this as it shows you are a responsible person taking the time to seek help and want a solution to this problem.
Aspergers syndrome or turrets syndrome can sometimes cause this problem and I'm sure there are other reasons but I'm not a professional and would sugest to you to seek professional help.
On the other hand I would even take the advice of Constantine and if all roads fail and you dont get your relief than you can't do worse than contact Reverend Bob Larson of the Spiritual Freedom Church International, in Scotsdale Arizona. You never know he might just be able to help.
Good luck and I hope you find a solution and peace of mind.
answered 14 Mar '12, 13:21
If these thoughts are coming to you as spontaneous reflex reactions, that means your brain has been conditioned to fire them as response to a trigger (a sensation, thought, circumstance, idea); or even as the default non-rational stream of consciousness (what you think when you are not actively thinking of something else). Once triggered there is a chain reaction keeping them going. What you need to do is retrain your mind. Try and find the source of these thoughts and replace them through focused repetition. Do you now or have you ever watched a lot of violent movies or video games?
answered 01 Feb '13, 20:21
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