What's the criteria?

Say, a brain dead patient. The heart is beating and the skin feels warm, but there is no response to words or touch and there is zero brain activity. So the body is still physically operating. But what does that mean? Does brain death mean we have fully left our physical body, or is the fact the physical body still lives mean there is still a shread of ourself linked to it?

Are we a part of the body, or is the body merely a vehicle? Is a living body nothing but a bag of bones and organs or are we more connected to it?

asked 06 Sep '12, 13:23

LapisLazuli's gravatar image

LapisLazuli
5.4k224

edited 08 Sep '12, 14:14

1

the dead are not alive and the living will not die.

Jesus said, "This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away.

The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. During the days when you ate what is dead, you made it come alive. When you are in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one, you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?"

http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html

(06 Sep '12, 19:20) white tiger
1

Thanks WT :)

(06 Sep '12, 23:40) LapisLazuli
1

lapislazuli, possibly the spirit is the active seed of the human being, with developing capabilities as does a body. the body allowing the spirit to experience and become more aware. the body though finite does deteriorate while the enhanced spirit continues its journey.

(20 Sep '12, 20:54) fred

@fred That idea makes a lot of sense. Thank you

(26 Sep '12, 22:09) LapisLazuli
showing 1 of 4 show 3 more comments

http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html

Hi everyone, first timer. I want to share Dr. Jill being a scientist. Her life's experiencing her own stroke and how the brain works! Hope it helps!

link

answered 07 Sep '12, 07:06

Aztiram's gravatar image

Aztiram
13116

Thanks! I wont get a chance to watch it until later tonight, but I will get to it:) welcome to IQ!

(07 Sep '12, 13:04) LapisLazuli

Gracias! Please if you can share your perspective on Dr. Jill testimony. Interesting.....

(07 Sep '12, 19:45) Aztiram

@Aztiram Wow! That was so interesting! Thank you for sharing that. That was really helpful. The way she described her relationship to her body and mind made a lot of sense to me. I liked that she called it "la la land". Haha. I love her descriptions of what she felt... amazing. Made me feel peaceful about the idea of death. Thanks again!

(08 Sep '12, 12:25) LapisLazuli

Thank you for sharing that. I watched it awhile ago. It gave me ideas and inspired theories about autism and schitzophrenia.

(19 Sep '12, 10:13) Fairy Princess
showing 2 of 4 show 2 more comments

Hi Lapislazuli

I was just reading about this lately from QUEST FOR TRUTH by Bashar. Hope it helps

Leaving Your Body

Q: When people are experiencing a great deal of physical pain, I notice that they forget. It's like their soul leaves because there is so much trauma. Wheredo they go?

BASHAR: Generally speaking, you expand your consciousness into what you would call the "astral" or "ethereal" realms.

Q: And if and when we are able to reincorporate with the body, then we comeback? Do we ever leave a little piece of us flying out there somewhere?

BASHAR: All right. From one perspective I will say that is actually a very fair question.First of all, the question of leaving your body is not literally "leaving" your body.Your consciousness is not "in" your body; your "body" is in your consciousness.You expand beyond the concept of your body momentarily, but from the physical perspective you say, "I'm leaving my body."

The idea is that your oversoul, your higher self, is already "out there"—it's already expanded. You're just shifting your focus from this kind of focus to that kind of focus, momentarily.When you choose to reincorporate, to refocus, in a sense, yes, the experience has changed you. The expansive experience has changed you in a certain way and, in a manner of speaking, you do not quite come back the same way. So it could be said you leave a little bit of yourself "out there." You are different.

link
This answer is marked "community wiki".

answered 06 Sep '12, 14:51

Satori's gravatar image

Satori
2.1k2095

2

"Your consciousness is not "in" your body; your "body" is in your consciousness." That makes a lot of sense to me. Thank you. I love Bashar

(06 Sep '12, 15:13) LapisLazuli

@LapisLazuli- Your welcome, glad it helped:)

(07 Sep '12, 07:26) Satori
1

@Satori- You've changed and evolved like a Hercules on IQ here....You're becoming a teacher (at least to me). Good posts these days, and yes, Bashar is one funny dude.

(07 Sep '12, 10:58) Nikulas

@Nikulas- Feel the love in the room:) Thank you very much Nikulas, but you are the real Hercules here :)

(07 Sep '12, 14:29) Satori
showing 2 of 4 show 2 more comments

There is no Death. Life is all there ever is for life is everlasting. Our body is a vehicle for our spirit.

There is transition from spirit to form, when we get born into our bodies, and from form to spirit when we leave our bodies but we are always alive for we are always spirit in or out of the body.

In brain death it simply means the brain is no longer functioning and therefore the person can't be conscious of his earthly life. He is not conscious of it in his body but it doesn't mean life doesn't exist.

link

answered 06 Sep '12, 18:53

Paulina%201's gravatar image

Paulina 1
9.1k522

edited 06 Sep '12, 18:57

the dead are not alive and the living will not die. Jesus said, "This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away. The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. During the days when you ate what is dead, you made it come alive. When you are in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one, you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?"

http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html

(06 Sep '12, 19:23) white tiger
1

Thank you, life is truly everlasting :)

(06 Sep '12, 23:44) LapisLazuli

To some people, some are dead even when they are still walking the planet. To others, some may be never die.

So really, where's the criteria.

If a brain is dead, how can we know it's not alive in ways we don't know of. And what do you mean by "soul has left the body". Soul is existence and so is the body. Existence may change its form, but it will never leave any part of itself.

But from physical world point of view, if that brain dead patient, Joe, is someone you knew. Then the person you knew is gone. For the existence of him is no longer present in the form you were aware of and perhaps used to hang out with. The idea of him, is now different. The idea of Joe is no longer here. It has transformed to another idea of existence.

You may still want to keep the idea alive in your memories if it comforts you, but the idea of Joe will always be alive, for the existence will never forget it. It is forever on part of it.

link

answered 06 Sep '12, 13:58

CalonLan's gravatar image

CalonLan
(suspended)

edited 06 Sep '12, 13:59

"And what do you mean by "soul has left the body". Soul is existence and so is the body." This is the one part I do not grasp. I agree with what you said about how they both exist and change form. The body and spirit both morph in different ways but I guess in a way never vanish, just always changing. But my confusion is the connection. Are we our body?

I agree with everything else you said... thanks.

(06 Sep '12, 14:11) LapisLazuli

@LapisLazuli, well, when you lose a hand, your body physically loses some part of itself. But the soul remain intact. And it really depends on what you define as "we". We as existence, we as "our" soul, we as the synchronicity between our body and soul. Who are we anyway.

To me, body is we, that allows we of soul to experience we of physical world "around" (because we are it all, so it's really within) us.

I know it doesn't answer the question in the perspective you are asking it from....

(06 Sep '12, 14:26) CalonLan

...but any way you look at it, it's just a perspective. And regardless of what perspective you choose to see this question and answer through, it will always be just one of imperfect and incomplete possibilities of the truth. :)

(06 Sep '12, 14:28) CalonLan

Thanks. :)

(06 Sep '12, 23:40) LapisLazuli
showing 2 of 4 show 2 more comments

If you are saying that the patient is brain dead, then they are breathing with the help of a ventilator because if the patient is brain dead, then even the part of the brain that controls the breathing and subsequently provides the heart with the oxygen necessary to beat would not function.

Our brain is the connection to the higher self and therefore, I would say that if a patient is brain dead, that is the end of life and the consciousness (or soul if that makes more sense to you) has already left the body.

link

answered 06 Sep '12, 14:35

Pink%20Diamond's gravatar image

Pink Diamond
28.9k52674

edited 06 Sep '12, 14:37

Thank you Pink Diamond. Yes, with life support keeping the body alive. I wasn't sure if by the body being alive if it meant there was still a part of the person alive or conscious, in a way.

(06 Sep '12, 15:15) LapisLazuli

In the seth material it says that when u are "alive" u are in fact more dead than u are after life. Listen to this, it is sooooo interesting about life transitioning into death.

Love n light

rob

http://tinyurl.com/9pyennq

link

answered 06 Sep '12, 17:39

TReb%20Bor%20yit-NE's gravatar image

TReb Bor yit-NE
13.9k1469

edited 06 Sep '12, 17:50

the dead are not alive and the living will not die. Jesus said, "This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away. The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. During the days when you ate what is dead, you made it come alive. When you are in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one, you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?"

http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html

(06 Sep '12, 19:22) white tiger

Thank you very much for the link! Good ole Seth, just when I need him :o)

(06 Sep '12, 23:41) LapisLazuli
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Asked: 06 Sep '12, 13:23

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Last updated: 26 Sep '12, 22:09








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