IT has been said that we are members of soul groups and that before we are born we decide what lessons we need to learn. Why though would a person decide to be abused or tortured, and why would a person decide to abuse or be a torturer.

asked 30 Jun '10, 11:27

evelyn's gravatar image


edited 27 Aug '11, 12:25

Barry%20Allen's gravatar image

Barry Allen ♦♦

From "Illusions, the Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah" by Richard Bach:

"And a movie is like a lifetime, Don, is that right?"


Then why would anybody choose a bad lifetime, a horror movie?"

"They not only come to the horror movie for fun, they know it is going
to be a horror movie when they walk in," he said.

"But why?..."

"Do you like horror films?"


"Do you ever see them?"


"But some people spend a lot of money and time to see horror or soap-opera
problems that to other people are dull and boring?..." He left the question 
for me to answer.


"You don't have to see their films and they don't have to see yours.
That is called 'freedom.'"

"But why would anybody want to be horrified? Or bored?"

"Because they think they deserve it for horrifying somebody else, or
they like the excitement of horrification, or that boring is the way they think
films have to be. Can you believe that lots of people for reasons that are
very sound to them enjoy believing that they are helpless in their own films?
No you can't."

"No, I can't," I said.

"Until you understand that, you will wonder why some people are unhappy.
They are unhappy because they have chosen to be unhappy, and, Richard, that is
all right!"


"We are game-playing, fun-having creatures, we are the otters of the
universe. We cannot die, we cannot hurt ourselves any more than illusions on
the screen can be hurt. But we can believe we're hurt, in whatever agonizing
detail we want. We can believe we're victims, killed and killing, shuddered
around by good luck and bad luck."

"Many lifetimes?" I asked.

"How many movies have you seen?"


"Films about living on this planet, about living on other planets;
anything that's got space and time is all movie and all illusion," he said.
"But for a while we can learn a huge amount and have a lot of fun with our
illusions, can we not?"

"How far do you take this movie thing, Don?"

"How far do you want? You saw the film tonight partly because I wanted
to see it. Lots of people choose lifetimes because they enjoy doing things
together. The actors in the film tonight have played together in other films
before or after depends on which film you've seen first' or you can see them
at the same time on different screens. We buy tickets to these films, paying
admission by agreeing to believe in the reality of space and the reality of
time...Neither one is true, but anyone who doesn't want to pay that price
cannot appear on this planet, or in any space-time system at all."

"Are there some people who don't have any lifetimes at all in spacetime?"

"Are there some people who never go to movies?"

answered 30 Jun '10, 14:53

Vesuvius's gravatar image


edited 01 Jul '10, 02:29

What an appropriate excerpt for this question! - Greatttt answer!

(30 Jun '10, 16:27) Michaela

I love that part of Illusions!

(02 Jul '10, 14:53) BridgetJones09

Nice! thank you Vesuvius!

(10 Feb '11, 10:29) daniele

Didn't really notice this the first time around but it's such a great excerpt

(27 Aug '11, 15:07) Stingray

Great excerpt, but it sure does not make any real sense of this idea, nor the subsequent horrible lives of the tortured. It goes against all idea of "heaven is a good place". It comes from various psycho-babble books like the one you just quoted. You are running away from the fact that there is true and REAL EVIL that exists in our world, and it turns people into monsters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

(27 Aug '11, 17:01) Jaianniah

I find I must explain my point of view...I was tortured. I was abused> EVERYTHING in my soul cried out against this treatment. I gained absolutely no-thing from the experience, except a front-row view of EVIL hurting a little girl because it felt good. I REFUSE to believe I EVER EVER agreed to be treated this way as part of some "great education". I am sure the Holocaust survivors would agree with me. I SAW EVIL, AND IT WAS TERRIBLE TO BEHOLD.>>>>>>>>>>>>

(27 Aug '11, 17:38) Jaianniah
showing 2 of 6 show 4 more comments

Evelyn, as human beings we tend to judge every experience as either good or bad. The Soul can only experience what it is by experiencing what it is not. Hence the physical experience is an opportunity for the "Soul" to experience itself. From the soul's perspective there is no good or bad experience. Either one will lead it back to itself. Hope this makes sense to you.


answered 30 Jun '10, 23:06

Drham's gravatar image


I had just figured out that the first step is actually Indifference, this indifference is the gate to all the rest of the steps of this evil downfall.

I think it is because of separation feeling issues. If a person truly feels separate from all others, that is a start right there. Next we add a superiority feeling, so feeling separate and superior this leads to a lack of compassion because there is a lack of sympathy for others. Sort of like these statements "Rather them than me", "To bad for them", "It's their own fault", "That is their problem not mine", "I don't care about them, I have my own problems to deal with", "They deserve what they get" All of these are mean things to think or say and they all can lead to the next step.

Next step is wanting to get rid of, "Kick them out they are just ruining the town", "Who wants them", "They should go back where they came from", "They don't belong here", "They are not one of us", this leads to the next step of meanness.

"Let's do something about this", "Run them out of town", "Get them!", this leads to the next step.

Violence but not senseless violence this is "Justified violence" for all the mean reasons above backing up these terrible acts. The really sad thing is people not at this stage but someplace above may say "It's about time someone did something about these people invading our normal lives!"

Next step is mob mentality killings or acting alone depending on if these mean spirited people congregate together.

People can get so distanced and feel so separate that they laugh as they see atrocities, I still remember seeing on the news teens laugh and exclaiming "That was his head!" as they dragged a man to his death for being different from them! This is a very upsetting memory and thing to think on how cruel and heartless people can fall to.

The Romans in ancient times enjoyed watching the Christians thrown to the lions it was entertainment or they would not have done it because no one would have been around to watch. I saw on television families used to have picnics and watching hangings from a mountain top that overlooked a prison grounds someplace, I am sure that wasn't the only place. Witches used to be burned at the stake not someplace where no-one would see but right in town where everyone watched and wanted to be there some even wanted to help light the fires!

We saw this happen again and again with massive Genocides, here in America, Germany, Africa, Russia the list goes on more than I know. But the underlying unifying principle is we are better than them, they are not one of us, they don't deserve what we have. In short a belief in separateness and superiority mixed with self righteous adoration toward those different.


answered 27 Aug '11, 16:25

Wade%20Casaldi's gravatar image

Wade Casaldi

edited 27 Aug '11, 19:25

Wade, +I for such an erudite and well-written REAL answer that explains, step by step, how people become a mob. See Maria's wonderful answer at this link: Actually, despite the great answers here and at that question, the whole thing is still a great mystery to me! Love,>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

(27 Aug '11, 16:54) Jaianniah

each one as different lesson to learn. and every one as free will. when the life in this world start you do not remember why or what choice you made for this life time.some will be last and will be first.some will be first and will be last. so we all have different things to learn to grow. and what you do to other comes back to you. look at jesus he set example and they killed him. well those killer will also get killed if it happens in the next life time will they know why it happens? did they not enjoy torturing and killing someone? well now they will understand what they have done. and hopefully they will stop doing that to others. experience and enjoy.


answered 27 Aug '11, 03:56

white%20tiger's gravatar image

white tiger

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Asked: 30 Jun '10, 11:27

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Last updated: 27 Aug '11, 19:25

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