Just been re reading Eckhart Tolles the power of now. He maintains that a cessation of thought some how increases awareness or consciousness. Im on the fence with this one, what do you think?

asked 09 Jan '13, 05:23

Monty%20Riviera's gravatar image

Monty Riviera


@Monty Riviera This is one for the Big Hitters (@The Traveller - this is a great question for your skill set) but when I've tried it I definitely get some sort of feeling of peace. I think Frank Kinslow (The Secret of Instant Healing) calls it Eu feeling. The only way is to try it Monty ... if we don't see you again, I'll assume you have ascended!

(09 Jan '13, 06:34) Catherine

@Catherine "if we don't see you again, I'll assume you have ascended!" hahahaha :D

(09 Jan '13, 06:56) releaser99

It doesn't @Monty Riviera. Do you know why a man receives higher consciousness? A man receives higher consciousness as the result of evolution, it is not received as a result of a desperate need of man to grow bigger than him self. This is the secret of Alchemy. Man within himself transmutes knowledge to wisdom. It cannot be obtained by a shortcut. Can a monkey jump from its natural evolved state to a human being's evolved state? neither can we jump from simple Joe to the state of Eckhart.

(09 Jan '13, 07:12) mastermind2

@Monty Riviera: good too see you!

(09 Jan '13, 07:31) ursixx

But my point is mastermind that the simple Joe WAS Eckhart! HES the one that believes his no thought brought this about.I do tend to agree with your sentiments and i do see the evolving thing.

(09 Jan '13, 07:37) Monty Riviera

Thanx ursixx...nice to be back for a bit

(09 Jan '13, 07:41) Monty Riviera

"HES the one that believes his no thought brought this about" No monty. No thought state didn't bring that experience to him. It was mystical experience, where he experienced for a moment the feeling of the quiet mind. He experienced consciousness. It could be the result of many life time's effort. He could have been a Yogi in India in a past life! we cant say!

(09 Jan '13, 08:00) mastermind2

You cant bring consciousness by trying hard. No more than a tree can force a flower to blossom or a human can make a wound heal by affirmation. He can apply medicine to a wound, but he can heal it.

(09 Jan '13, 08:06) mastermind2

But mastermind2, if what your saying is true, and Eckharts experience is a result of a past life experience ( maybe) he does still maintain in his work that his no thought brought this about. Now i agree that he could be wrong and your scenario could very well be right, i happen to think there IS truth in this. BUT ...its not what Eckharts saying himself! Its certainly not what many would read into or get out of his book. But im very open to what you say...i realy am.

(09 Jan '13, 08:07) Monty Riviera

Monty even Dalai Lama made wrong decisions. (China Tibet issue) It could simply be that Eckhart interpreted the experience wrong. "he does still maintain in his work that his no thought brought this about." This is one of the reasons I personally believe, there is something fishy about the guy.

(09 Jan '13, 08:26) mastermind2

Yes mastermind2, i see your point. The issue that hes interpreting wrongly (maybe ) is a massive cornerstone of his work. My jury really is out on his teaching. He doesnt quite resonate with me the way Neville or Ester does. But i will keep an open mind.

(09 Jan '13, 16:03) Monty Riviera

@Monty Riviera I had this tug between the two schools of thought - Esther (thinking good feeling thoughts) v Eckhart (not thinking) - both are valid and I have to say that I use both techniques, depending on the circumstances. They both recommend living in the NOW and both recommend stilling thoughts using meditation. If I really stop thoughts, even for a few moments, I do get that feeling of deep peace. I don't think Eckhart Tolle is remotely "fishy". This is a good question btw.

(09 Jan '13, 16:42) Catherine

LOL...at anyone considering no thought fishy. made my day. :) Thus it's now complete and i can go to sleep.

(09 Jan '13, 17:37) CalonLan

@Catherine @CalonLan Asia has been a hub for spiritual sciences for the last 3000 years. Here, everyday a man comes claiming that he has seen god, or that he has become a Buddha or that he is the Maitreya Buddha. A few kilometers away from my house there's man who claims he is a messenger of Goddess Kali, he wears on his neck and hands 6 kilos of gold.

(10 Jan '13, 02:14) mastermind2

.. We've seen people like Eckhart, hundreds of times, they come and go, their disciples didn't get what they were promised. so when we see people claiming these strange ascends to the divine, it is natural for us to feel fishy. One question that bothers me is why the Greek philosophers who explored corners of the universe gave the world mathematics,geometry, chemistry and music never discovered these shortcuts to God.

(10 Jan '13, 02:19) mastermind2

@mastermind2, "He who boasts achieves nothing. He who brags will not endure." ... it must be truly the darkest place under the candle light. It's just another paradox of life that in one of the great places of the spiritual understanding, some people learn nothing of it. And are led astray by other intentions.

(10 Jan '13, 02:27) CalonLan

The man who wears 6 kilos of gold, washes his feet and let his disciples drink the dirty water as kind of a holy water. There are yogis in India who meditate on fire and beds of nails. Buddha broke through this none sense ideas. So did Jesus (The Righteous Indignation). I hope I wasn't offensive to your beliefs when I said I feel fishy about Eckhart, but to me, it really bothers me how he takes a silence of about 5 minutes before he answers a question..

(10 Jan '13, 02:27) mastermind2

@mastermind2, you were not offensive at all. I was commenting on state of no thoughts itself.

I have no beliefs about Eckhart, in fact I've heard about him only a few days ago. I'm open to listen to him or any guru or channeled being, but I kind of always stay with Buddha and Lao-Tzu. Those two were crazy, if compared to majority of people, but it's craziness that feels like home to me. :) And of course Osho for interpretations and comments. He's great too.

(10 Jan '13, 02:43) CalonLan

@CalonLan I'm apt to believe I'm ignorant in my decision. But do you think a man of Spiritual profundity, would advice people of lesser Spiritual development anything more than live good, be kind and do good? because spiritual profundity has nothing more than realizing the divine plan for all life, divine will for its creation. I mean giving a KEY to life? doesn't it feel fishy :. Wouldn't a man of great wisdom probably say something simple like this as a KEY to life:

(10 Jan '13, 02:43) mastermind2

"This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness."

(10 Jan '13, 02:43) mastermind2

@mastermind2, my experience is such that love defeats hatred every time. Or better to say, hatred defeats itself, because it fights and love doesn't fight, thus it cannot be defeated. But I'm not fan of outlining paths of living (eg. someone saying - help others, be kind, do good etc).

I would think man of Spiritual profundity would explain to people what love means. And let way of love find its paths in lives of people.

(10 Jan '13, 02:52) CalonLan

@Mastermind2 It is OKay not to agree on everything. You really add to this forum because you come at things with a different point of view ... I really like that. It can feel a bit contrived if we all just agree with each other (there is clearly no danger of that on IQ) and afterwards I did think Eckhart Tolle's initials are ET!

(10 Jan '13, 03:03) Catherine

@mastermind2, just like you don't tell water to flow in a certain way. Love is like water, let it take forms depending on forms it fills.

There are many people telling that only form of a jar is right or form of a box is right and should be followed. Fact is, water doesn't care for what form it takes. And so we'd be better off if we stopped focusing and forcing "forms" on the world and people, and let the water take any form it wants.

(10 Jan '13, 03:12) CalonLan

@Mastermind2 I don't think ET is promising instant enlightenment though - all he is saying is that here is a way to find inner peace and move beyond your ego. In moving beyond the ego you automatically stop all the ego nonsense and find yourself more loving towards others, more compassionate, more understanding. That's the theory of it anyway - it is a long journey for most of us but he is a wayshower. Of course it isn't the only way.

(10 Jan '13, 03:12) Catherine

@Catherine, "it is a long journey..." oh please. ;) It is a matter of seconds, but I guess even some seconds might seem as eternity. E.g. sitting in a dentist's chair. lol

(10 Jan '13, 03:17) CalonLan

@CalonLan Of course enlightenment can be instant but I get the impression from serious seekers on this forum and also my own experience that it feels like a journey - only my own impression, nothing more, nothing less.

(10 Jan '13, 03:34) Catherine

@Catherine, and your impression's right. All that seriousness stands in their way. Indeed it's a long one to overcome.

Being serious, is in a way being aggressive. Being serious, is acting as if it matters, or is important. Which is another way for trying to find meaning, sense to all of it and reasons to justify with. And the need to have a meaning is result of feeling lost and having none.

It's right there, be lost and without meaning and you'll be found and everything will make sense. :-D

(10 Jan '13, 03:43) CalonLan

@CalonLan So Cal how many of these "seconds" enlightenments do you need to make a one whole enlightenment? I mean one with effects that last more than a second or two. That gives a permanent placidity and tranquility? You are right, you are lost without meaning :P

(10 Jan '13, 04:21) mastermind2

@mastermind2, where does it says that enlightenment is permanent? ;)

(10 Jan '13, 04:34) CalonLan

@CalonLan You might want to see Wikepedia on Osho btw - great meditation processes but his life was kind of a mess. Give me Eckhart any day.

(10 Jan '13, 04:58) Catherine

@Catherine, I know nothing about his life. And I think it's best to keep it this way. So that when reading or listening to him, I'm not locked in a prison of judgement and prejudice.

If Buddha was a serial killer, would it make his understanding he left us with any more less than it is? Same goes for anyone.

Learning about other people's lives and memorizing facts and creating delusional perception of the person based on them is tiresome, bothering and unnecessary. :)

(10 Jan '13, 05:12) CalonLan

@CalonLan then you and I would have to disagree - for me, an enlightened person (one I would want to listen to) wouldn't be in a spiritual state where they would speak divisively.

(10 Jan '13, 06:28) Catherine

@Catherine, I meant to say prior to enlightenment. The history and the past, doesn't matter.

(10 Jan '13, 06:33) CalonLan

@CalonLan Agreed the past doesn't matter but imo moments of expanded consciousness is not the same thing as enlightenment.

(10 Jan '13, 07:51) Catherine

@Catherine, well who's to draw the line and say what's right anyway ; )

(10 Jan '13, 08:15) CalonLan

@CalonLan "moments of expanded consciousness is not the same thing as enlightenment." This is exactly what I wanted to say.

"well who's to draw the line and say what's right anyway" This is a nice argument. When you feel the ship sinking you break the pillars of logic and reason by attacking the basis where all logic stands. Niceee! I've been watching this trick this is the 2nd time I saw you use it! ;)

(10 Jan '13, 09:11) mastermind2

@CalonLan Cal my analysis about Eckhart is completely based on Behavioral Psychology. Its not prejudice or judgement of a negative kind. Its his behavior which arouse suspicion in me. Like Bush talking about 9/11 and showing a brief microexpression of happiness in his face! You cant see it, and those who see it don't speak about it!

(10 Jan '13, 09:16) mastermind2

@CalonLan But the examples I gave you earlier was my way of getting down to the level of the listener to explain a problem. One of the first things to learn in criminal psychology is, when man acts beyond a certain level of normalcy, we must doubt him. It doesn't mean he's a criminal, it means he is hiding something.

(10 Jan '13, 09:21) mastermind2

@CalonLan Do you think a serial killer could jump to Buddha in the same life time that he was a serial killer? Well, if he some how fought for a 'no thought' state it is possible in your logic, right? What about the family who lost their members by the killer? If the killer came out next day as a Eckhart, then has the nature/God done the right thing? Suddenly bestowing peace and silence upon a man who destroyed peace and happiness of many other families?

(10 Jan '13, 09:32) mastermind2

Dalai Lama explains that serial killers would have to definitely be born as a cripple in the next life time and learn the value of 'life' which he destroyed in someone else.

(10 Jan '13, 09:37) mastermind2

@mastermind2, But of course, logic only create problems called arguments. Thus we're forever trapped in an eternal maze of trying to reason things out if we give into playing the game of logic.

With every argument that's created, its opposite enters into existence as well.

And you might be right, Eckhart might be hiding something. But I just listen to what he's got to say and see for myself. Perhaps because I don't feel the need to be happy, I'm not getting attached to his work so much.

(10 Jan '13, 09:54) CalonLan

@mastermind2, I'm open to idea of a beggar becoming a Buddha in the same life, just as I'm open to a serial killer becoming a Buddha.

It's called awakening, waking up from delusional state of being. Transcending boundaries of lies to reach the truth. Delusions are deeply rooted, and environment and society only strengthen them.

I see the possibility is available for anyone. But I understand not everyone is keen on abandoning security or the sense of reality they cling to.

(10 Jan '13, 10:18) CalonLan

@mastermind2, just like undressing yourself. Every piece of clothing is one of those lies that won't let you see the naked truth. You can take a piece off per life, and drop it down all in one.

(10 Jan '13, 10:20) CalonLan

@CalonLan I agree with what you say about reason and logic. But I don't agree that reason and logic is creating a maze that traps the beholder of reason and logic. Because it is reason and logic, that makes us question why are we here? who is God? what is life? - It is the same power that drove you to spirituality. To find answers to questions that reason bred.

This is called awakening..if you may: beggar is PAYING negative Karma, killer is MAKING negative Karma. Two very different cases.

(10 Jan '13, 10:37) mastermind2

@CalonLan "Transcending boundaries of lies to reach the truth. Delusions are deeply rooted, and environment and society only strengthen them." - This I agree.

"I see the possibility is available for anyone" - It is possible for anyone who is ready to change them selves to the better. A drunkard cant be a saint, without giving up his drinking habits. A serial killer cant be a saint just by conversion. This is the 'long journey'.

(10 Jan '13, 10:41) mastermind2

@mastermind2, yes it was logic and reason that has lead me to spirituality. The greatest mind's ability - thinking - will eventually lead it to its own demise - no thinking. It's a beautiful paradox.

(10 Jan '13, 10:42) CalonLan

@calonLan This is the secret behind the paradox: Faith is born when reason sinks exhausted ~ General Albert Pike. ;))))) It is indeed beautiful Cal!

(10 Jan '13, 10:52) mastermind2

@CalonLan "but I kind of always stay with Buddha and Lao-Tzu." I just saw this comment and some how I missed it :\ and I hope I was able to add something about Buddhism, to your ,already profound knowledge. Thank you for the discussion Cal!

(10 Jan '13, 11:05) mastermind2

@Barry Allen ♦♦ Can you please remove the image link I posted above. Thank you.

(10 Jan '13, 11:45) mastermind2

smoke some salvia divinorum it instantly will give you no thought, and when you are not ready for it because you didn't get there the sober and natural yoga way, it will scare the soul out of you and come back and try to define nothingness and all things at the same time existing at the same time. by the way salvia divinorum is more legal than cigarettes and alcohol.

(10 Jan '13, 23:39) deleterjoe

@mastermind2, it was my pleasure. :)

(11 Jan '13, 01:48) CalonLan
showing 0 of 51 show 51 more comments

I don't believe it... I know it! In fact everybody who meditates regularly knows it. Because meditation stops the thinking process.

I wrote something about meditation lately

The cause of all negative emotion is resistance.

What happens when you meditate? You distract yourself from your thoughts, you stop your thoughts. And when there are no thoughts in your mind, there can't be any resistance to any thought either.

So your vibration automatically raises to a place of love, which is your most natural and pure state. Consequently you feel good. It's like when you hold a cork (your thoughts) under water. If you let go of holding to it, the cork raises to the surface automatically.

@Satori shared a great link. Try it and experience a cessation of thought for yourself in the next minutes. You will see that you find peace, fulfillment and more consciousness immediately.

Edit: The guy in the video, Frank Kinslow, says that one can "experience at the vibrational level of angels and converse with disincarnate masters", when one does this technique for a longer period of time (1-2h)



answered 09 Jan '13, 06:34

releaser99's gravatar image


edited 09 Jan '13, 06:37

"Because meditation stops the thinking process." ? How could we accomplish anything if the mind stops thinking? I have great doubt whether people who don't seem to think and the results of their actions (example: Jackass movie?) have anything to do with spirituality.

"The cause of all negative emotion is resistance.", What do you mean? Does the night resist day?

(09 Jan '13, 07:19) mastermind2

You should meditate in the dawn. You will have a key to your inner light. Dont interpret it. Let the interpretation come to you.

(09 Jan '13, 07:36) mastermind2

So IF we died physically and didnt re incaarnate but became pure consciousness ( with no brain ) would we exist as being AWARE that we are...BUT with no thinking? Or would you say that consciousness or IS NESS can still think? Is awareness apart from thought, with thought...or perhaps a mixture of the two?

(09 Jan '13, 07:59) Monty Riviera

@Monty Riviera I believe that we would exist and be aware we are with the ability to think. But it's not thinking such as we know it. It is more like knowing without thinking. Thinking is a process to come a conclusion. There are no limits to know so you must not think to come to a conclusion. You simply know. And this is what most channelers and channeled beings from "the other side" tell us. I have experienced for myself many times that we are more than our thoughts just simply by meditating.

(09 Jan '13, 08:11) releaser99

I tend to agree Releaser, KNOWING WITHOUT THINKING....i like that.Not thinking such as we know it does resonate with me.I guess this does lead up to another couple of questions...what exactly is thinking...and what exactly is consciousness...

(09 Jan '13, 08:21) Monty Riviera

Those who experienced it, understand without knowing. Those who haven't, at least try to understand through knowing.

Experience of no thought cannot be brought about by thoughts. If you feel puzzled by what Eckhart said in his book - meditate.

For a few moments in my life, I've been there. What it was like? Beyond what words can ever describe.

(09 Jan '13, 10:07) CalonLan
showing 2 of 6 show 4 more comments

I was reminded of this quote of Krishnamurti

It is thought that creates the thinker
Thought and the thinker are one, but it is thought that creates the thinker, and without thought there is no thinker. So one has to be aware of the process of conditioning, which is thought; and when there is awareness of that process without choice, when there is no sense of resistance, when there is neither condemnation nor justification of what is observed, then we see that the mind is the centre of conflict. In understanding the mind and the ways of the mind, the conscious as well as the unconscious, through dreams, through every word, through every process of thought and action, the mind becomes extraordinarily quiet; and that tranquility of the mind is the beginning of wisdom. Wisdom cannot be bought, it cannot be learnt; it comes into being only when the mind is quiet, utterly still, not made still by compulsion, coercion, or discipline. Only when the mind is spontaneously silent is it possible to understand that which is beyond time.

The Collected Works, Vol. VI,206,Choiceless Awareness

and it's bring spontaneously silent that brings forth real changes


answered 09 Jan '13, 07:25

ursixx's gravatar image


100% agree with you :) thank you for your answer.. I bow my head to your understanding.

(10 Jan '13, 02:06) mastermind2

superbb..ursixx.., thank you for sharing this..:))

(11 Jan '13, 02:13) supergirl

Hello Monty Riviera ... once you experience the phenomenon all becomes clear ... just as when we walk, we know and feel we are walking, we are clearly walking ... cessation of thought is the process of calming the mental and by-passing the conscious mind that leads into an ultimate state of awareness ... the mantra "aum"

ffalt textff

has a powerful effect on the physical, mental, emotional and spiritual energies and helps to achieve it.

From a technical point of view we could say that we enter into harmony with and perceive our natural vibrational state within that is common to all humans, that itself is automatically in harmony with the whole of nature ... it is the heartbeat of the earth, the schumann resonance if you prefer. Humans, together with some animals, have the capacity to control brain frequencies by conscious thought, which enables us to become creators of our own environment :)

update 13 jan 2013

Yes, as clearly states releaser99, it is a state of knowing ... here is a guided meditation that reveals the pure genius of the entity Darryl Anka/Bashar, entity in the sense of entire being, symbolized by the circle

alt text


enjoy :)


answered 10 Jan '13, 05:10

blubird%20two's gravatar image

blubird two

edited 13 Jan '13, 09:08


Nice answer BB2

(10 Jan '13, 12:18) Monty Riviera

@bb2- i agree with u.., actualy true..

(11 Jan '13, 02:16) supergirl

@monty riviera i would not say that no though raises counciousness. but i would say to be aware of your though and discover the truth about them will raises your counciousness. but to be aware you must not be entangle in your though,meaning that you can control them see if it is true or not true in the big picture. if you are entangle in your though and emotion then the though and emotion control you and take you for the ride and you do not see or know where they lead you. you could call that being lead by ego: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9UCxRiTij0 but once you see the big picture you can decide if you let ego decide or if you decide. but if you are just lead then you all ready know who is taking you for the ride.

as for stopping or suppress though or emotion related to the though it is impossible, again what is possible is to experience them fully until the puzzle is solved the only place that you could say is no though or a mind with no mind is when the water and the light become one. when the water and the light become one all division are solved all puzzle are solved understand in truth,total harmony is achive the spirit having nothing more to solve with no more darkness and dualitty is ready to leave the flesh and go above in the kingdom of light.



answered 09 Jan '13, 05:48

white%20tiger's gravatar image

white tiger

edited 09 Jan '13, 22:36

I agree with the bit of your answer that places a premium on being AWARE of your thought processes. Im pretty sold on that one, just not sure that when we go into a period of no thought some larger or more powerfull stream of God awareness just suddenley comes rushing in to fill the void. Thats the main thrust of my question really.

(09 Jan '13, 06:22) Monty Riviera

@monty riviera do you agree that when you use a computer on different task you use more process and more power? what if you have many process still going on that you do not know about because they are not solved and you ignore them or supress them. should you not solve them and when solved they shoot down by them self? giving your computer less work load and more power,what do you think will happen when there is no more process to process?will you have reached a peek of full power?

(11 Jan '13, 02:46) white tiger

your computer is still the same but more effective is it not? well in your human body there is brain (computer) where the energy(spirit/light) that is you is siting and using the computer and that you is divided by duality and do not know the inner only the outer experience comming from the computer signal.sometime he even things that he is only the flesh. so what do you do to know your self? how do you find the truth?

(11 Jan '13, 02:59) white tiger

i have talk to you about earthly things but if you do not believe me,how will you ever believe me if i talk to you about heavenly things?i tell you again the truth will set you free.but you must strive to enter the narrow gate and not get lost on the wide gate of destruction.

(11 Jan '13, 03:08) white tiger
showing 2 of 4 show 2 more comments

it depends, do you think no thought was your souls original starting point or a neutral point for consciousness? if so than the only time your consciousness would be raised is if somehow you have become lower than your starting point.


answered 09 Jan '13, 22:50

deleterjoe's gravatar image


What I see from this is that he is talking about changing perspectives from experience to observation.

We can not be in the experience to know the experience, but we must be the observers of the experience to know the experience.

As we switch from, "I wonder" to "Ah!" We switch from thinking about to learning about.

If I walk through a park talking the whole time about how I love nature, I must not love it as much as talking about it. I just missed nature as we step out of the park.

So now take out the other person, we really don't need another to be distracted. Again I walk through the park but thinking the whole time how much I love nature maybe even reminiscing of things I remember, I step out of the park unaware I just missed everything!

When I walk through a park I walk as silently as I can and with no thought on my mind. I have had animals come right out of bushes towards me like, "Oops I didn't know you were there!" Rabbits, raccoons, beavers, ground hogs, squirrels, chipmunks, turtles, frogs and even deer came out that I got to see because I was silent and calm.


answered 13 Jan '13, 19:33

Wade%20Casaldi's gravatar image

Wade Casaldi

edited 13 Jan '13, 19:35

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