I was listening to Kevin Trudeau and he phrased the Law of Attraction in these simple terms: You get what you think about the most and with the most intensity, except for those things you don't believe you can get, because when you think about them your doubt is a signal to keep the thing away from you.

The advice he (and others) give to build trust is very general and in my opinion, extremely flawed. The advice is to start with something you believe you can get and build faith in the law. Well, the BIG flaw in that is this, if you already believe you can get something, getting it won't do anything to shift your expectations of what is and is not possible, unless that puts you in another context, which actually doesn't shift what is possible so much as it shifts how close and real the thing feels to you (before the Ferrari was possible but distant because there were too many steps between you and it, now you can just go and buy one).

So I'm not sure how to deal with doubt other than through analysis and observation. I've run into this problem of doubt making focus on what I want feel bad a lot and I haven't found a good, effective way to deal with it. My life has been filled with negativity and a sense of powerlessness/apathy because of this. When I say "feel bad" what I mean is simply this: I will think about what I want and feel good, depending on where I am at the time it can feel euphoric or it can feel like relief or whatever, the point is that it's a pleasant feeling, I want to keep thinking about what I want. Doubt then starts taking stabs at this good feeling, which hurt and make it contract, like an animal trying to make itself small. Eventually the good feeling will contract to nothing (as will the pain), as if my desire had finally died. If I struggle trying to focus on positive beliefs, the desire will not die as fast but there will be more pain, the doubt will just keep stabbing at me saying those positive beliefs are not real.

I phrased the question with great care. If we replaced "taller" with "stronger", one way (and there are others) to answer would be to lift weights (which is just a way of issuing the command to grow stronger in a way you know the body will hear), eat properly and observe how the body of others responds to diet and exercise (read about it, listen to them, watch videos about them, etc), while also observing your own body and how it changes through time. I've tried doing that with height but there are just no suitable models.

asked 21 Mar '13, 00:27

flowsurfer's gravatar image


edited 21 Mar '13, 00:47


Yoga, stretch and strengthen your body and you will become taller. Focus on opening up your hips and straightening your stance, I'd have to see your posture to be able to explain where your focus points should be. Lower back, neck, obliques, and general core work are good starting points.

(28 Mar '13, 03:29) Snow

@Snow I mean mostly longer legs.

(28 Mar '13, 04:05) flowsurfer
showing 0 of 3 show 3 more comments


For me the way to develop trust is to begin with the small things. Like parking places.

I would drive someplace to shop. The parking lot is crowded. In the past I had decided, "it is not worth it" and go somewhere else. Then I thought, "I only need one parking place" and I found one, near the business. After a while I began to expect a parking place near the business.

And now, there always is one!

Expanding on this, the checkout line I get in always moves quickly, or they open another checkout lane beside me. The very popular restaurant has that parking place and a table available for me, and I get fast service from the waitperson and the kitchen.

I was amazed that the above was happening so easily and often. But now I just expect it and it gets even better. I TRUST that these things will happen!

That is how I begin to build trust. From this base I expect things to work out easily for me, and they do! I am surprised if they don't.

Hoping becomes amazement and amazement becomes trust. I am having some amazing manifestations. Spectacular manifestations!

BUT, yeah, I sometimes have doubts. I decide that I MUST make something happen, and I can get so caught up in the details that it fails. I let go and think about the small things, like parking places, like the incredible beauty around me and the Universe answers my "bigger" questions in ways I never possibly could have personally created.

Do I drive the car? Not really. I decide where I want to go, and the car takes me there. I remember the small things the Universe sends me without fail and the big things fall into place.

There are so many instances where it works. Here is one example, I have 22 acres of land in a rural area. When land prices were high, I put up a sign for sale. Then the price dropped, so the land was just sitting there. About 6 acres are in a "flood zone" and considered "unbuildable". It has not flooded in 75 years, but that is how it is described on the topological map. I like full disclosure, so I put this topo map on my for sale sign. The sign has been up for 6 years.

Normally, thinking about the land slightly depressed me. My wife and I went out to visit the land and we had very good feelings about the beauty and peace.

The next day we received a phone call from two people who were standing on the property, by the sign. They asked how much to rent the land. I threw out the figure of $1,000 a month. They agreed. We drove out to meet them. They signed a lease and gave me $2,000 in cash. First month's rent and a deposit.

Their interest was in making an organic garden in the 6 acre flood plain and using the rest of the land for cattle, goats and other farm animals. The "flood plain" held especially rich soil that was perfect for gardening. The unbuildable "detriment" was what had attracted them!

Well, maybe, it was our good thoughts about the land and the beauty that allowed the Universe to send them to us.

That is what works for us.

I like the idea that small hopes (parking places) turn into amazement (that we always find a parking place) turn into expectation (that we unquestionably will have that parking place), and that expectation helps build a base of larger manifestations.

The Vortex, for me, is like a stair. As we climb that first step with the confidence that expectation has given us, the next step is easier. Sometimes I have to back down a step to the firm ground of expectation, but when I do, the next step becomes easier.

However it is hard (for me) to look at the top stair and say, "I am going to take a running jump and land there!" But as I climb this stair, as Hope becomes amazement (and gratitude) becomes expectation (and expectation becomes a more powerful belief system) the joy and manifestations expand geometrically.

Thanks, @flowsurfer for asking this question and helping me remember that I needed to back down a stair step where I have the firm foundation of expectation, of trust, to take another step upward.

Success is a state of Mind.

EDITED: @flowsurfer - It seems to me that you are asking a valid question. My answer has to do with your level of trust in Source to give you what you want. I cannot answer from your perspective, so I will answer from how it works for me.

I build trust by taking steps, like my stairs analogy. It is easier for me to take a small step up, manifesting parking places - this is an example, pick something in your life that is easy, and build from there.

If you begin running into doubt, back down a step and find your firm, foundational belief-supported ground. Then try it again from that place of confidence.

This is foundational. Build your foundations and progress is easier. Build on sand and you will, by definition, have doubt. Build from your foundational beliefs and you can achieve greater and greater accomplishments.

You will also find that after a few firm, secure steps, you will find an elevator.

It seems to me that you want to take a flying leap to the top of the stairs. For me this would be very difficult.

It's hard by the yard, but it's a cinch by the inch!


answered 21 Mar '13, 08:01

Dollar%20Bill's gravatar image

Dollar Bill

edited 23 Mar '13, 09:05

I have been listening to these same CD's and Kevin tells us in no uncertain terms that the "how " is not our job , the the thinking part is our work and what you mostly think about it what you get . He is teaching to go with the flow and to tell whether your desire is close to fruition by how it makes you feel as you think of it , feeling good , attracts more thoughts of same and intensity of emotion repeatedly builds a bigger thought form ball , until tipping point when it manifests

(21 Mar '13, 08:48) Starlight

He teaches that repeatedly thinking of desire day in day out eventually becomes an Unconscious Awareness and one does it on Autopilot , this is why many people who attain wealth etc easily without knowing of LOA are already practicing this but unconsciously

(21 Mar '13, 08:52) Starlight

@Starlight I don't care about the means my body uses to grow taller or even the means I employ to give the command. The issue is doubt that my thinking can make it so, that it can actually happen and within a practical time frame (not years). This doubt kills the good feelings of thinking about it.

(21 Mar '13, 13:01) flowsurfer

@Dollar Bill I do not understand how to apply this within the context of my personal situation, desires and beliefs. Focusing on what is possible/done (appreciation) doesn't help build trust on this. If I see someone who has the "end result" of being tall, all that inspires in me is negative feelings of insecurity (in relation to the universe and my worthiness to have the life that I want, not in relation to how others perceive me), because I know that person grew in his teens and early 20s.

(21 Mar '13, 13:05) flowsurfer

@flowsurfer , ok , I can see that as a fair comment :-) So you are basically looking for A Doubt Slayer ?

(21 Mar '13, 18:51) Starlight

@Starlight Pretty much. Do you have one? :)

(21 Mar '13, 19:08) flowsurfer

Just read this http://www.psitek.net/pages/PsiTekTPOT11.html you might find it helpfull . I do appreciate where you are coming from, I too have a Monster in my Closet to Slay :-)

(21 Mar '13, 19:23) Starlight

@Dollar Bill That is the way I started too. I started manifesting parking places back in the early eighties. It works & it's that easy. I know the Universe always provides.

(22 Mar '13, 03:17) ele

@Dollar Bill You see, to me it's an all or nothing thing. If the universe will not support me in growing six inches then how can I believe that the universe will support me in anything, at all, including parking spaces? If I believe something then I don't see it as the universe supporting me, I simply see it as my expectations being aligned with what the universe does on its own. That is the difficulty, which is compounded by the time pressure of aging.

(23 Mar '13, 16:11) flowsurfer

@Dollar Bill I cannot see any "steps" on the ladder for me to step on, at all.

(23 Mar '13, 16:12) flowsurfer

Make a new ladder...:)

(26 Mar '13, 11:19) Roy
showing 2 of 11 show 9 more comments

Is being taller what you actually want? To bring in what you really want, make sure it's what you're asking for. Does being taller really serve you, or is it that you think being taller will permit you to do something else that you really want? Why ask for tools to build a house, when you can just have the house that's already built? Unless, of course, you are wanting to enjoy the experience of building a house. In that case, go right ahead, enjoy it, and take action towards that goal. Measure yourself against a wall, be excited about how much taller you're getting already.

Doubt is not an enemy! Doubt is a reminder that you have a belief that says what you're TRYING to believe isn't going to work, because you actually don't believe it 100%. When you feel doubt, don't suppress it. Ask yourself questions to discover why you don't believe it will, or what you believe that's preventing you from accepting that it is possible. Or, adjust what you're asking for to a level that you can believe without doubt. If you're feeling doubtful about asking for that million dollars, why not try $20. That will probably be a comfortable starting point, and when you achieve it, the excitement will build and you'll feel comfortable with a higher amount.


answered 21 Mar '13, 15:00

Symbiotx's gravatar image


@Symbiotx Yes, being/growing taller is what I actually want. What is preventing me is that the evidence stack is overwhelmingly against me. Even expensive, dangerous surgery that involves horribly painful months of forced growth cannot achieve the result I desire; it would take tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars of investment, multiple dangerous surgeries, many years of recovery and leave me with an unbalanced body, all of which contradict the context in which I want the height.

(21 Mar '13, 15:33) flowsurfer

I don't know how to shift that evidence stack in my favor.

(21 Mar '13, 15:35) flowsurfer

Might I ask, why do you want to grow taller? What makes you believe you aren't as tall as you need to be?

(21 Mar '13, 16:04) Symbiotx

@Symbiotx I don't like the sense of having to justify why I want things because even if I do, whatever I say is not quite the full picture. But, I will give the simple answer. I like being taller than the women around me; I like the experience of being reasonably tall. On a more urgent level, I want a career as a model. Please do not tell me "you don't need to be tall", it doesn't matter if I need to or not, I want to. I am not willing to be a model at my current height, doesn't matter if I can.

(21 Mar '13, 16:21) flowsurfer

On a more important level, I want to feel safe and free in the universe, I want to feel loved and worthy. If I can't grow taller, that means I not safe, free, loved and worthy; there are no words that can hide that and there is nothing I can focus on that changes the meaning of this limitation. It's not just the thing. It's like hearing someone say "I love you". The sound waves have little value, it is the meaning behind them, what they imply, that does.

(21 Mar '13, 16:32) flowsurfer

The simple fact I want to grow taller, and this is a persistent and intense want, means I need to grow taller. If I don't, that means I am not worthy of it while others are and I need to feel worthy. The idea of not being able to grow taller doesn't just make me feel bad because I am not as tall as I want, it makes me fear reality as a whole and it paralyzes me in every single area of my life. It literally makes it difficult to take a shower.

(21 Mar '13, 16:34) flowsurfer

And while I know people who say "focus on something else" have good intentions, I would not focus on something else if I thought I could do this so the simple act of shifting my focus makes me feel unloved because it reinforces the belief that I can't have this.

(21 Mar '13, 16:48) flowsurfer

There is no way around me growing taller. There just isn't. I don't need to wake up one day and be 6 inches taller than the night before but I need the relief of believing, trusting that it is really happening, that I am really growing in the exact sense I mean when using the words, that I really do have power. I have generated that belief before but it fell apart as I kept seeing it wasn't true. I tried not checking but the simple avoidance of checking made me feel it wasn't real.

(21 Mar '13, 17:36) flowsurfer

I ask not out of judgment, but in order to better reflect to you something helpful. I will try to be gentle with responses in order to not convey attacks against your beliefs. Again, I will remind you that I am not here to judge or harm you.

(21 Mar '13, 18:15) Symbiotx

You don't need to hide these feelings or thoughts, or force them to be different. They are there to make you aware of the beliefs you are harboring. When you bring the core belief to light, you certainly can choose to change them and see things differently, or you can choose to keep believing them, depending on what you want to experience.

(21 Mar '13, 18:15) Symbiotx

I would like to point out that it may be useful for you to look at your responses, and ask yourself more "why do I believe this?" questions. It's very concerning for me to see that you are following a 'this or that' line of thinking that draws a connection between being taller than you are now and the key to feeling safe, free, loved, and worthy; as if you are thinking, "Either I am taller and feel loved, or I'm not and I don't."

(21 Mar '13, 18:17) Symbiotx

It's exclusive, not inclusive, and if you believe you are not tall enough, it's easy to see that you're falling into the "I'm not and I don't" option because it's the easier polarity for you to believe. It also draws energy toward wanting something you don't have, which reinforces not having it.

(21 Mar '13, 18:17) Symbiotx

I would simply like to let you know that you are all of these things, and any time you choose not to feel them is by your own definition and beliefs. You are safe! You are free! You are loved! You are worthy! Circumstances don't lead to feeling better. Feeling better leads to circumstances.

(21 Mar '13, 18:18) Symbiotx

"The simple fact I want to grow taller, and this is a persistent and intense want, means I need to grow taller." You don't NEED anything. If you want to, that's one thing, but if you NEEDed to grow taller, your body would grow taller.
"If I don't, that means I am not worthy of it while others are and I need to feel worthy."

(21 Mar '13, 18:19) Symbiotx

You are defining that being taller is better, and that to be worthy, you must have the properties of height. The only thing that says you are not the height that you need to be is you. Any worth in height is completely defined by you. You are restricting yourself from feeling worthy because you think that the only way you can is if you had something that you don't have.

(21 Mar '13, 18:19) Symbiotx

If you were taller, would you look at shorter people as unworthy? Would you willingly be taller if it meant you would feel worthy at the cost of someone shorter feeling unworthy? Are you holding on to beliefs that define some people as better than others?

(21 Mar '13, 18:20) Symbiotx

There are many different ways to look at this, but it all comes down to what your core beliefs are and WHY you want this. I may be wrong on all accounts, but only you will be able to know how to find the answer. Just look inward, and you will find what you need.

(21 Mar '13, 18:23) Symbiotx

@Symbiotx "If you were taller, would you look at shorter people as unworthy?" You missed the point, which I thought I had made clear. It is not "I am worthy because I am taller" but "I am taller because I am worthy". To say this makes me feel unloved, unfree, unsafe and unworthy is not a judgement on height, it is a judgement on the limitation of not being able to grow.

(21 Mar '13, 19:30) flowsurfer

In other words, if I am safe, free, loved and worthy, why am I not taller? What possible reason is there? I am very serious about this question. Anytime someone says "you can't grow taller but", that is dead giveaway that they don't know the answer.

(21 Mar '13, 19:44) flowsurfer

"Would you willingly be taller if it meant you would feel worthy at the cost of someone shorter feeling unworthy?" Yes, I would. I won't say I am willing to pay any price but that cost doesn't even make me flinch. If the rules of reality are such that I have to pay a certain price for the things I want, I am not going to feel guilty about paying that price. I would boil you alive (well, I would consider it anyway) if I thought that was the rule, without guilt, because I didn't make the rule.

(21 Mar '13, 19:48) flowsurfer

You're missing my point as well.
Growing taller is neutral. Worthiness is subjective and defined by the perspective. NOTHING has inherent meaning. We assign all meaning to things.
"...it is a judgement on the limitation of not being able to grow." Remove the judgment, and there is no longer a problem. The whole judgment that worthiness can be reflected in any way in circumstance or manifestation is created by your perspective.

(22 Mar '13, 14:49) Symbiotx

If you decided to be upset about the inability to change everything in your life, wouldn't you be upset about everything, like that you can't change the color of the sky? Why would you decide that something is wrong if you can't change something? If you do decide that, it's YOUR DECISION.
I can look at having lots of money as a sign of being worthy. I don't have a lot of money though. It doesn't make me feel safe or worth anything to look at it this way.

(22 Mar '13, 14:49) Symbiotx

If money is worth, and I lack money, then I must lack worth. However, what is that money? It's just a symbol. It's an excuse to feel like I am safe and worthy. Money isn't the only source of abundance though. If I believe that abundance does not just come in money, and that I have exactly what I need when I need it, then money isn't even an issue. I could have no money and still be safe, worthy, happy, etc.

(22 Mar '13, 14:50) Symbiotx

If I'm limiting myself to only have things a certain way, I will experience limitation in circumstances.

You readily reject anything anyone says to you about being able to do things without taller. Recognize that in believing that their perspective is wrong, and only a taller reality is right, you're limiting your satisfaction to a reality of being taller. You will continue to be unhappy until either your belief or circumstance changes.

(22 Mar '13, 14:50) Symbiotx

I would personally recommend that you let state of being determine your happiness, not circumstance, but it is entirely your choice.

(22 Mar '13, 14:51) Symbiotx
showing 2 of 25 show 23 more comments

I agree start small and build. Look at the things you couldn't do when you were a kid. Now as an adult you can do whatever you want. It's time to get there in your belief.

I ask for the gift of clairvoyance, I started small, like what color car would come next. This eventually led to what playing card was I holding with eyes closed. I have enough hits I call myself clairvoyant. It's a work in progress, belief and meditation. Some days are better them others. But there was a time I though I would not be able to have any of it. Now I know that is false. There are no limits. Don't forget to be grateful for what you have. This it the first step to power. You may not be able to move on without it.


answered 21 Mar '13, 13:28

Tom's gravatar image


@Tom What exactly does it mean to be grateful?

(21 Mar '13, 13:39) flowsurfer

@flowsurfer :What do you think it means to be grateful?

(24 Mar '13, 01:53) ursixx

Hello again flowsurfer,

on this question i would start by following the advice of shelby collinge of perception university. Briefly she says that "it's your why that attracts", it's the feeling of having those things that you're searching for.

She advises that to start with make a list of 25 reasons why you want the things that you want. It's important to come up with 25 and it's doubly important to feel the feelings as you're writing and thinking. It's these very feelings that will begin to sweep through your body that will begin to attract and magnetize what you want, to you.

Remember it's the feeling that gets the blessing. Think about having money, better health, an ideal body, ideal relationships in every area of your life, a booming career, houses, cars, vacations, outfits.

All of it

ffalt textff

Ref. shelby collinge, thought expert, limitless possibilities, inc ;


update 22nd march 2013

How can i know that i have entire control over my life?

By experience and experience leads to belief and belief leads to knowing. Experience is gained by awareness, that is, noting synchronicities, dreams, intuitions, ideas ... anytime something attracts your attention, it's your inner world mirroring your outer physical world. Consider this; all energies exist everywhere all the time, think of "emptyness", now whenever our inner world transmits something to us it prods us that we perceive as something that attracts our attention. In other words we begin to perceive the synchronicities between the inner and outer worlds, we begin to "look" in two opposite directions at the same time, we begin to perceive the action/reaction mechanism between the "logical" physical world and the "illogical" invisible world. With experience the reaction time between these synchronicities reduces more and more until they coincide.

How do i learn to control myself?

There's a large reserve of energy between the visible and invisible that's why we can feel fear of losing control. Think of it as a garden, if we let it get overgrown with plants there would be no place for us to stroll around, so we must create a controlled pathway through the undergrowth for ourselves. So the solution is to create a pathway, a flow path, in other words consciously create a portal between the visible and invisible worlds that we can control with mathematical precision and through which energy flows. This can be done using sacred geometry


A useful flow portal is the hexagon with six layers, it acts as an effective variable flow shield detector and regulates the energies until the 7th level after which there is no longer any need for it.

here's a drawing

alt text


answered 21 Mar '13, 02:22

ru%20bis's gravatar image

ru bis

edited 22 Mar '13, 04:16

@ru bis The difficult I have is not so much with getting the positive feeling but with keeping it from being corrupted by doubt.

(21 Mar '13, 02:34) flowsurfer

@flowsurfer "our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attemp" william shakespeare 'mesure for mesure' act1 scene4

(21 Mar '13, 03:06) ru bis

@ru bis Great link - thanks.

(21 Mar '13, 03:34) Catherine

I thought I understood how this related to (dealt with) doubt but I don't. I don't see how this helps. If I doubt my power to create change, it doesn't make any difference if I focus on the feeling of power and confidence or on the desired change, the doubt is there regardless. Doubt basically says "This feeling is not real, it is an unsustainable illusion". It says (relating to your quote) "fear going against the king, because if you do he is going to chop your head off".

(21 Mar '13, 03:41) flowsurfer

@flowsurfer doubt=distrust, the flip side is trust, it's the law of duality ... just as the flip side to fear is love, it's so transparent, clear as crystal

(21 Mar '13, 03:53) ru bis

@ru bis I know, that is why I placed the word trust in the question. That is my question, how do I feel, sustain, develop, nurture trust?

(21 Mar '13, 03:57) flowsurfer

@ru bis I don't want to "let go of control", that makes me feel extremely bad. As in, EXTREMELY bad. It is this lack of control that makes it difficult to appreciate the present and trust the future. I'm flowSURFER not flowDRIFTER. I don't want "the universe" to decide what is best for me, I want to choose, and through experience refine my choices. I don't want to live my entire life in the passenger seat, wondering if maybe the driver will take the path I want to take.

(21 Mar '13, 04:31) flowsurfer

@ru bis To say "everything is alright" is a completely meaningless statement if there is no possibility of things not being alright, if you simply define whatever is, as alright.

(21 Mar '13, 04:34) flowsurfer

@flowsurfer you are the driver, it's just a matter of learning to control yourself, the universe decides nothing, you have entire control of your life, you are free to decide ... letting go of automatic "unconscous" control is taking conscious control ... imagine you are sitting in an entirely automatic vehicule, you are the passenger, that is unconscious control, now sit in the driving seat and take control and go wherever you please.

(21 Mar '13, 04:37) ru bis

@flowsurfer yes to say everything is alright is meaningless, as in driving a car, alright means going around in righthand circles, driving in a straight line is maintaining exact equilibrium between left and right

(21 Mar '13, 05:03) ru bis

@ru bis How can I know that I have entire control over my life? How do I learn to control myself?

(21 Mar '13, 14:34) flowsurfer

@flowsurfer to answer your two questions, i'm editing my answer above

(22 Mar '13, 01:55) ru bis

@ru bis I have been thinking about how I manifested Neville Goddard into my life. I've also been thinking about how I know what his reply to me would be to all the questions I asked and some I didn't. I don't think I can do any better than him on this site (or out). I think it is better if I stop posting and maybe also stop checking the answers. I need to do everything I can to make sure I am applying his advice and this site is taking the attention of my imagination.

(22 Mar '13, 02:53) flowsurfer

@flowsurfer You're right about Goddard. I'm going to read the Power of Awareness again. @ru bis excellent answer & cool links; including your edit. I'm seeing 'it' from your pov; I've never worried about the why's or how's or tried to complicate it & that was me denying my own power; which is not appreciation. Thank you @tom it was easy!

(22 Mar '13, 03:19) ele

@ele thanks for your appreciation :)

(22 Mar '13, 04:17) ru bis

@flowsurfer ok ... yes in my opinion neville goddard did a brilliant job of translating the bible into modern terms ... i enjoyed communicating with you, thanks for your insights, see you next time round :)

(22 Mar '13, 06:59) ru bis

@ru bis The difficulty I have with Goddard is that my imagination is very weak, sterile even. Especially when it comes to the things I want. I'm trying to find a way to strengthen it. One thing I have done in the past that supercharged my imagination is sleep deprivation, I never did it again because I always end up thinking it's a stupid idea.

(23 Mar '13, 16:27) flowsurfer

@ru bis I say this because the few times I managed to imagine to the degree of "the tones of reality" I felt an immense relief and an automatic trust. So how do I create trust? I think the real answer is simple, though not easy: imagine it vividly.

(23 Mar '13, 17:19) flowsurfer

@flowsurfer whatever i imagine and believe becomes my reality

(24 Mar '13, 01:47) ru bis

@Flow Why don't you try connecting with your inner child. Go back in time to when you believed in magic. Very True, Sleep Deprivation will allow you to enter a lucid dream state more easily. If you are NOT in a trusting state; lucid dreams could cause you to go insane. Hallucinations are not what they are cracked up to be. There is also a huge difference between a lucid dream & a hallucination.

(24 Mar '13, 02:57) ele

lucid dreaming, yes it's like consciously controlling a flow of images, feelings, sounds, that you can start and stop whenever you wish. An hallucination is a projected image that you see and believe as being outside yourself and you have no control over it. come to think of it, lucid dreaming is very close to channeling.

(24 Mar '13, 07:27) ru bis

@ru bis thanks for the correction... EDIT Not sure I completely agree. I've had lucid dreams where the ONLY control I've had was the choice to end it (wake up) or keep going. I'm never sure where lucid dreams will take me. It's part of the fun. The magic. Channeling is more like astral travel imo.

(24 Mar '13, 08:13) ele

@ele Tell me what you mean by "There is also a huge difference between a lucid dream & a hallucination." - Besides the fact that during lucid dreams you are usually in sleep paralysis.

(24 Mar '13, 08:39) flowsurfer

@flow ru bis explains it well. You have NO control over an hallucination. No real escape. Wait, what I just said is not true. Fact is, you can control hallucinations. I certainly have more than once & under EXTREME conditions. I may not be normal tho. I wish I could tell you more; but I shouldn't be writing stuff like this on the internet. Some of the 'crazy' true stuff I've said? Fill in the __

(24 Mar '13, 08:51) ele

You more than anyone else here, knows exactly what I'm talking about. I wish it was different. It is what it is. Just trying keep a low profile. To be fair, ru bis is prob speaking about hallucinations caused by a mental illness. I was not.

(24 Mar '13, 08:52) ele

@ele Do you know a better way to enter a lucid dream state?

(25 Mar '13, 02:04) flowsurfer

@ele the70ies were a trip weren't they?

(25 Mar '13, 02:19) ursixx

@flow 1st, about hallucinations. I was ONLY thinking in terms of bad ones. You cannot control a H; but you can control how you let it affect you. Actually I have sensory H's & they are NOT a bad thing at all or scary in the least. I've had my head examined many times. All is good. I don't understand how lucid dreaming will help you grow taller. As you know, there are 2 kinds of lucid dreams. IMO, going directly into a trance state from a conscious state is my preferred way. You don't have to

(25 Mar '13, 02:24) ele

to deprive yourself of sleep to achieve this. Is there a "slow" time of day or night for you; when you feel kind-of drowsy? Say, you get tired around 4pm. Lay down & meditate. You can also give yourself a command when you go to sleep at night. For me, the other type of lucid dreams & answers come towards morning. Most people prefer to be in total command of their dreams & I guess, it's the objective or ultimate goal for most people. I'm not most people. I set the stage is all... flow

(25 Mar '13, 02:28) ele

A lucid dream can begin in one of two ways. A dream-initiated lucid dream starts as a normal dream, and the dreamer eventually concludes it is a dream. A wake-initiated lucid dream occurs when the dreamer goes from a normal waking state directly into a dream state, with no apparent lapse in consciousness. The wake-initiated lucid dream "occurs when the sleeper enters REM sleep with unbroken self-awareness directly from the waking state".


(25 Mar '13, 02:30) ele

@ele I've tried all that with basically no results (a few random, poor quality experiences). The absolute best experience I've had involved about three days of sleep deprivation. Lucid dreaming will help me experience in imagination a taller body and thus help with trust, because belief is shaped by experience. That is pretty much the only hope I have.

(25 Mar '13, 02:40) flowsurfer

@ursixx huh! is that what you got out of my posts!

(25 Mar '13, 02:45) ele

@flo Did you read what I told Snow? You are prob ok with 3 - just don't drive. I would NOT go more than 3 - period. I honestly don't think it's a good way to get into a lucid dream state. I have to wonder if you are hallucinating or dreaming. Were you actually in control? If you intentionally deprive yourself of sleep; it could lead to paranoia. Not my experience; but others have said this. My experiences with sleep deprivation were NEVER intentional.

(25 Mar '13, 02:51) ele

@ele well if I didn't who would?

(25 Mar '13, 02:53) ursixx

@ursixx YOU are soo easy. Yup, pretty trippy... Love the 70's. I think I put 100,000 miles on my car before I graduated HS.

(25 Mar '13, 02:57) ele

@ele I don't have a car, or a driver's license, or anywhere to go. I was completely awake during the experience, though it only involved moving phantom limbs, it didn't involve any sounds or images at all. To be clear, it happened after I finally went to bed and it was completely accidental.

(25 Mar '13, 02:58) flowsurfer

@ele I am completely open to alternatives (including alternatives to lucid dreaming) but I need something I can actually do, not something that is good in theory.

(25 Mar '13, 02:59) flowsurfer

@flow - to be honest; some of my best trips were when I was a bit sleep deprived. Not intentional. Just not my normal 4 hrs. I still don't recommend it. I know the difference between a H & a lucid dream or trance state. It sounds like a type of lucid dream; but H, can also feel amazing. Were you in control of your phantom limb movements? Did you want the 'feeling' or 'trip' to go on forever? Did you stop it? or did you fall asleep? I vibrate, have feelings, visuals & audio. Try daydreaming.

(25 Mar '13, 03:11) ele

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcaDj5oyLa0 @ele "What a long strange trip it's been"

(25 Mar '13, 03:17) ursixx

@ele I was as much in control of my movement as I am now, except it was like my limbs were "glued" to my physical body (or actually, the bed!) by a rubber band so it was very hard to move. I gave up after a couple of minutes of trying to break free and relaxed, at which point I "woke up". There were no vibrations, sounds, images, fear or feeling of presence. If I could have done that again, I would have tried harder to "separate".

(25 Mar '13, 03:27) flowsurfer

thanks @ursixx I'm so glad I'm no longer responsible. Why should my cyber life be anything like my real life?

(25 Mar '13, 06:35) ele

@flow - I'm confused - you said you were in control; yet you couldn't move your phantom limbs. Was is sleep paralysis? Perhaps I misunderstand - by control, do you mean you were fully conscious or awake & acting like an observer?

(25 Mar '13, 06:51) ele

@ele the journey of your life has brought you to this moment. The moment that you take the next step.

(25 Mar '13, 06:52) ursixx

@ele Why do I have the image of a 3 year old kicking and screaming being dragged out of Playland. Stay and play we have time I'll just get refill on my coffee.Your enjoyment is priceless and the 2nd cup of coffee is free.

(25 Mar '13, 07:02) ursixx

@ele are you that interesting? :P

(25 Mar '13, 07:28) ursixx

@ele nice thing about the chat thingy over there>>>> no time limit on deletes ;) ezier to cover your @§§

(25 Mar '13, 07:44) ursixx

@ele I could move my phantom limbs I just couldn't move them very far due to a force pulling them back to the bed. Note that following that I had a couple of short experiences where I also encountered that resistance but I used enough concentrated force to break free; unfortunately in those occasions I was not completely awake mentally and the spell was broken quickly, I just acted out of reflex and a vague idea of what was going on.

(25 Mar '13, 07:49) flowsurfer

@flow Well it sounds like a lucid dream. I'm not an expert. Let me think on it cause I'm not getting how this will build trust or allow you to grow another half foot or so.

(25 Mar '13, 07:55) ele
showing 2 of 49 show 47 more comments

For the first time ever on this forum ive edited my answer......it was totally in appropriate.

Weve someone on this forum who seems to believe that his height ( or perceived lack of it) is non negotiable, a problem and something that simply isnt going to be tolerated.

Ive seen the answers listed, and my fairly mild answer to this question too.

Im ashamed of this forum, im ashamed of the people who answered. im ashamed of Barry, and Simon Templeton...but more than that im ashamed of myself.

Theres a very confused seeker here who for some reason thinks its perfectly REASONABLE to expect that his belief system will quickly make him taller. Moreover he has said he will accept no debate on this and that it is non negotiable.

100 % this is not open to debate.

No one has informed Flowsurfer that this is not only "not an option"...but it is his only option!

Flowsurfer has voiced the opinion that this isnt just a case of changeing his race but " MERELY " OF changing something as small and insignificant as physical height!!

Ive let you down flowsurfer... i should have told you that you are deluding yourself that you cant gain an inch of height by any metaphysical or spiritual means. Im sorry... im so sorry.

Im thankfull i dont run this forum... i would be even more pissed off with myself.

Flowsurfer PLEASE PLEASE either get used to your height, OR seek PROFESSIONAL help in your reaction to it. You can spend a lifetime reading Neville, Vadim ,Christ or god knows what, but you will leave this planet and reality the same height as you are now.

Im not in any way against you my friend....but im not gonna bullshit you


answered 24 Mar '13, 07:07

Monty%20Riviera's gravatar image

Monty Riviera

edited 24 Mar '13, 20:22

@Month Riviera That is not acceptable. Being tall is not optional. I mean this 100%. I don't want to be Tom Cruise.

(24 Mar '13, 07:39) flowsurfer

Well i suppose only you know what you really want Flowsurfer, and if thats what youve set your sights on then all the best to you. People have achived some remarkable things in this life, i must be honest ive never heard of anyone commanding their body to get taller and it happening. BUT thats doesnt mean it cant happen. Keep me posted, ive been proved wrong a lot in this life.

(24 Mar '13, 07:45) Monty Riviera

Some people claim to have done this. http://zixialinmm.blogspot.com.br/ (Besides herself, some people post comments about having success applying her method, although others post about failure) http://thesecret.tv/stories/stories-read.html?id=9930 http://deeptrancenow.com/growtaller.php The problem with claims is that you can't always tell a person's age or honesty, or if their growth plates have closed yet or not (giants suffer with a hormone imbalance that prevents growth plates from closing).

(24 Mar '13, 08:13) flowsurfer

If this stuff can't make me taller, it is all bullshit. I'm not asking for superpowers, to change my gender or racial background, to make Britney Spears fall in love with me or to win the lottery, I just want my bones to grow in a balanced manner. Pretty reasonable I think.

(24 Mar '13, 08:24) flowsurfer

@Monty Riviera Regarding your blonde, all I can say is this: did it ever feel natural to you, or did it have a sort "I want but I'm not worthy of it and would run away if it came to me in real life" sort of energy? In other words, did the thinking about the busty blonde effect a change in your self-concept (your ego) or was it just fantasy? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shgm6tDdn20

(24 Mar '13, 08:26) flowsurfer

@Monty Riviera You are perfectly free to feel this way but there is something you must understand. I came into this whole "Law of Attraction" stuff because I saw that without it, life is empty, hopeless and terrifying. My belief in it is the only alternative to suicide or deep depression. I did not start with the law, I started with regular "get things done" thinking and normal psychology. I have zero interest in getting used to any height other than my ideal one. I would rather die.

(24 Mar '13, 20:33) flowsurfer

Good Flowsurfer... im SO happy that you ARE used to your own height...and im relieved to know your happy with your ideal height. You see Flowsurfer...i got the idea that you were simply not happy with the height you are....your question made me believe you were not where you wanted to be. Im glad your comfortable in your own skin...im off to bed now...ive been thinking about your post all day today...its touched me. Your cool the way you are...thats all

(24 Mar '13, 20:45) Monty Riviera
showing 2 of 7 show 5 more comments

Ultimately what you want is to be happy with your height.Try doing Two Hands Touching by its self or other techniques like affirmations or EZ Deletion Sequence to feel better about your self.

So do THT then say, "I am the perfect height for me."

Answer yourself, "Why do I want to be taller?" Then, when you get answer, ask, "Why is that so great?" and then for that answer, "Why is that so great?" until you get to the real meat of the matter. Also ask, "What is so wrong about being short?" When you get an answer, ask, "What is so wrong with that?" and when you get an answer to that, ask, "What is so wrong with that?" untill you get to the real meat of the matter. Then take those final points and do THT and whatever other technique that will help you, visualization, affirmations, EZDS, or mix it up and do several. If you want to visualize yourself taller, try that. But ultimately, you just want to be happy with your height.


answered 25 Mar '13, 08:21

Fairy%20Princess's gravatar image

Fairy Princess

@Fairy Princess I've done he introspection an no, I don't just want to be happy with my height. I have no interest in any process to make me "happy with my height". I want to have control over my height and exercise that control in a specific manner in order to be able to live with a body that has a specific height.

(25 Mar '13, 09:17) flowsurfer

I have a question Flowsurfer, now i know you want to be taller, you dont want it for a flash lifestyle and i know you want it badly. Ive re read a lot of what youve written and im sure your fed up with people saying that you dont "really " want this, OR you must learn to be happy with the way things are now. Im now convinced of your sincerity and i kind of see where your coming from. You come accross as a sensitive,patient man.Your refusal to snap back at people proves this.

(26 Mar '13, 10:12) Monty Riviera

Things are either going 2 ways here, you will either receive your miracle and begin to grow...or stay the same. It has to be one or the other. Im not going to get into semantics about other universes,reality creation or any of that crap.Im just saying its either gonna go the two ways ive suggested. So WHAT happens if your height stays the same? What contigency plan have you formulated and how will you cope? Im genuinely interested in your outcome and want to see you come out of this ok.

(26 Mar '13, 10:16) Monty Riviera

There will be many people on this forum who, for one reason or another will have unrealised dreams and ambitions, im interested in people obtaining there deires and always feel blessed to share in their victories. But theres a flip side to this, and i realise that for some the battle carry on when things dont seem to have manifested is a hard one,or maybe not.I kind of hope you feel a massive release and are set free from your demons, and i mean demons metaphorically.

(26 Mar '13, 10:21) Monty Riviera

Your a unique and decent person Flowsurfer, you have a dream you have an intellect,your thoughful and maybe a little misunderstood. Some of my comments have been a little harsh and i maybe could have said some things a little more kindly and sensitiveley. I hope your situation improves and i really hope that the height issue doesnt end up being all that your life is about,i hope it doesnt rule you ,control you or rob you of anything.

(26 Mar '13, 10:32) Monty Riviera

Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei

(26 Mar '13, 17:57) ele

@Monty Riviera I've already answered this question, to you. I do not like to talk of this but you people keep forcing me to by focusing on the possibility that I won't grow. The contingency plan is suicide. I will not bother to justify why.

(26 Mar '13, 22:35) flowsurfer

@Monty Riviera I've held on to hope for quite a while now, since before height was even seriously on my radar and if that hope is false, I don't see any value in living. I doubt I can hold on past this year. I am not interested in distractions or rationalizations. I know what I want and why I want it and that is it.

(26 Mar '13, 22:36) flowsurfer

@Monty Riviera I say this because the possibility of failure is not a possibility. If I cannot get what I want in this life, I'll take the chance that there is another life beyond this. The only reason I haven't is because I think I am more likely to succeed if I stick around. If you tell me I can't grow, or "maybe you won't grow", I more or less immediately tune you out because there is no value to me in listening to anyone who says that.

(26 Mar '13, 22:54) flowsurfer

@flowsurfer Finally, I'm hearing you loud & clear. I won't confuse you with the boy who cried wolf. I told you before, your posts make me feel manipulated & reek of control & because you are a reminder of old pain bodies, I have no desire to connect with your energy. I have NO answers; look to IQ members with high Karma. I'm out of here & am closing down my email also.

(26 Mar '13, 23:03) ele

@ele I understand.

(26 Mar '13, 23:10) flowsurfer

Ok Flowsurfer, i understand. I wish you all the best in the next world.Im sure you will find a release there. I wish you a clean and tidy transition. Goodbye.

(27 Mar '13, 15:49) Monty Riviera
showing 2 of 12 show 10 more comments

When I read I often see symbols, metaphors, similarities & synchronicity. The wish to be taller is a euphemism for suicide by hanging.

This is based off of a rather humorous scene in the anime "Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei," Where the title character, literally named "Despair" in Japanese, tries to hang himself before a cheerful and exceedingly optimistic girl by the name of "Kafuka Fuura," who states that her mother, father and many people in her family have tried to "Make themselves taller."

"No one would dare kill themselves on such a nice spring day! You're just making yourself taller!"

Its springtime flowsurfer; put your dancing shoes on and dance. @CalonLan will teach you the steps. He's a street dancer from way back.

Sayonara, Zetsubou-Sensei (さよなら絶望先生 Sayonara Zetsubō Sensei?, literally means "Goodbye, Mr. Despair". It is a comedy about a teacher who takes all aspects of life, word and culture in the most negative light possible.

Sayonara, Zetsubou-Sensei revolves around a very pessimistic high school teacher named Nozomu Itoshiki who, at the very beginning of the series, tries to hang himself on a sakura tree. He is saved by an extremely optimistic student known only as Kafuka Fuura (though in her effort to save his life, she almost kills him). She explains to him that it is simply unimaginable that he would hang himself on such a nice day, especially in front of such beautiful trees. (I love beauty; so sensual)


@MontyRiviera Maybe you will appreciate this. Plot Summary: Itoshiki Nozomu is the world's most negative person. To his way of thinking, there is no hope or meaning in this existence. Even the three kanji of his name become the two-kanji word zetsubou, "despair", when compressed. What an ironic twist of fate, then, that he becomes teacher to a class containing his precise opposite, the invincibly positive-minded Fuura Kafuka.


We may think of @flowsurfer as the student but is flow the student or is he the teacher, Monty? Great teachers know they are still 'the student' or as one of my fav IQ teachers, past, present & future (blu/ru bis/true bliss) is fond of saying it's "the law of duality.

or you could just wear Bono boots (U2) flow.


I also don't think I've said anything flow doesn't already know himself. I trust both "God" & my higher 'source', the God in me & I try to live in the NOW.

This answer is marked "community wiki".

answered 26 Mar '13, 22:26

ele's gravatar image


wikified 26 Mar '13, 22:28

@flowsurfer guitar players don't have to be tall..

(26 Mar '13, 22:35) ele

@flowsurfer IMO & for what it is worth. You do NOT wish to grow taller. Your desire to grow taller is ONLY a desperate cry for help & attention! Drama - you could have written that show - even the politic sequel. (I was busy unsubscribing from all your threads - please don't take it personally)

(26 Mar '13, 23:08) ele

@flow I knew you would come to this conclusion. "What growing taller implies" I had faith in you. You were being dramatic - so I thought I'd try drama also. Guess it worked. I really am going tho - I have to work. It's lights out for my personal lap top. After this week; I should have more time. You are loved & everyone on IQ appreciates you & you are safe in the asylum - many passages & corridors to explore & you'll find helpful questors at every window.

(26 Mar '13, 23:46) ele

For the non english IQ members or observers. Asylum means sanctuary.

(26 Mar '13, 23:47) ele

Sorry, I deleted the comment; I've said that a hundred times already so I won't try to rewrite it. However, this gave me an idea.

(26 Mar '13, 23:57) flowsurfer

@ele yes me too, i see symbols, metaphors, similarities and synchronicities in everyday life; expanding them in the imagination, feeling and recognizing the inner echo and understanding them paves the way to expansion

(27 Mar '13, 09:00) ru bis

@flo I just love it when it appears I'm talking to myself. I think you deleted a couple. I was going to add the post where you said you stopped playing the guitar because you didn't want to be a short bald guitar player to "My Music". It was the first time you've made me laugh. Smiles, yes - Laughter, no. Inspirations are a very good thing & lots of fun - glad you finally feel inspired about something.

(27 Mar '13, 18:31) ele

@ru glad you got something worthwhile out of that jumbled mess.. Not too many think (see) the way I do. "echo" - that resonates with me more than you can imagine.

(27 Mar '13, 18:34) ele

@ele "resonate" isn't that what "echo" is all about? :)

(28 Mar '13, 02:55) ru bis
showing 2 of 9 show 7 more comments
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Asked: 21 Mar '13, 00:27

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Last updated: 28 Mar '13, 04:05

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