This is not to say I think rape is fine, I don't. However, this is a very serious question. We live in a society that does not feel it is wrong to force people to do things in order to please other people. This is what the entire political system today is based on as we as a society have long discarded the idea of personal independence, with the state as an arbitrator, and have very much embraced a hive mentality. Not to say that societies in the past did not engage in this sort of thing, simply that there is no longer even the idea of a class of free citizens. Why is it worse to force a person (man, woman, child, whatever) to spend an hour or whatever having sex than it is to force a person to work an extra 20 hours a week to, let's pick a random example, finance another person's healthcare? The number of possible examples is as big as government budgets and the number of people who actively fight for that loot and will burn down a city if it is denied them is very large. I'm entirely sure a lot of them use the loot for sexual satisfaction and I'm also entirely sure a lot of them get sexual pleasure from simply knowing they have a high status in the power structure.
To be even more explicit, we still have mandatory military service here. Not every man serves but every man has to "enlist". The process involves being forced to go to an army camp and strip down in front of a bunch of other men who have the power to force you to basically be a slave for year. You are also forced to pledge your life. This is just the indignity involved in enlisting. So basically, even ignoring the political system as a whole, society feels it is perfectly fine to force all men to live a heavily regimented life, washing bathrooms and being physically assaulted and verbally abused for a year. Assuming there is no war, in which case it is also perfectly alright to send them to their slaughter.
And yet, if someone has to spend an hour being forced to have sex, that is outrageous? Why aren't people as outraged by taxes, military service, nonsensical laws and regulations, etc, as they are by rape? Why do we minimize the pain caused by those things?
Have you ever personally advocated things that, if you really stopped to think about it, are worse than rape?
I can see the point you are trying to make. We are all very different from each other and it all boils down to our individual opinions just like we have individual opinions about everything else in life, for instance, I believe that money is not the source of happiness whereas loads of other people think it is. We all will never be able to agree on a lot of things in life and that is just something we have to accept.
And most of the time, these opinions come about as a result of our life experiences. For example, I have a permanent job that requires me to work under pressure most of the time and for long hours and week ends frequently. So, I don't have a very high opinion of having to pay taxes. But somebody else's experience might be completely different. They might not have a job and really enjoy the fact that people pay taxes because that they then get unemployment benefit for example.
answered 28 Nov '13, 06:31
it is a violation
answered 24 Nov '13, 06:08
I agree that war poisons the human spirit and the trauma that is created by it gridlocks humanity in patterns of violence, bloodshed and pain. Rape also keeps humanity stuck in lower vibrations and many beings are incarnate right now to overcome their tendency to rape and kill in order to feel more powerful. It only gives the illusion of power - in reality it keeps you locked into a denser world, stuck in a chain of misery and pain. The normalising of violence by the mass media only serves to make us all less compassionate, less empathic and move us away from the higher frequencies of love and well being.
The time really has come to consciously decide whether you want to stay stuck in these lower frequencies or whether you want something different. You've got to start being more conscious and discerning about what you are absorbing through the mass media (violence being no big deal is one erroneous message) and what you put out there Flowsurfer. Start by consciously intending to live in peace, freedom and harmony with all beings, regardless of gender and race. Look for signs of harmony in your environment - small acts of kindness and compassion. Be mindful of what you are focusing into being, particularly as things really start to speed up. It really is only a choice between fear and love. No one else can make that choice for you.
Rape is primarily an act of violence. It is an act of betrayal, a violation of the integrity of a woman's body and psyche. It is an assault, worse than an ordinary assault because it creates emotional scars as well as physical ones.
There's a reason that war crimes often involve raping of the enemy's women; it represents complete abandon of all principles, and complete demoralization of the enemy.
Women who are raped require healing of the most fundamental kind, and some of the damage that is done never completely goes away. I'd say that pretty much trumps whatever moral objections you have to other kinds of crime.
answered 28 Nov '13, 14:59
I feel you should of seriously asked this question else where. Especially since we all know you formed this question from a topic where someone on here here was highly traumatized from being raped and goes on here everyday and is going to see your title of this post when she wakes up and logs on. Not to mention all the other people who frequent here that may have gone through the same thing. Change your question title at least. What the hell man.
Whoever upvoted this is dumb.
I understand where you are going with your question, and I share the same opinions on how we live everyday in a slave robotic fashion towards the bottom of what you wrote, but your question, the way you asked it in the title and from the get go of the summary is highly harsh to people who have gone through this and are coming to this site looking for help.
answered 24 Nov '13, 12:09
@flowsurfer You put fair points to be deal with. Nevertheless everything balanced. Poor is suffering, rich is enjoying. If wound gives pain, healing gives relieved. You have to decide where you want your place to be. It is not easy to get everything we desire for, but every desire has its own challenges to meet with. And also if we cover or uncover our imaginations, we feel like we are at right place, and have to make a start right from here for the changes that we look for.
@flowsurfer love you man.
Thank you, Perfect Good
(Just for mathematically accuracy I would like to let know everyone on IQ that I'm male.)
answered 23 Nov '13, 22:13
Rape is more than a sin against humanity, hence unpardonable. Because rapist mentality is that I want what I want at any cost--at the cost of physical, mental, and emotional pain of the other person, and trampling over the cherished value of the victim. Utter disregard of others, hence such a person invites the same treatment from the society!
And nature will ensure that the rapist receives the same distress he gave to his victim--though mode of distress may vary!
Okay, I haven't even bothered to read through ALL the answers. But I understand and agree with a lot of what you're saying in your post.
Society is messed up. Plain and simple. The reason things like rape are worse than forced military service is because of the belief systems everybody has. They believe that the body is sacred and if it's defiled it's one of the worst things EVER. Now, I do respect people and their bodies, but it's obvious that rape is a bigger deal because society's belief systems make it a bigger deal.
So asking this question is redundant at this point because the answer is already staring you in the face. Society is messed up in many ways. Certain things are acceptable in society while others are not, and it's all because of belief systems. Anything else to do with this question is just going to result in you running around in circles; because it all goes back to belief systems.
NOTE: On an individual level, rape is very much a big deal. I'm sure you're not arguing against that, of course, but I'm just pointing it out. The individual themselves can be mentally scarred for the rest of their lives from an experience like that. So even if murder is worse, (personally I think it is because you're taking someone's life) rape can still be tremendously life impacting, depending on a lot of factors.
So as a whole, yes, I agree that compared to murder, forced military service, etc, rape is (for whatever reason) more unacceptable. It's just the way society is.
answered 25 Nov '13, 20:30
There is a lot of fear in your question. When one disowns his responsibility in a democratic system and puts blame on them and states what they do as unfair and equates that to rape.
You want the truth?
Alright, I tell you.. look around your reality.. go up to a woman ask for sex.. as she slaps you or walks away.. you have to ask yourself why right?
People have a billion reasons of LACK/negative to refuse each other such a profoundly pleasurable service
His nose is too big, I only have sex with white guys, they need to exercise more and have less body fat..
So let's be clear we INVENTED "rape" because there's too much LACK in sex and more so.. the word RAPE is all about LACK in sex.. it is negative description of a sexual act.. and it is all because we have a lot of LACK in sex..
Above someone said it is a 'violation' and they couldn't be more WRONG.. each of us here in reality AGREE to be here.. it is a agreement to be alive and to have a rape experience to you (all creation is agreement/manifestation)
Anyway to answer your question specifically "Why is rape such a big deal?"
It is the belief system of the day.. look into the past if you want to see belief systems of old that are being neutralized "today" in the 1900's it might have been acceptable to dress up with some guys in white and go lynch a negro and that was TOTALLY ACCEPTABLE and A-Okay back then
Just 10-20 years ago it was totally acceptable to stop gays from getting married have you noticed this belief system is being neutralized?
So just give it time/patience.. you will see the rape/big deal thing be neutralized as well :)
answered 24 Nov '13, 12:02
Rape is against the wishes of individual. Taxes, and other regulations in at least a democratic nations are subject to will of the people as a majority. I know sometimes systems seem a little broke but as long as its democracy people can change things and changes do happen through votes if those are the more pressing issues for the majority of people. governments always get voted out and another party forms govt.
So when govt raises taxes there is always another opposition offering lower tax to people etc. Same with most laws. i am not saying system is perfect but you can't compare to rape at all. The most critical issue usually is in the hands of people when it comes to democracy.
answered 25 Nov '13, 17:56
Rape is very serious and many times is very violent. It happens from babies not even 2 years old to women in their 90's It happens to women and men. It is about power.
There have been found babies in dumpsters that were ripped open so far up the internal organs were punctured!
Read the book "How to say no to a rapist and survive." This book is by Fredric Stroska. Mr. Stroska is a psychologist that studied rapist and victims for years before he wrote his book. He is also the Soke of our school. He founded the Bushido Karate School in the late fifties early sixties.
Rape turns into murder very quickly. The rapist panics trying to keep the victim from screaming. One little girl had her panties shoved down her throat to keep her quite. It worked she was forever silenced, she smoothed to death.
Rape is horrible and should not be taken lightly at all!
answered 27 Nov '13, 10:02
@Flowsurfer Go up into the very secluded mountains of north Georgia, listen for banjo music.
Yell "I hate you (hangtag), (hangtag) mountain (hangtag) people!!" and get a first (so to speak) hand example of how tiresome male rape can be.
You might find this same experience more easily. Just depends how much of a pain in the (hangtags) you want to be.
And think about this. I may just may be the most honest person, the most helpful person for you on IQ.
Experience and enjoy.
answered 25 Nov '13, 08:42
Dear @IQ Moderator ♦♦
After Simon said this on Meta, I wasn't sure where I should ask this. Feel free to delete it, if it's not where it should be. I may write it up on Meta also & then delete it.
Until recently I believed the moderators were reading every post. Now I realize, this is not the case. I'm guessing another member flagged the comment made by @flowsurfer which ended up getting him suspended for intentional disruption of IQ.
I'm having trouble understanding why @flowsurfer was suspended or suspended for the reasons given.
Unless I'm missing something and a post was deleted that I'm not aware of, I believe an error was made. I don't think the moderator had time to fully investigate & based his decision partially on what a well respected member of IQ said when flagging the comment as well as discussions held earlier on the subject here.
I came online shortly after he was suspended & clicked on flow's recent activity.
According to flows recent activity, the last thing flow said prior to logging off the nite before was this ~
The next day he logged back on and made a comment at 8:08 which he edited 3 minutes later. I have no idea what was said prior to his edit. The comment he edited was in reply to what @ikaruss21 said after flow logged off the nite before.
The following is the edited comment he made at 8:11 & the last sentence of his comment is the reason given for his suspension ~
Flow made the above comment at 8:11. It appears to me he got up from his computer ~ maybe he went outside, walked around the block, got some fresh air & then got back on his computer & started reading what he wrote the night before. It appears to me, flow realized he was out of line & was trying to make amends because he made this comment 37 minutes later ~
An hour and 5 min's after flow said I'm going to start a game" a moderator came on and said the following with no regard to the comment flow made at 8:48 ~
Maybe the moderator never noticed the apology @flow made 37 min's after he said "he was going to start a game" in a moment which appears to me, to be one of total frustration on flow's part. Perhaps flow was reading over all the comments he made the night before & planned on making more apologies; but was suspended before he could.
I've interacted with flow often since he joined last Christmas. Until the month or so prior to his acct being suspended; I've never known him to be anything other than calm, polite, respectful & very well mannered. I can't even recall him cursing prior to the last couple months. Never got angry. Very controlled ~ showed little or no emotion. He's been extremely depressed & suicidal as well as angry. I'm NOT making excuses or trying to justify his words. I'm sharing my point of view because I've interacted with him often.
Personally, I think flow was frustrated & blowing off steam when he made the comment which the moderator mistook as a threat. He was being a bit melodramatic because I think he was very frustrated & perhaps hurt by the comments made by other members. There was a major breakdown in communication between many members.
He made a comment to @Vesuvius which was out of line the nite before. Perhaps after he apologized to @Wade he was going to apologize to him also; but was suspended before he could. He could have been reading over the thread & looking for links to post supporting his claims in regards to sexual abuse of men. Perhaps he was going to apologize to @ikaruss21 too. He certainly wasn't doing anything to disrupt IQ.
I know if you look at the answer where the comments were made it looks bad; but remember the comments between DB, Jai, ursixx & flow were made the nite before. I'm not trying to excuse flow's behavior but I understand his frustration with DB, @ursixx & @Jai & I think if you read what I wrote you will understand also. If you wish ~ please see my comments on what I was thinking when I read what $B, ursixx , ikaruss21, & Jai said here .
I believe one of the main points flow was trying to make was ~ NOT everyone resides in N America, the UK or another civilized country. I think this is where much of his frustration was coming from.
Even though I knew the moderator may of made a mistake, I didn't speak up right away for 2 reasons. 1st, because I honestly thought he was leaving because he asked to have his acct suspended. He wrote the following & gave his points away. I thought he was killing time until the moderators took action on his request. I know he didn't go through proper protocol; but he prob thought what I did ~ the mods read the threads & would eventually see it. I noticed @The Best Science Joke guy didn't follow protocol when he asked for his acct to be suspended & luckily a moderator noticed his comment soon after he made it.
I'm going to paste what flow said ~
The 2nd reason was because I thought he needed a time out. Time to cool off & think about how he was acting & the words he was using. Take time to realize & appreciate IQ & all the members.
Then I saw this & realized he wanted to come back. He doesn't have any friends, or a job & lives in his moms basement. He said IQ was a lifeline for him.
I waited an additional amt of time before posting this question because of Jai. I knew if she continued to go after flow & he responded emotionally instead of thinking first, he would not get another chance & his suspension would be permanent. If you want to read more about this - see here . I realize it's a very long read - you can start reading where I wrote Not a curse word was uttered in bold print. Please read the next 4 short paragraphs which include a quote by Simon if you so desire.
>@ele I thought it was a bit harsh that Flowsurfer was booted out without much warning but presumably he could appeal to Simon's kind heart - (20 Dec '13, 09:20) Catherine
(or the moderator on duty)
... and remember, flow joined on x-mas day. (sorry, pulling out all the stops)
I would also like to post a quote by Stingray to NB which I feel is applicable also especially if you combine it with what Simon said in regards to the profanity scanner & yes, you can find the complete quote here.
I honestly can't see how you can suspend flow for the reason given. If you follow his activity ~ the comments do NOT support the moderators decision. If it was my decision to make, I would suspend him by request & when he's ready to come back he could either open a new acct or come back under his old user name. I hope you agree ...
Thank you ...
To be clear ~ I am NOT condoning flow's rude comments or his choice of words. I was also on the receiving end of flow's harsh comments a month earlier. I stopped speaking because I didn't want him to get suspended. I knew he was very upset. Hindsight tells me I should have handled it different.
Had @flow been warned or banned for what he said to @Vesuvius or the first part of the comment he made to @ikaruss I would completely understand & be in agreement. I would NOT have taken the time to write up a post asking the mods to investigate further. That was NOT the REASON his account was suspended. I could have & prob should have stuck to just the facts ~ but ~ since I went to the trouble to do this ~ thought I'd add my personal 2 cents.
This answer is marked "community wiki".
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