Good afternoon everyone,
I've been exposing myself to a lot of material and practices. When I was researching for help with the stopping thought exercise of the Master Key System I came across this site:
I've also read The Power of Now and some other material which points to more or less thing.
I'm reading the book from the link above ("The Most Rapid and Direct Means to Eternal Bliss") and practicing self inquiry. After a month or so I started to get some results, I started to get some flashes of what I think is awareness / no thought, and it got better and better but after a while and out of nowhere I got back to square one. Bombarded by thought during my meditations, etc.
It was kind of frustrating, but great practice to be in the present moment and let go hehe. Has anyone been through this process? Any tips, insights or help of any kind is appreciated.
asked 23 Feb '12, 20:20
Hi Kriegerd What a great question!
I checked out both the links very briefly.
The FreddieYam.com on How to Stop Thoughts is pretty good, for what it is.
I cannot completely relate to that article because I used different methods to understand my own nature of thoughts.
Trying to stop my thoughts is one area where I have spent quite a lot of effort for many years now, and It has taken me literally over 10years to learn to just physically participate in a day to day situation without super imposing a mind dialog over the experience that I am participating in.
So I can only speak from my own experience when I say this about it.
All external information is just preparation for the adventure, but none of it is applicable for you.
It is 100% applicable to the person who wrote the article.
But that person is not you.
When it comes to unlocking (that word really should not be used here) the mind there is nothing out there that will help you because everything out there will keep you within thought.
Because to comprehend any other's perspective other than your own, you need to use the faculty of thinking, which keeps you trapped in the molasses like matrix of thought.
So the first article is fantastic as long as you realize that in the application of it you are not acquiring more understanding, but rather letting go of yourself towards more understanding. I'll try and clarify this more near the end.
Your second link "The Most Rapid and Direct Means to Eternal Bliss" is absolutely fantastic.
Having only glanced at the various chapters, my understanding of the entire book is limited.
I have worked with my consciousness to understand and confirm all the way up to chapter 3.
I completely agree with the opinion that the ego is, in a way, a trap within which our spiritual self remains stuck.
I love this part from chap 3, "Thinking is controlled by the ego and the ego uses thought to preserve its imaginary self.”
Just as you have described in your question, I have fallen back to square one many many times and have had to try something slightly different with each try.
As you can see, Stingray has graciously shared his knowledge and methods with regards to the LOA with all of us with great generosity.
He has shared many answers about his efforts in developing many of these methods.
He didn't do it overnight, and he didn't copy the ideas from elsewhere.
His efforts spanned many years and intense persistence, with tremendous trust in his own inner guidance to show him what's possible.
It was a process of discovery over some time.
This seems to miss a lot of people.
Self-inquiry does not happen over a dialog with others.
It does not even happen over a dialog with the self.
BECAUSE THE PERSON ASKING THE QUESTION IS TRYING TO DISCOVER THE PERSON ASKING THE QUESTION.
Have you seen that animated cartoon where the artist is shown drawing himself into existence?
Well did you ask you self where was the artist before he drew himself.
That is what we are, pure spirit.
And with every motion of consciousness, we are giving meaning to something within manifested reality.
Within that meaning, any meaning, we shift our point of reference to the reflected point of reference, rather than the creator point of reference.
If you have issues, for example, with the use of the word "creator" in the above sentence, it is a reaction to finding meaning within, and staying within, the self that is observed instead of the self that is the observer.
You cannot catch yourself by observing yourself.
You have to stop looking in order to find the person looking.
With regards to my point earlier about clarifying it's meaning near the end, imagine that you are standing in the center of a cornfield maze.
Now you post the question "OK what do I do now?"
And someone here says "go forward and turn left"
And then you post "OK I have done that, now where do I turn?"
And someone else posts "proceed to the third opening to your left and read the instructions on chapter 3 of the book of keys for the next instruction"
And so you proceed constantly asking and receiving guidance from various sources of great knowledge and from the wisdom of all those you know and don't know (such as here)
And finally you get to the outside of the cornfield maze.
Now how will you apply your acquired knowledge to a totally new cornfield maze within which you find yourself the next time?
What if the previous answers don't apply to the new maze?
Had you relied on your own inner guidance to get out of the first maze, it may have taken you hours and hours to do it, but you can apply that experience to any other maze the next time.
Self-inquiry is exactly that, the inquiry of the self by the self.
To try and find that self through external help is no different than trying to become an artist by learning from volumes and volumes of art books, or trying to become a great musician by studying all the great music that is already out there.
All the study is just the foundation to unlock the unknown that is within you, or beyond you, but understood and seen from your own unique perspective.
That unique perspective that is from within you cannot be authenticated by another, because it was not meant for another.
To make real progress towards your "self" you have to depend on yourself.
Any "method" out there was NOT meant for YOUR "self".
It was meant for the "self" of the author of the method.
Any method you follow will leave you with more questions because it will never fit your needs.
They are all maps to help you navigate in the unknown, except in a paradoxical twist the UNKNOWN here is known only to you because it is yourself that you are trying to know.
In spite of this seeming negative angle above, let me contradict myself by saying that the links you posted are fantastic, especially the second link. It's great information to put my ego in its proper place.
I am looking forward to learning and reading from "The Most Rapid and Direct Means to Eternal Bliss" at my leisure. Thank you for that post.
With regards to your last request "Any tips, insights or help of any kind is appreciated."
He's what I tried (over a long period of time)
I began with trying to stop thought in meditation, and as your first link pointed out, I thought I was silent, but for the most part I was actually distracted by the silence (if that makes any sense), which in itself made it noise of silence.
I was forever distracted by either the tension of anticipation of the silence being broken (which made it no longer silence) or my desire to place my attention somewhere, such as my breathing, which then made it an obsession about if I am breathing right.
Eventually I discovered that maybe the problem was trying to isolate my experience within such an artificial place of attention (Of meditation), which did not translate to my day to day existence.
So I looked for ways to silence my mind while being fully awake and participating in day to day life.
I started by paying attention to my mind while driving to work and back.
I realized that 90% of what was in my mind had nothing to do with the attention on the road ahead of me.
So I started there, and started dropping any thought that had nothing to do with my attention on the road.
Over a year I was able to slowly silence the mind while driving, to the point that I could anticipate other's moves before it happened.
It was the greatest situation to learn silence, because my attention was completely necessary to keep me alive and yet, thought was completely un-necessary to accomplish that task.
I started applying what I learned to other situations, such as having conversations with others.
That's the area that I'm working on these days, and it's really interesting.
I have discovered that in silence, I am able to see the connection between the inner anticipation and how it triggers others to "live up" to my inner anticipation.
I have tested situations where I have been able to influence my boss to completely ignore, or even avoid me, while going about bothering everybody else at my work place (as he usually does)
So the possibilities for discovery and application are endless, just from maintaining silence (as much as possible) in day to day situations.
Oh... and finally I have changed from someone who worried about everything (20 years ago) to someone who rarely, ever worries; and when I do, I'm able to catch it right away and analyze why instead of daydreaming my worry.
All of that came out of learning just a little bit of inner silence, and I have a long way to go.
In additional to the beauty here, I feel it is more addressing my current universal life message, that is, everything is happening in perfect time, at the precise correct time.
With this knowledge, you can really relax and believe you are doing everything perfectly already, according to universal plan.
Once you really relax into this, stresses begin to evaporate miraculously, and your life starts to become more miraculous. If you have desires to 'know' things such as pure conscioiusness, the speed to which you get to them paradoxically quickens.
Eckharte Tolle reached enlightenment at the best possible time he did so.
I also believe Bashar mentions this on a similar notion, how, once you after comfortable with however long something will take to manifest, being happy with that time period ironically shortens down the time :)
Best advise I can give is to relax and check where you are on the universal destination you are planned to go: which is where you are right now. That's great because you're there all the time!
answered 17 Jun '13, 10:11
I have an old ebook from 2007 called The Power of Defocusing it is a book by Anthony Kollar. This was a very good book. You may find it if you google search for it, the website is down now. I found it still on the Wayback machine but you wouldn't be able to order the book throughclick bank anymore that way I don't believe.
answered 24 Feb '12, 06:11
well kriegerd i have all ready answer you in the comment section. but i will make a better answer here. the key is the focus it help you being aware more aware then you normally are. and the more you practice the more easy it becomes. your awareness and concentration will boost up. and you will start to see things that you are normally not aware about. the first obstacle that you will encounter doing meditation is the body so try to be comfortable sitting straight focus on a point in front of you that is not there i do not say to imagine it i say focus eventually you should see that point in front of you. it might take a fee day to reach this from my experience. after 1 week you should start to see some light pass by in that focus spot that is the though and emotion not solve in your mind that put obstacle in your window of perception. the job is to analyse them until they are fully understood and put to rest. you can slow them down to analyse them but you cannot stop them. if you try to stop them you will only put some ignore paint on them and eventually they will come back and you will say i though i add stopped it but it is still there. and will have to start the same job again. so take your time and do a good analysing job. even if you do only 1 though or emotion per day it is worth it. and you will see how though and emotion are linked. after a fee month when there will be no more unsolved though and emotion in you. you will experience what is called dhayna your mind will be clear rid of barrier. then your focus awareness concentration will be boosted you will have a still mind.
Dhyāna in Sanskrit (Devanagari: ध्यान) or jhāna (झान) in Pāli can refer to either meditation or meditative states. Equivalent terms are "Chán" in modern Chinese, "Zen" in Japanese, "Seon" in Korean, "Thien" in Vietnamese, and "Samten" in Tibetan.
As a meditative state, dhyāna is characterized by profound stillness and concentration. It is discussed in the Pāli canon (and the parallel agamas) and post-canonical Theravāda Buddhist literature, and in other literature. There has been little scientific study of the states so far.
after that if you continue you will experience something that is similar to the moon state(seam it is called space out in english or remote mind) that some people experience in there life when they get lost in their though. the only difference is that you have no unsolve though or emotion anny more. so you are going in awareness focus and concentration. what will happen is that you will go further then the moon state you will lose earing and seeing. then you will see again but with out the body. and your spirit will see the light. coming in this world like a door that has been open. and your spirit will go in this light. and you will see other people of light like your self. they will talk to you using the golden light. in them you will see though and emotion in the same way you see someone smile in life. the biggest light at the far end or in the middle when you get there is god the source if you are pure of heart you can talk with him but do not ask to much question he know best. it is not that he will not answer you but you might get to much info to retain or sustain it all even in your light form. then you can stay there or come back. he will tell you and show you that you made the choice to experience this life. experience and enjoy.
i have also added those link that you might like.
"Those who turn from delusion back to reality, who meditate on walls, the absence of self and other, the oneness of mortal and sage, and who remain unmoved even by scriptures are in complete and unspoken agreement with reason".
If you can simply concentrate your mind’s Inner Light and behold its outer illumination, you’ll dispel the three poisons and drive away the six thieves once and for all. And without effort gain possession of an infinite number of virtues, perfections, and doors to the truth, Seeing through the mundane and witnessing the sublime is less than an eye-blink away, Realization is now. Why worry about gray hair? But the true door is hidden and can’t be revealed. I have only touched upon beholding the mind.
Witnessing the flow of mind: Witnessing your thoughts is a most important aspect of Yoga practice. Witnessing the thought process means to be able to observe the natural flow of the mind, while not being disturbed or distracted. This brings a peaceful state of mind, which allows the deeper aspects of meditation and samadhi to unfold, revealing that which is beyond, which is Yoga or Unity.
Kriegerd, the truth is...
Individuals who have suffered a pattern of alienation in childhood, are subject to acquiring chronic anxieties that will cause major offsets in their career path.
According to my research, chronic anxiety is now the single most debilitating disease and/or disease exacerbating condition the world has ever known...
I currently estimate that more than 15% of the world's population suffers from the condition. That means that more than a billion people are now living with diseases that were both initiated and fueled by chronic anxiety -- and are daily suffering from those mounting health-destroying and career-debilitating side-effects.
I saw this situation coming more that 20 years ago...
That's when I could begin to foresee and forecast the events of 2010 -- the year that the primary CAUSES of the whole range of combined, accumulated and exacerbated international social and economic anxieties...
a). Attention Deficit Disorders. b). Systematic Substance Abuses. c). Post Traumatic Stress Disorders. d). The Epidemic of Chronic Disease. e). Hyperactive Personality Disorders.
... would ultimately become the foundation and footing for the longest-lasting and most devastating international monetary crisis the world has never known!
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