Example: if I want to manifest weight loss, there is a simple brute-force method to do it (restrain the desire to eat consistently). If I want to manifest muscle gain, there is a simple brute-force method to do it (eat enough, rest enough and handle heavy weights consistently). These things may not feel good as such but they give you a sensation of control and expectation; if blocks arise the simple choice to persist overcomes them.

Is there some kind of template for a general, simple, brute-force method to manifest specific objective changes in your reality?

Subtlety seems to be the main element in everything I see and it is actually a very difficult thing to handle; to the point that it just makes me wonder if the reason these methods are so subtle is that they are bs and there needs to be lots of room to explain why things didn't work out.

asked 20 Jan '13, 16:10

flowsurfer's gravatar image


edited 20 Jan '13, 16:20

I haven't read the whole thread yet but I want to say something regarding the "do the process just to feel better and not to manifest" advice that Stingray often gives. Doing a process just to feel better feels bad. It heightens the feeling of being powerless and generates a feeling of longing and separation.

(20 Jan '13, 22:47) flowsurfer

the brute force method for weight loss as little to do with eating it as to do with moving and excercising. on less the only moving and excercising you do is eating. and usely people on diet get twice as fat,because they are in need of what they have sacrifice and eat twice as much. like always be in harmony and do not go in extremes. you that have the name flowsurfer should know that: when you surf where do you stand on the board? front? back?left? right? of course not you stand in the middle.

(20 Jan '13, 22:56) white tiger

@flowsurfer Check out that "surfing the desire" part. But if nothing else works i would recommend to surrender which works every time if you honestly do it, guaranteed. And as i mentioned in the other thread: use a technique (for instance the one i mentioned) to surrender every day or just surrender the way you like to (maybe with prayer or just feeling surrender fully in your way). I know you want specifics and a how to so have a look at this technique. http://goo.gl/amvD4

(20 Jan '13, 23:07) releaser99

What do you do when you surrender? I ask because I have had experiences which to me felt like surrender and I just ended up back where I was before, "vibrationally", even if it took a few days because I had to actually live life and respond to things. How do I live my life when I surrender? What motivation do I have to do anything other than lay down and sleep? Can you describe an example of a surrendering experience?

(20 Jan '13, 23:25) flowsurfer

@releaser99 do you really think that @flowsurfer need to surrender he need to take action make a first step and keep walking. sitting down and complaining pitying him self wanting to destroy him self being under control of is own darkness does not help him he needs to be the light that he can be. what is the speed of light? 299,792,458 metres per second so lets go @flowsurfer take the first step on your 1000 steps journey.

(20 Jan '13, 23:36) white tiger

@white tiger You have already told me I can't get to where I want to be and walk the path I want to walk, so why are you telling me to start walking?

(20 Jan '13, 23:42) flowsurfer

@white tiger I don't know what he needs. Only he can know it. But what i know is that surrender works!

(21 Jan '13, 00:09) releaser99

@flowsurfer you said:You have already told me I can't get to where I want to be and walk the path I want to walk, so why are you telling me to start walking? i did not told you that you told your self because you believe your darkness and what the world dictate and tell you.your answer show that you are still in darkness and still believe him.

(21 Jan '13, 00:35) white tiger

@flowsurfer but you could use that negative energy to meditate and move from that false center darkness (ego) to true center light find a peaceful spot that you will go sit down each day. and say god i will come and sit here each day until you answer me. go there each day and sit down look in front of you and wait.

(21 Jan '13, 00:48) white tiger
showing 1 of 10 show 9 more comments


Actually surrender is the easiest thing to do. Asking how to surrender is like asking how to not hold a 500 pound barbell on your shoulders all the time.

ffalt textff

You simply put it down, let go, give up, stop trying and relax your body and mind.

But there must be one ingredient in place first. It is trust. Trust that it is ok to give up. Trust that god/universe will take care of you. Trust that all is well.

How can you achieve trust? You have 2 options.

  1. Trust because you want to believe it (simple).
  2. Or trust because you feel so much pain that you cannot do it anymore. You simply give up and surrender because it is the last resort. You have no other option.

1 is easy. 2 is hard because you need pain to let go. You must be in a extreme stage of pain like just before commiting suicide (that's how i learned surrender myself)

I recommend choosing option 1.

Here is an example of how your surrendering experience could look like.

You shut down your pc, sit on a couch and... you do nothing.

You could close your eyes and say for instance: "I will surrender for the next minute completely. I give up completely. I trust in you god! I give up. I will do nothing. Come and get me if this is what you want! Do whatever you want with me! I know you love me and i love you. Thank you. I give up. I surrender".

Then after surrendering for 60 seconds you do another 60. And then another 5 minutes, then 15 minutes, then 4 hours etc.

The next day you could write down all your issues, desires, aspirations that you have right in your life. And then you could write or say "I give up. I will do nothing about this issues. Simply nothing. I give up. I surrender. I trust in god and that all will be ok without me doing anything. Thank you." And you will then do... nothing.

There will come up emotions and justifications. "Maybe this is bs. I should do something.". No, that's not surrender. Real surrender is doing nothing or at least just doing things that feel REALLY inspired. All other actions in order to wanting to solve issues are not necessary.

There will come up pain and very unconfortable feelings. If they come you surrender to them. You let them in. You let them be. You let your thoughts be. You don't resist them. You give up and let feelings and thoughts do whatever they want to do with you. As if they were entities on their own and you were their slave.

You surrender to them as if you have choosen them deliberately. You let them make whatever they want with you. Because you accept that you cannot do anything about them. You give up and let go, let them pass through you.

And the moment you truly surrender the pain will disappear almost magically. Maybe after 5, 10 or 300 minutes you will be in the vortex... simply by surrendering. And you will realize that surrender is like magic. It will bring you hope and manifestations without you having to do anything when you keep surrendering all the time.

(Inner body) Meditation and other techniques can help with surrendering. But ultimately it is all about you and your attitude. Trust and surrender, trust and surrender... Nothing more, nothing less.


answered 21 Jan '13, 00:07

releaser99's gravatar image



I have gone through what you describe at least twice; when the pain got to the point where I just snapped. It would be difficult to describe the experience; the short story is that emotions would flatline then boredom and discomfort would motivate me to take action (eat, for example) and this action orientation slowly creeped into the major issues which triggered the surrender, leading to a loss of trust and collapse back into despair and fear. However, your answer resonates with me.

(21 Jan '13, 00:41) flowsurfer

Very nice answer! I can see why your screen name is releaser99... I must try this process out some time, will re-read your post after I finish work :)

(21 Jan '13, 05:39) cassiopeia

@flowsurfer The "trick" is to not stop surrendering. Even surrender into feelings of flatlining and boredom or discomfort. Do what you have to do (eating etc.) and then keep surrendering again until it becomes a habit. @cassiopeia Actually i don't know why i chose this screen name :). I just wanted to post something helpful and leave this site for good. But something got me interested so i stayed:)

(21 Jan '13, 11:49) releaser99

@releaser99 Perfect!

and that is the trick of letting go to let it in, letting go to enter peace and vortex, I always do this spontaneously, but you described it so much smooth.

Love your answer soooooooo

(21 Jan '13, 12:20) r0la

"I will surrender for the next minute completely. I give up completely. I trust in you god! I give up. I will do nothing. Come and get me if this is what you want! Do whatever you want with me! I know you love me and i love you. Thank you. I give up. I surrender".

Can you tell more about that 'technically' in a clear post??

(21 Jan '13, 12:22) r0la

@releaser99, great post on surrendering again!!! :) I am still trying out the advice on other post of yours in response to my comment. maybe you could also link that answer of yours here? I could not do it as i dont have enough points. Also, i would love to see your response to my recent question, about my beliefs about what other peoples' beliefs might be, its causing me so much confusion and inner turmoil, I would love to have your stand on how to deal with it.

(21 Jan '13, 13:29) dreamersmiles

@r0la Thank you. What do you mean by "technically"? Do you want to know why the process works in your mind? Or do you want to know what you should do step by step to apply this? @dreamersmiles Thanks. I'll have a look at your question later.

(22 Jan '13, 09:30) releaser99

@releaser99, Surrender is the KEY! Thank you :)

(22 Jan '13, 09:47) figure8shape

@figure8shape You are welcome:).

(22 Jan '13, 11:05) releaser99

@releaser99, Unconsciously I know this process by instinct, let it go TO let it in, Some how I know how & why it works but not so clear,

Yes when you have the time, can you illustrate more as you have the ability to do about it in general How it works and how to apply it step by step.

Indeed I read a lot about it but I love your simplicity in applying process, no much complicated steps which fits my understanding to things more.

(22 Jan '13, 11:42) r0la

@r0la Check out the sedona method for further info ( http://delicioushealing.com/quick-start-for-the-sedona-method/ ) or ask this as a new question and i will give you my personal take on this with a step by step process.

(22 Jan '13, 12:43) releaser99
showing 2 of 11 show 9 more comments

Here is the simplest answer that came to me.Stop doing what bothers you and start living from your heart.It's All in the Flow.Love and Light.


answered 20 Jan '13, 16:21

Roy's gravatar image


edited 20 Jan '13, 17:38

That is vague to the point of meaninglessness. What bothers me is not something I do and I have no idea what you mean by "living from your heart".

(20 Jan '13, 16:27) flowsurfer

Im not surprised.:)

(20 Jan '13, 16:29) Roy

You were not helpful.

(20 Jan '13, 17:12) flowsurfer

You asked for a simple answer and I gave you one ,sorry it does not resonate with you. Love and Light.

(20 Jan '13, 17:22) Roy

That is not a simple answer, that's a vague answer. Which means it is a complex answer. Simplicity is not determined by the number of words you use.

(20 Jan '13, 17:42) flowsurfer

IT IS ALL, a matter of Perspective.:)

(20 Jan '13, 17:44) Roy

There is no Brute force answer , its meant to be ease and flow , ironic that your nickname is Flowsurfer , I'm wondering why you want it to be hard , you recently wrote of chilling out , doing your porn thing , also that you didn't want to work etc , it's almost like there's two of you at war against each other , I'm not trying to be unhelpfull but sometimes an outsider can see a veiw that may not be available to you .I do so hope you are able to find some solace here soon ♥♥

(20 Jan '13, 18:25) Starlight

Starlight, You are so so right,WE are here for each OTHER.Love and Light

(20 Jan '13, 18:33) Roy

Hey Roy :-) , I just listened to this , you might like it

Abraham ....I give up


(20 Jan '13, 18:41) Starlight

Chilling out makes me feel imprisoned. I want to be the creator of my life, to live in a state of freedom. There is no joy in life without that, everything (including porn) feels like energy being restrained. If the freedom to create involves work, I'll work. The only thing I have against work is its futility relative to what I desire to create. Work that is aligned feels wonderful.

(20 Jan '13, 18:42) flowsurfer

Starlight That Is Perfect.Love and Light.

(20 Jan '13, 18:54) Roy

Flowsurfer,Reach For The Stars,It Is Your Choice.Love and Light.

(20 Jan '13, 18:58) Roy

Then if you personally need to go hard to "feel" better, to "feel" free, pick something and get on it, you are the only one who can decide what that may be :-)

(20 Jan '13, 19:01) Starlight

@Starlight - Excellent link. Is this your compilation? I'm asking this as one if the theme songs happened to be the song starlight by Muse. :)

(20 Jan '13, 19:08) Satori

I am unable to gain relief from that advice because all paths seem futile; it doesn't matter if I go soft or hard, if I feel pleasure or pain, if I focus on one thing or another, if I take action or slack off, I feel imprisoned. A lot of the advice I have received reinforces that sense of imprisonment. The search for a brute force method of manifestation is simply a desperate attempt to break free at all costs, to stop moving in circles.

(20 Jan '13, 19:10) flowsurfer

@Satori , wow , I love sychronicity , lol. No not mine but funnily enough at the moment I am right into Muse's "Feeling Good " , I play it so much , I feel how I imagine a junkie does :-) Also prefer Starlight by The Supermen Lovers , old but goody

(20 Jan '13, 19:12) Starlight

Imprisoned....I would really like to hear your definition of that word?

(20 Jan '13, 19:15) Roy

Imprisoned: hampered and not free; restricted; not able to act at will; held back or kept in check; controlled; subjugated; overpowered; retrained; deprived of freedom; limited; reduced to slavery; helpless; powerless.

(20 Jan '13, 19:26) flowsurfer

@flowsurfer , you are so hard on yourself , I really do hope that you find what you are looking for . Wishing you Light and Love always ♥♥♥

(20 Jan '13, 19:29) Starlight

You Have Full Dominion,AT WILL....

(20 Jan '13, 19:48) Roy

If that is true, how do I recognize it?

(20 Jan '13, 20:47) flowsurfer

@Roy absolutely, it's all about 'flow'. For some, blockages need to be worked out & pathways opened.

(20 Jan '13, 21:56) ele

@flowsurfer Follow your passion (heart).

(20 Jan '13, 22:00) ele

@ele What does that actually mean in practice? What is "your heart"? I thought I knew the answer to that in the past but it brought me nothing but pain and heartbreak so maybe I don't. This sort of advice just makes me more confused.

(20 Jan '13, 22:19) flowsurfer

@flowsurfer in the context I used 'heart'. 'follow your passion' - it means do what you love - what gives you joy. Follow your heart's desire. I realize your aim is to be a model & due to your vertical limitations it would be very challenging. If people choose occupations based on what they love to do, it doesn't feel like work. You also said you liked beautiful women. Think of opportunities where you will be surrounded by beauty.

(20 Jan '13, 22:41) ele

@flowsurfer You are over thinking ALL of this. Still your mind & the answers you are seeking will come. I don't think you know your own heart. Start feeling instead of thinking. All your answers are within.

(20 Jan '13, 22:42) ele

@ele The desire to be a model comes from my own heart; when I was not listening to my heart and was listening to my "mind" instead (ego?), I cared about politics and money and thought of life as a game with points and goals. It took me a lot of "work" to let go of all the fear and resentment I had of and in the world by believing in a power higher than the world. Not being able to follow the path that makes me feel really good strikes a very deep(er) fear in me which makes all paths repulsive.

(20 Jan '13, 23:52) flowsurfer

@flowsurfer Did you give up your job? Do you pray to God to make you taller or for stuff? If so, that's not goin' work.

(21 Jan '13, 01:19) ele

@ele Yes. If you are right I'll end my life within a few years, there is no way I'll make it past 30. There is no plan b. Either God loves me or not.

(21 Jan '13, 01:32) flowsurfer

@flowsurfer again you are in the false center of your self,do you want a violon with that, make it a song,will you? why not ask God?then you will not have to kill your self he will beam you up. and if you do not want to return you can stay there above in the kingdom. for everyone else down here you will have die of unknow cause or heart attack etc... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQrsvmDNG1c

(21 Jan '13, 01:41) white tiger

@flowsurfer I never said God doesn't love you. Do you love God? Why does God have to prove his love? What have you done for God or given God? Does he demand proof from you? Isn't God love? Aren't you God? Do you love yourself?

(21 Jan '13, 04:07) ele

@ele Prove? God has to express his love because God can. If you had a dog and it was hungry, would you look at it and feel love while it starved or would you express that love by feeding and playing with the dog? There is nothing I, or anyone else, can do for or give to God, we can only receive. There is nothing God demands of me because there is nothing I can give God. Am I God? Yes, in a sense (which I do not claim to understand) God is an aspect of myself and I am an aspect of God.

(21 Jan '13, 04:48) flowsurfer

@ele I didn't say God didn't love me. Your claim that "that's not going to work" can only be made if you are holding that idea. I'm choosing not to hold that idea.

(21 Jan '13, 04:59) flowsurfer

@flowsurfer - Please do NOT twist my words. "that's not going to work" has nothing to do with God's love for you. In your example, if you express your love for a pet who gives you unconditional love with food, all you're going to get is a fat dog. One could also say the dog is God.

(21 Jan '13, 20:44) ele

It has EVERYTHING to do with God's love for me. Pets don't give unconditional love. You are trying to push the analogy in an illogical direction. Human beings are completely dependent on God; that is what "God" means, that which supports/causes our existence. He gives castles to mass murderers and cancer to little children, he doesn't choose what is best for each of us. Mass murderers can have what they have and some people can have what I want so there is no real reason to deny me what I want.

(21 Jan '13, 21:11) flowsurfer

@ele The only reason for God to deny any request I make would be that God does not love me. The only reason other than that for me not having what I want is that I am giving him contradictory requests on some level.

(21 Jan '13, 21:17) flowsurfer

@flowsurfer " he doesn't choose what is best for each of us" I agree, we have free will. Pets - you are free to believe whatever you wish. Why do you think the mass murder can live in a castle & you can't? BTW, you never answered my ?, Do you love you?

(21 Jan '13, 21:23) ele

@ele I don't want to live in a castle. You would have to define the "you" in the question for me to answer. Do I love the person I am right now, objectively? Absolutely not. Do I love my life? Absolutely not. Do I love my inner self? Yes, I do. And because I love my inner self I don't think it should be forced to struggle in pain and limitation, but be free to play the game of human life as it desires to play it.

(21 Jan '13, 21:40) flowsurfer

@flow I'm not going to debate dogs, ok. You are the one with the problems; not a dog. "I don't think that is going to work" - I was stating my personal belief. I do not believe God is Santa Claus. There are many religious people on this forum who ask God for 'stuff'; like houses, money, etc. I never have & I never will. I'm not saying they are wrong & I am right. For me, it doesn't feel right. Glad to hear you love the inner you; but I think harmony is required - body, mind & spirit.

(21 Jan '13, 21:49) ele

@ele I agree that there is no point debating dogs, so I deleted the comment. What do you believe God is? The only way you can have a house is if God gives it to you. You may be vain enough to want to pretend that you "earned it" somehow and God seems happy to let you play that game but it's still God's gift to you and nothing more. Your personal belief is incompatible with the belief in God's unconditional love.

(21 Jan '13, 21:58) flowsurfer

@flowsurfer if God love unconditionnally,and God gives to you and every one else.then what are you waiting for? why do you pity your self?why do you believe this world that wants to dictate you and make you fail?are you waiting for a sign? http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/imageuploads/1242038977_80.177.117.97.jpg

(21 Jan '13, 22:16) white tiger

@flowsurfer "earned it" has nothing to do with God & is not part of my ego or beliefs either. When I get something I really want, I don't say I earned it. If I don't get something I really want, I don't blame God & I don't say God must not love me. Also after further reflection, I was wrong when I said you probably could not grow 8 or 9 inches & become a model - several possibilities come to mind.

(21 Jan '13, 22:22) ele

@white tiger You are right, I shouldn't believe this world. I shouldn't believe that I can't be the height I want. God will cause me to grow and heal all other barriers to the expression of my desire.

(21 Jan '13, 22:25) flowsurfer

@flowsurfer "Your personal belief is incompatible with the belief in God's unconditional love." Ok then, we agree to disagree - you believe God is Santa Claus (stuff) & I don't. IMO, God just does not work that way. God doesn't have to prove anything to you - the proof already exists. Love is everything - it's energy - it's vibration. Change your vibe and your world will change. @white tiger - liked your links.

(21 Jan '13, 22:54) ele

you want to know how to change the world son? one act of random kindness at a time. http://x4c.xanga.com/cc4f46fa36231271122636/m216244217.jpg http://westernthm.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/god_freewill.gif in your case i add a little(smile) ha ha ,but i know you can make it. be the light that you can be,experience and enjoy.

(21 Jan '13, 23:04) white tiger

@white tiger - not sure about the links but I agree with random acts of kindness & have posted my thoughts about this before. Appreciation is also an integral part of manifesting (for me).

(21 Jan '13, 23:28) ele

@white tiger The thought that you are mean kid with a magnifying glass didn't come to me before, but now that you mention it, that is a pretty accurate description of your behavior. I'm deeply hurt and genuinely tired and I have no more patience for your nonsense. It is not my desire to discuss any of this with anyone and I haven't found relief here, so why post here? God knows my heart. Either God will respond to it or it won't. I'm tired of waiting.

(22 Jan '13, 00:43) flowsurfer

@flowsurfer you might think that it is nonsense but think again.but if you cannot handle the truth, do what you will.

(22 Jan '13, 01:28) white tiger
showing 2 of 50 show 48 more comments

There is an AWESOMELY brutal force way to manifest! It's called YOU CAN! In your comments and in your questions there are a lot I can't,it doesn't,I don't <br

The Power of I Am by DR. WAYNE W. DYER

Throughout life you’ve been through a conditioning process that’s created a mind-set overflowing with I am nots. As a schoolchild with a less than satisfactory grade on your report card, you thought to yourself, I am not smart. You place anywhere other than number one and say, I am not talented. You feel criticized and believe that I am not good. You look in the mirror and compare yourself to a glamorous movie idol or homecoming queen and tell yourself, I am not attractive. Your relationship fractures and you think, I am unloved or I am unworthy. These, and many more like them, are repeated throughout your developmental years and into adulthood, and become your core defining self-concept. Overcoming this I am not mentality begins with trusting your inner world of spirit. There are no boundaries restricting your inner world. But your worldview and your self-concept in the outer world are defined by your five senses. The outer world is always changing, which, by our definition, means it is not real. This awareness that what remains unchanging is the only reality could lead you to experiencing a majestic wake-up call right here, right now. Run through as large an inventory as you can of the things that you would like to define your life. Then make the shift in your imagination from an I am not or I am hoping to become to I am. You want what follows I am to be congruent with your highest self, which is God. Beginning with your inner dialogue, simply change the words that define your concept of yourself. Redefine your self-concept by choosing the words that you opt to place into your imagination. Try this rewording of your inner world as a beginning step to accessing the assistance of your higher self and fulfilling your desires. Instead of I am incapable of getting a job, shift to I am capable. Similarly, replace proclamations of I am not able to live in peace with I am peace. I am unlucky in love is replaced by I am love. I am unworthy of happiness becomes I am happiness. The words I am, which you consistently use to define who you are and what you are capable of, are holy expressions for the name of God—the highest aspect of yourself. Break lifelong habits of unwittingly besmirching this holy name. Discontinue using pejorative labels to cast aspersions on your holy self. Always make your very first consideration the honoring of your Divine spirit. This will allow you to rise to previously unimagined heights. Teach your outer self to accept the unlimited power of your inner spirit and the things you place in your imagination can become true for you.

@flowsurfer I have a metaphoric view of where you are in life. You want to race in the Indy 500 ,you have the ability and the drive. But your driving a geo metro with 100,000 miles on it with a learners permit!alt text
You need some more time behind the wheel and work on your driving style. You need to get some track time. The drivers of Indy cars start often their careers in go-carts! But every race in that go-cart is like the 500 to them.

Do some reading flowsurfer Ask and its given, The power of Now ,Think and grow rich ,Change Your Thoughts - Change Your Life are good starters (and or listen to audio versions). Don't give up bro! YOU CAN do this!


answered 21 Jan '13, 02:43

ursixx's gravatar image



Haha, love the image, @ursixx!

(21 Jan '13, 06:40) Bedazzled

@ursixx, Thanks! :)

(22 Jan '13, 09:45) figure8shape

This is putting the deed before the belief, LOA works this way. It also works when putting the belief first. To do and achieve anything one must believe in it if one is to see results.

Now this is where the two cross, both need the belief but both also need the deed the action part. So many times people in LOA lose it at the application part. You are willing to do the hardest part and the fact that you do will keep up the belief.

This is why there are very many successful people applying LOA that never even heard of it. It has been turned into formulas and methods but it comes to belief and action. In that belief and action comes the attraction for what you are choosing to believe while applying the action. Example if I apply action with an opposite belief I attract what the belief has been about the action. How likely am I to finish a race if I enter not sure I can even make it to the finish line?


answered 20 Jan '13, 17:42

Wade%20Casaldi's gravatar image

Wade Casaldi

But within that framework, isn't belief just produced by awareness of proper actions? If you don't believe in the proper actions you won't bother to take them. But how do you become aware of proper actions? The conventional answer is simple, science; that is literally the definition of science.

(20 Jan '13, 17:58) flowsurfer

@flowsurfer i prefer being aware of the truth,since science is discovering and learning about the truth. be aware of truth.

(20 Jan '13, 23:04) white tiger
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