Let's say I think it would be great if the United States federal government and all of its state governments abolished income taxes, completely (including capital gains taxes, which are just a special category of income tax). Could I manifest a world in which this happens? What if I wanted to manifest a world with open borders, so anyone can live and work anywhere. Can I? My thought over the past few years has been that "why bother, I can work around all these laws; but what if I could get rid of them entirely? What if I could choose to have the leader of North Korea die of a heart or have a change of heart? Are political leaders masters of the law of attraction?

asked 15 Apr '13, 20:18

flowsurfer's gravatar image


edited 15 Apr '13, 20:26


Why does it matter to you if the US has taxes? You live in Latin America.

(16 Apr '13, 01:19) ele

But of course, enslaved people need not pay any taxes as they unite under the flag of one world order, where there are no borders just one planet.

Perhaps finally we'd be able to unite, and since there would be no more disputes amongst countries, we'd set off to conquer the whole space. Colonizing galaxy after galaxy, inhibiting planets and subduing any alien race that cross our way.


Sounds great and I can't wait! =))

(16 Apr '13, 02:45) CalonLan
(16 Apr '13, 03:10) ursixx

I said nothing about "no taxes". I merely said no income taxes. I think all levels of government could be financed just fine at current levels with nothing but an intelligently designed property tax. I would prefer the government to be much smaller but I recognize taxes as a tribute (something you give to thugs so they leave you alone); I don't particularly care about taxes, I just wish they just took the money instead of taking the money plus being a pain in the ass about it.

(16 Apr '13, 03:35) flowsurfer

@flowsurfer Property Taxes! I think you meant a sales taxes in lieu of an income tax which I would support. That way everyone pays. (I said what I did to get a reaction out of you)

(16 Apr '13, 04:32) ele

No, sales taxes are just as bad, if not worse, than income taxes. Property taxes are universal (they don't target any one group in particular) because everyone needs a place to stay (to sleep, play or work) and has to pay somehow for it (even if indirectly through higher prices on bread due to the taxes charged on the farmland and all the supply network). If properly designed, they are also impossible to evade. The richer pay more because they use more (and more valuable) land but everyone pays.

(16 Apr '13, 11:51) flowsurfer

Yes it is a worthwhile endeavor: become a politician. We need representatives of the people who truly care first and foremost about the people.

If you guys ever see me getting into politics you should be a bit worried and/or excited.. >=]

(16 Apr '13, 18:04) Snow

@flowsurfer Please send me a link or two regarding your property tax solution. I'm listening. The reason sales tax could work & IMO a fairer tax is because people who evade income taxes would pay taxes when they purchase goods or services. Everyone would be taxed equally & the more you purchase in a year, the more taxes you would pay. Obviously for this to work, there would need to be an exemption for the poor.

(16 Apr '13, 19:13) ele

I've been working on things like "easy ways to promote economic growth" and safeguards against depressions. Also things like ways to facilitate that housing, food & health be easily supported rights for all; and openly accepting immigration (like that tiny effing idea that America was FOUNDED ON -_- ) while causing it to stimulate the economy (which it already does, and will do nothing but after handling aforementioned issues)

I'll consider taking a swing at taxes when I find a bigger bat. ^_^y

(16 Apr '13, 19:26) Snow

@Snow I'm glad to hear it. I told you a long time ago you could have a future in politics.

(16 Apr '13, 19:33) ele

"I'll consider taking a swing at taxes when I find a bigger bat." hmm... alter ego?

(16 Apr '13, 19:35) ele

@Snow Judging by what you are saying, your bright idea is composed of 1.Socialism ("easy ways to promote economic growth"/"safeguards against depressions") and 2.A Welfare State (housing, food and health as rights for all). I'm sorry to say but you are far from original and if I cared about politics at this point in my life, I would regard you as a political enemy. I just want the government to keep the peace and otherwise stay out of the way as much as possible.

(16 Apr '13, 20:50) flowsurfer

@Snow I most certainly don't want the government as a manager breathing down my neck at every corner to make sure I do things "the proper way". We have enough of that already, and you want more? Sorry, two thumbs down for you.

(16 Apr '13, 20:58) flowsurfer

@Snow That being said, I regard the government as basically a corporate intermediary for theft. So if the barbarian hordes need free food and etc, that is fine, but let's make it as simple and straightforward as possible: give every citizen a flat cash dividend every month and let them buy the food, housing and healthcare they want with it. Don't make things more complicated than they have to be. If handouts are necessary to keep the peace, like the tributes Rome paid barbarians, that is fine.

(16 Apr '13, 21:03) flowsurfer

I don't believe we should dictate what people do with their bodies nor what they put into it. I do believe if someone voluntarily does something with this freedom that increases their likelihood of harming someone else [increasing risk..] and does so [..without being responsible enough to handle it] then they should be punished more harshly. In the personal freedom sense, there would be more, not less. Food is not welfare, nor is room to live or being afforded healthy life. These must be rights.

(18 Apr '13, 00:29) Snow

Otherwise eventually one group will become so successful they will own all the space there is to own. Everyone must be allowed to survive, and it isn't difficult to do. If you can't figure out how to provide healthy life and education to all of your people then you have no business trying to lead. These are the most basic fundamental key parts of existence. If it's possible with sticks and stones, it's possible with more tools. More tools simply equate to more responsibility.

(18 Apr '13, 00:31) Snow

I look forward to seeing you in the political battlefield, I always enjoy a healthy debate to test the foundation of one's beliefs. This is how we grow. ^_^y

(18 Apr '13, 00:32) Snow

@Snow Please watch the 3000 year old secret. I believe this would be right up your alley. That is the Twelve Visions platform.

(18 Apr '13, 00:39) Wade Casaldi

I like what he says, and I would even go so far as to say he shouldn't be using the word 'government', but all life. The only emotion that will drive me to raise my body in violence and force is love. If I am fighting to protect someone I love there is nothing that will stop me until my objective is complete, at any cost up to and including my life. Similarly I can protect myself with that same love for others, because if I allow myself to fall then I will no longer be able to protect anyone.

(18 Apr '13, 00:52) Snow

Until our people embrace this same approach to their every day life as they would want our government to do in theirs, I fear our government will have difficulty accomplishing its appropriate role in existence. I have faith my generation will embrace this, because I am blessed in seeing this behavior more and more as I look for it in the kindness and hearts of others, especially some of the most unexpected places. I have faith and hope in our future, hopefully hope will be enough. ;) ^_^y

(18 Apr '13, 00:55) Snow

@Snow excellent, I wish I could get you in the S.O.S. but I have shown you Mark Hamilton. I believe you would love the Neo-Tech heirloom packages! A whole new way to think and believe our future could be.

(18 Apr '13, 01:13) Wade Casaldi

@Snow A healthy debate in the political battlefield? Politics is war, nothing less, nothing more. I do not however, care much about it because the spoils of that war are not that valuable. You say food, shelter and healthcare are "rights". Yet human beings are either inherently immortal (as consciousness) or inherently meaningless (as mortal animals, whose past is destroyed at death). What you are describing is the attempt to deify society, to find metaphysical security in other people.

(18 Apr '13, 02:01) flowsurfer

@Snow If you are charging taxes, or for that matter have any sort of law, you are dictating what people do with their bodies. That dictation requires you to exercise force upon their bodies when they refuse to comply. There is no "politics" in the absence of dictating what people do with their bodies, because we can't regulate anything else! Unless you just mean "I think in my socialist utopia people should be allowed to get high, as long as they do so in a socially responsible manner".

(18 Apr '13, 02:07) flowsurfer

Everything is war if your definition is a contest of wills. Just different games utilize different tools to meet varying ends.

Just because one is perceived as a mortal does not render them useless, nor even if they were immoral.

What I'm describing is recreating the same types of governments we have now with a hearty dose of logic, common sense, and understanding.

You're creating a strawman and arguing against it rather than what I said. My parameters were clear on my intent. ;)

(18 Apr '13, 14:03) Snow

I would continue to explain my standpoint however the administration around these parts appears to be keen on the idea of more strongly regulating the flow of information here. So, if you're really as not interested in the topic as you say (so much so you feel like discussing it) you can drop me an email, I gladly welcome discussions on this topic because it does interest me, and I like to grow. =)

(18 Apr '13, 14:05) Snow

@Snow Right, you want to make what exists already work better. That is what makes you an enemy of mine; I don't like what exists already and think the world would be much better if current institutions, including constitutional democracy itself, collapsed. Which is probably why they are collapsing, I am attracting that. In reality we live in an eternal state of anarchy and everything is bound to change sooner or later. At some point, the world we know will cease and we will enter a new age.

(18 Apr '13, 19:14) flowsurfer

@Snow Or at least I will. Maybe you'll exist in a parallel social-democratic utopia while I live in a world that is actually interesting and fun.

(18 Apr '13, 19:18) flowsurfer

@Snow & @flowsurfer - interesting dialogue. You should take the discussion to a political forum .

(19 Apr '13, 01:19) ele
showing 0 of 29 show 29 more comments

It's real easy to manifest a world in which all united states taxes are abolished, just live in another country, italy for example ... sure there are taxes in italy too, so to manifest a completely tax free world with open borders, live in a tax fee haven;


alt text


answered 16 Apr '13, 01:24

ru%20bis's gravatar image

ru bis


haha! @ru bis Why am I NOT surprised you know about tax free havens. I paid my taxes with a smile a couple hours ago. How about you @Wade oops, you prob got a refund. 2nd oops! I hope it was ru bis who voted my comment up. I said what I did with love & humor...

(16 Apr '13, 01:42) ele

Well your open borders part is a bit flawed but my question is not "can I stop paying taxes?". If we are constantly shifting between realities and all the other stuff Bashar says, why can't I shift to a reality where Italy or some even bigger country IS a tax-free haven with open borders?

(16 Apr '13, 03:42) flowsurfer

hello flowsurfer, yes i like your question ... "why can't i shift to a reality where italy or some even bigger country IS a tax-free haven with open borders?" ... in other words "why can't i shift realities" ... no one can do it for you, only you can find the answer to that question

(18 Apr '13, 02:32) ru bis
showing 2 of 3 show 1 more comments

Wow! I agreed with everything you said... until... you reached the point of the North Korean president. I can not agree with this idea.

Now making the world a fair free enterprise with no borders, where the best product or service wins is a good ideal vision.

This is a vision held by the S.O.S. a better world with the boundaries severed.

Health care cheap because of competition. In fact everything affordable because of competition.

The whole world would be working to bring the best at the most affordable. This is like what has happened with computers.


answered 16 Apr '13, 00:16

Wade%20Casaldi's gravatar image

Wade Casaldi

edited 16 Apr '13, 01:52

Dear, dear - No taxes! lol!

(16 Apr '13, 01:21) ele

Yes defense only budget. No regulations, because with everything open and nothing hidden the whole world has to complete the best for the least.

Quality would be a primary goal because the best gets bought. People don't let them selves get ripped off more than once.

competition drives down price and raises quality.

This creates a greater life style for all including the poor, (Me at least for now.)

(16 Apr '13, 01:39) Wade Casaldi

@Wade who is going to pay for fire protection?

(16 Apr '13, 01:45) ele

@ele Many cities around the world have mostly volunteer fire departments. People donate money and time for it quite easily.

(16 Apr '13, 03:38) flowsurfer

@flowsurfer lol! I hate to break it to you, those volunteer fire dept's are financed by tax payer dollars & that is a fact. The fireman are volunteers & only receive a stipend. Fire Protection & EMS are part of your property tax dollars .

(16 Apr '13, 04:31) ele

@ele Not that it matters to me because as I see it, the fire department SHOULD be financed by property taxes (because fire represents a danger to the entire community, not just individual property owners); but there are many cities where financial contributions to the fire department are voluntary.

(16 Apr '13, 11:56) flowsurfer

@flowsurfer You cannot purchase property insurance UNLESS your municipality or local has contracted for fire protection FIRST. Yes, donations help both paid & volunteer fire depts. Do you have any idea what fire equip costs? What do you suppose 1 pumper truck costs? Please show me any city which operates totally on donations. Additionally, volunteer FD's are customary in rural areas NOT cities.

(16 Apr '13, 18:49) ele

@ele I honestly have no desire to have a discussion regarding fire departments.

(16 Apr '13, 20:44) flowsurfer

@flowsurfer I concur, IQ is NOT the place to discuss politics or FD's. As for FD's - don't ever take FD's for granted. You brought both income taxes & FD's up & I was merely correcting & fact checking. I also recall you saying you left a career in politics to start manifesting & practicing the LOA. I would love to hear more about this part of your life sometime.

(16 Apr '13, 21:28) ele

I never said anything about leaving a career in politics @ele.

(17 Apr '13, 00:33) flowsurfer

@flowsurfer what exactly did you say in regards to politics ?

(17 Apr '13, 01:38) ele

@ele I honestly don't remember but I most definitely did not say that.

(18 Apr '13, 19:15) flowsurfer

@flowsurfer Is it possible you said it in jest? When someone says they had a career in politics, I take notice. I've mentioned this comment several times before, you never had a comment. Yes, I deleted my earlier comment on this thread.

(19 Apr '13, 01:16) ele
showing 2 of 13 show 11 more comments
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Asked: 15 Apr '13, 20:18

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Last updated: 19 Apr '13, 01:19

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