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Let me preface this very clearly before I say anything: I never intend for anything I say to be used as an encouragement to make judgement in a negative, authoritative, or offensive manner. I also have no intention of confronting, offending, or challenging anyone's beliefs or thoughts. I am merely asking for others to share their opinions as honestly as they can, with the understanding (and agreement) that no party involved in this discussion is making judgements about the thoughts and opinions shared therein. I am hoping that the above is already understood with any and all discussions taking place here, but I am clarifying my intentions just to be sure. . To the topic: I see many answers being given here having very strong religious based opinions, and I am wondering if that is normal? Encouraged? Tolerated? Discouraged? Specifically I see many 'God' and 'Satan' references, depicting benevolence on behalf of the former and 'evil' on the side of the latter. I personally was raised as a very strict Christian, which is likely the strongest reason I gave it up as soon as I reached the age of reason. It doesn't bother me in any way (and I actually enjoy) hearing people sharing other religions and thoughts than what I have faith in, and I actually regularly seek out education in any religion willing to teach me simply for the sake of learning. My other multi-dimensional question is: are religious conversations / discussions / debates / questions / answers allowed / encouraged / tolerated / discouraged / forbidden? For clarity once more, my use of the terminology 'debate' is meant in the scholarly way, as two educated and enlightened elders would share their thoughts in kindness, respect, and tolerance, listening openly to the opinions of the other.
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The question has been closed for the following reason "Discussions like this should be taken to IQ Meta" by IQ Moderator 30 Dec '13, 14:48
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Welcome to I.Q. Leo. Here on inward quest we can and do discuss everything from every aspect of spirituality and yes religion. Weather we like to admit it or not spirituality has its origin or birth in our inner God and at some level all of us learned about God through our religion no matter weather we follow that religion today or not. The fountain of source of spirituality comes directly through our inner God no matter who or what that is or means to us and yes even athiests believe in something bigger and higher than themselves out there and therefore unconsciously believe in God no matter what they call it...nature or whatever. You have come to the right place and it is wonderful to know that there is an actual place where Christian and Moslem and Hindu and Jew and Athiest and whoever can and do become as one through their discussions of their spirituality. It is wonderful to know that we can all learn from each other and love each other and respect each other no matter our differences. In fact differances here are welcomed for it is good to know how others think and feel and in the end to find out that we are all human and not realy that different at all for we all have more or less the same dream to be happy and healthy and do the best we can for ourselves and our families and the world arround us. Yes you will find a few that are zealous about their beliefs but take that with a pinch of salt and do not judge for all have a place here and you never know when you might just learn something from someone zealous about their beliefs. Here on Inward Quest we truly are all ONE. I have a little poem that Ibin'Arabi wrote that I truly love and it does sum up most of us here on I.Q. My heart can take on any form: a medow for gazelles, a cloister for monks, A temple for idols, the Ka'ba for pilgrims, the tablets of the Torah, the leaves of the Qur'an. I believe in the religion of love whichever way its caravan turns: Love is my religion and my faith. I simply love this and even though I'm a Liberal Christian of sorts in my mind when I read this poem I just add: or the pages of the bible. Welcom and we hope you find what you are looking for knowing we are all brothers and sisters in the eyes of our God. Beautiful answer, @Paulina 1. What a wise, gentle, and lovely person you are. I'm glad you're here.
(04 Mar '13, 23:50)
Grace
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There are people here of different faith and some that say they are atheist (although being an atheist and being spiritual seem opposed) Some are even Muslims. All are welcomed to share their points of view here. All are free to agree or disagree here as well by their votes or lack of votes for answers. 1
Some are 'even' Muslims, huh? You speak as if encountering a Muslim would surprise you, much less a spiritual one? Remember we discussed how the phrasing of a question can affect the validity of the answer? Similarly can the presentation of an idea affect the perception with which it is received. [I mean nothing I say to be taken in a hostile tone, merely bringing your attention to my perception of your words, in case a stranger's perception is of interest to you. I am fully confident that you meant absolutely no harm by it, of course. You're probably a more tolerant person than I. :) ]
(20 Nov '11, 04:46)
Leo
As for me... Despite the USA being my nation of birth I assure you I battle as zealously as I can to disassociate myself with any negative stereotypes about Americans, especially intolerance and bigotry of all forms. I have encountered Muslims in conversation in the past, as well as many other religions. I know enough about Islam to know that they are extremely similar to the other monotheistic religions, and the same 'Jesus Christ' manages to make appearances as well. So finding 'enlightened' Muslims surprises me no more than enlightened atheists, christians, jews, or anything else.
(20 Nov '11, 04:47)
Leo
Ahh yes I see what you mean. I and a friend of mine that was Muslim I knew from Indonesia used talk for hours comparing my Christian teaching and his Muslim teaching. We were both friends and enjoyed these conversations. We found much we could agree on in understanding, the wording would be different but the meaning underneath was what really mattered.
(20 Nov '11, 05:01)
Wade Casaldi
Example, Rumi wrote some very good stuff.
(20 Nov '11, 05:11)
Wade Casaldi
Indeed. All religions started with good people teaching equality, fairness, logic, love, kindness, tolerance, objectivity, and peace. These good people were almost always killed for their teaching through one method or another, (though the historical accounts may vary) and usually by the same religions that idolize them now that they're gone. These teachings are fundamental understandings of life, something any person can feel deep inside themselves if they are quiet and listen. Religions on the other hand teach hatred, intolerance, cruelty, murder, and damnation by a wrathful and cruel god.
(20 Nov '11, 05:14)
Leo
i think what wade was saying is that allah hates. and they have some fanatic over there doing terror act. and thinking they do allah wish. i have even been told by one that i was damn because i told her that i know that God is true but i do not believe in religion. so maybe that is what wade was trying to point out.
(20 Nov '11, 05:36)
white tiger
No White Tiger you have me wrong, I appreciate you trying to clarify for me but in this case you are putting words into my mouth I am not saying.
(20 Nov '11, 05:47)
Wade Casaldi
well wade there is a reason you said some are even muslim.
(20 Nov '11, 05:56)
white tiger
Leo agreed except on Religions but I do believe misunderstanding people take things wrong and use religion to justify their prejudice and judgements even murders. These are not advanced in their religions but (as in Christianity referred to as Baby Christians) are through their ignorance of the true depth of their teachers (I use teachers to represent all religions) they use their limited understanding as weapons to justify cruelty. Take the Inquisition as example, it does not matter it was a Pope he obviously did not understand Jesus saying forgive, turn the other cheek, and love as I love
(20 Nov '11, 05:58)
Wade Casaldi
Boys, it is time for bed. Wade did not really mean to disparage anyone; he was very tired when he wrote his answer, as he taught three hours of Karate today....So I am saying "Good Night" from Wade! It is time to close the discussion. I suggest you guys move to the chat room! Love, Wade's Girl, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
(20 Nov '11, 06:10)
Jaianniah
Hmm. I think you are correct, my understanding is Allah hates and loves, though I haven't read it myself. I do know with absolute certainty however the Christian God is a self proclaimed wrathful and jealous God who will condemn people to hell and only loves those who follow him and nobody else. But we are getting dramatically off point. I'm sure there is ample time for us to discuss the merits and flaws of all of the religions, in their own time. I think I should go and rest as well. My mind has plenty new input to process, much of it stemming from this site. Thank you all for sharing. =)
(20 Nov '11, 06:17)
Leo
well good night folks. enjoy the sleep and the nice dream. experience and enjoy.
(20 Nov '11, 06:20)
white tiger
Leo, you said earlier: "Religions on the other hand teach hatred, intolerance, cruelty, murder, and damnation by a wrathful and cruel god." And you also said this: "the Christian God is a self proclaimed wrathful and jealous God who will condemn people to hell and only loves those who follow him and nobody else." I think you are very wrong! The CHRISTIAN God of Jesus is not the same God as perceived by the OT Jews. I do not know what Church you went to, but they were so wrong! Jesus preached constantly about a loving God! I am sure Wade will say more on this, Love,>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
(20 Nov '11, 20:52)
Jaianniah
Yes I agree with Jai fully on this, you do not know the Christian God and it seems you never did really. A God that loves us so much he gave his own son Jesus to die for us to buy us back from Satan. God wants no one to go to hell. It is by their own choices, you make it sound like God pushes his children into the street to be ran down. No God says don't do that or you will be sorry just like the father that says don't run into the street. The child runs into the street and gets hit by a car, that was not because te father pushed him but because he chose to disobey and that's the consequences.
(20 Nov '11, 21:01)
Wade Casaldi
Hmm. Jesus absolutely did teach about a loving god, but Jesus was killed by the Church because of what he taught. Just pointing out ;) I'd very much so like to continue this discussion, and your opinions interest me greatly, but perhaps we should take it to another thread or the chatroom?
(20 Nov '11, 21:53)
Leo
For Leo: Leo, Jesus was not killed by the "Church". "The Church" did NOT EXIST at that time...Jesus was killed by frightened Jews and the Roman Government because He was perceived as a threat to peace. Actually, he ALLOWED it to happen, as was foretold by Scripture in the Old Testament, as a sacrifice to save humanity and to reconcile man once again with God. God tried and tried to get man to obey His laws, but Man did not; and God finally had to figure out a way to bring Peace and Salvation back into the World. So He decided to put Himself in Our place to save us.>>>>>>>>>>
(21 Nov '11, 05:49)
Jaianniah
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Inward Quest to me is just that: an exploration of the inner self- spiritual, psychological, social, mental, metaphysical- you name it, we got it. I suppose you freaked out when you saw my post about Hell! Well, in all the posts here on IQ, the tags of "Satan" and "Hell" have only been used a handful of times out of 3,000+ posts- that means to me that you have perhaps assumed that we chat about Satan all the time. We do not. I am a Christian Mystic, and have been very welcomed here on IQ. I do not usually post anything about Satan, but my recent experience just had to be shared (only my opinion, of course.) Think of Inward Quest as a Salad Bar: Take what you like, and leave the rest alone! Hope this helps you understand. Check out my questions; I have asked many, many questions on all sorts of topics...I may even hold the record, or close to it, for the MOST questions asked here (I am not sure). You will see that I have asked a variety of questions on a wide range of topics. Just click on my name to see all my stuff....stats and such. I am into science big-time, and am a Christian, studying for the Ministry, but also believe in Evolution and love to discuss anything factual. I guess I am a Liberal Christian, but I AM a Christian...sorry if that is offensive to you; I do not mean it to be. I hope this helps to introduce you a little to IQ, and to clear up your fears. Blessings of any Nature you prefer, Jaianniah (jye-ann-nye'-ah) I said I didn't believe in traditional religious teachings, never that I do not believe in heaven or hell. ;) My definitions however are DRAMATICALLY different than what you would expect, explained slightly in my response there. I think heaven and hell exist in the mind, and it is a choice to live in happiness, or turmoil. Your post actually didn't bother me in the slightest, and I think your use of the word hell was absolutely appropriate. There is no more fitting word to describe the agony and torture you described.
(20 Nov '11, 05:00)
Leo
And to emphasis a more important point: Stop apologizing or being concerned about offending me, it wont happen, and if it does it is my fault for taking something personally not yours. You have absolutely zero reason to apologize to me, so knock it off. ;)
(20 Nov '11, 05:00)
Leo
Yes, sir! LOL!>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
(20 Nov '11, 05:07)
Jaianniah
Thank you, Leo! I have not earned "Best Answer" in a long time. It means a lot. Blessings, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
(20 Nov '11, 05:10)
Jaianniah
Well I'm glad you appreciate it, you undoubtedly earned it. I hope to hear countless more like it.
(20 Nov '11, 05:46)
Leo
in deed jai you have ask alot of question(325)and answer(352). but i have answered more then you(624). i am not in contest with you. just have look at it.
(20 Nov '11, 06:04)
white tiger
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NO, i would say predominantly its MANIFESTATION driven. There are one or two religious zealots on this forum, there are many with a fixed point of view and many who have changed and developed there way of thinking. But i feel that most are looking to the world of the spirit,god or another dimension to fulfill some perceived want ,need or desire in their lives. And i dont think theres anything wrong with that. Personally im after manifestation leading to joy. Or maybe joy leading to manifestation. The rest of its meaningless to me. Im only after the feel good factor and its results. M |
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well leo inward quest is about spirituality and religion is also about spirituality. has long has everything is made in harmony i do not see any limit to what can be share on the site do you? but i can see your point of view about religion. preaching things from the bible and they do not do it them self and they take some verse to serve their perpace. and they judge other when jesus said to not judge or you will be judge with the same mesure. i know what you mean. why do you want to imposse a limit on what can be discuse or shared here? why do we need to limit are self? do we need to narrow are self to see only what we want to see ? are we so limited in are intelligence,love,compassion and patience? experience and enjoy. Quite the contrary, I do not want to limit discussion at all, I am merely asking about the common practice of members here. I am looking for a place I can share all of my thoughts openly and freely, and thus far I have not found a suitable venue. I've been here for a day and it seems to be very close to what I'm looking for, especially due to the understanding of spiritual energies and the like.
(20 Nov '11, 04:31)
Leo
Re: spirituality vs religion: I don't believe they are the same at all, in fact I think they are the farthest from one another possible. To me spirituality is ONLY what you feel yourself, what you know in your heart to be true no matter what the universe around you says. In my eyes religion on the other hand is what you are TOLD you should feel or believe, what you are ORDERED to do, not do, think, not think. I think religion is shackles that humans voluntarily place on themselves in some kind of an attempt to find atonement for sins they didn't commit to a hateful god that doesn't exist.
(20 Nov '11, 04:33)
Leo
to answer you:the bible is one thing writen by men over the years. it is the truth if one is righteous or as the spirit. if one judge other and say he is wise a scholar a philosopher he has the answer from the bible you see right there that this one is not speaking in truth because he is not following the word of god. he is just preaching foolishness of men and i am pleased to save those who believe.
(20 Nov '11, 05:12)
white tiger
1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? this verse should answer your question. and for me anny one that judge and commit sin did not understand the message of jesus. and usely those kind of people are what this verse refer to.Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men." 1 Corinthians 1:18-25
(20 Nov '11, 05:15)
white tiger
as for is it biblical yes it is because the bible was write by men on things they did not understand. how can someone carnal can understand those things? The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
(20 Nov '11, 05:20)
white tiger
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength. Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly--mere infants in Christ.
(20 Nov '11, 05:21)
white tiger
it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.
(20 Nov '11, 05:21)
white tiger
http://www.inwardquest.com/questions/17381/neville-goddard-does-consciousness-imagination-create-reality-is-this-biblical
(20 Nov '11, 05:24)
white tiger
well leo i think you are at the right place. and yes what you say is true also because some do not have the spirit. and need to believe to be saved. in in the absolute truth there exist lots of truth. it is like a big puzzle where everything exist all the truth and all what is not true is also know for what it is. experience and enjoy.
(20 Nov '11, 05:29)
white tiger
@wt are you really only here to convert people to your beliefs and save them from what - eternal hell? :)
(20 Nov '11, 05:40)
Eddie
I strongly appreciate that you acknowledge that the bible was written by men, NOT god, and has been translated and rewritten countless times. In my opinion religion is the biggest game of 'telephone' in the history. (A childhood game where you sit in a circle, one person whispers a sentence to the person next to them, and it continues back around until it reaches its source again. The source says aloud what they were told, then tells everyone the original sentence.) I believe the original teachings of the saints, prophets, and even Jesus were all pure until being corrupted by the church.
(20 Nov '11, 05:42)
Leo
Eddie i am here to share with you. i am not converting anny body. i am telling the truth that you like it or not. and leo was talking about religion vs spirituality. all what is writen is from the bible. but that is not what religion will tell you. example: if they judge and damn you are they doing what jesus and the prophet said about the law?
(20 Nov '11, 05:47)
white tiger
religious people should be careful because they could do that in front of god jesus angels etc. and not know it.
(20 Nov '11, 05:49)
white tiger
and eddy i told you before i am not in belief i am in faith. i am who i am i am that i am.
(20 Nov '11, 05:52)
white tiger
I appreciate your sharing white tiger. I ask questions seeking responses, otherwise I'd just be talking to the wind. ;)
(20 Nov '11, 06:10)
Leo
Again, I urge you guys to move this to the chat room. Love and Kisses,>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
(20 Nov '11, 06:12)
Jaianniah
well leo sometime a question can be better then a answer to make one think and find the answer.where does the wind come from and where is it going?
(20 Nov '11, 06:25)
white tiger
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It may be worthwhile leaving your question open for at least 24 hours, probably longer. IQ is an International community, so the time zones are different for many people. And many people will not answer a question once best answer has been given. As a result you've chosen the best of 3 answers from 3 people, who agree in many areas, but you may have got 10 answers otherwise. Just a heads up :)
Hmm. I didn't realize that accepting an answer prevented more from being made. I greatly appreciate the warning. ^_^ I was working under the assumption that it worked like votes, and could be changed whenever. Since that is my natural behavior is to decide an answer to my questions that suits me best according to the knowledge and experience I have at the time, and reserve my right to change my answer as new information and points of view are gathered. I don't believe we should ever lock ourselves into any opinion, but instead we should always be changing our opinions to what is most logical.
I like your point of view :) Here's the thing tho - any best answer to any question is only the best answer according to and from the perspective of the person asking. I've noticed that following the acceptance of an answer, there is very little activity on it afterwards.
I realize now that mousing over the 'best answer' option prompts me with the ability to make it go away, as does every vote button. It is amazing how the most obvious things can slip past us.
I definitely like your advice, and will definitely take it to heart from now on. Besides, I'll come to the same conclusion anyway and if I don't then it wasn't the correct conclusion to begin with.
I'm still learning. ^_^ If at any point in time you see an opportunity to share wisdom with me I would greatly appreciate you continuing to do so. Thanks again. =)