According to the idea of Karma, your soul comes back to life as a reward or punishment of your previous life. So, if you have behaved bad in this life you will come back as a lower being or you will live a life of illnes or misfortune.
Now, I have being reading The Law of Attraction by Esther and Jerry Hicks, and Abraham doesn't even hint at that, as far as I understand it.
He says that our Soul wishes to come back to live a new and different experience from the previous ones, and so improving itself each time. He never mentions punishment or reward... Am I mistaken in my interpretation? Reincarnation, is or isn't Karmic?
I'd like to hear your opinion on the subject...
asked 25 Jun '10, 13:52
I'm sure you will have noticed an underlying theme in all of my postings to this group over the past several months.
That theme is that we live in an ordered, consistent and understandable Universe.
And I think it will serve you well if you remember that theme whenever you are confronted with those who spread Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.
I was beaten over the head for years with this Karma idea of punishment and reward and, for a while, I believed what I was told.
I was told that if I ever did something wrong, I would pay for it later at some unknown time in some unknown way. Strangely enough, no-one ever defined exactly what wrong meant but, funnily enough, wrong always seemed to be aligned with the arbitrary moral values of the person talking to me.
So I was confronted with this idea that kept me constantly worried and fearful that I would do something wrong and be punished. And it made me miserable and depressed.
But wait a minute...if I was now miserable and depressed, I thought to myself at that time, this feels like punishment doesn't it?
And so, I reasoned, that can only mean that I did something wrong previously in a past life - because I'm pretty sure that I haven't been that bad in this one. I figured I must have been a pretty awful person to be suffering so much.
So the result is that I suffered even more because now, not only was I being punished, I was also a bad person in a previous life.
For me, this mental state went on for years as I blindly accepted the wisdom of people regarding Karma, even though none of them could answer my questions about exactly how Karma worked or what I could do to get rid of it. (It's like when some extremely religious people tell you that you must not question what they say - you must simply accept it.)
And strangely enough, I noticed no-one else around me living particularly happy lives either, even though they were apparently spiritual people. In fact, most of them seemed miserable and unhappy too...obviously, they must be being punished too for being bad people in previous lives. There seemed to be a lot of currently-good, but previously bad, people around within the spiritual circles I moved in.
Then one day I had an encounter with a tall being of white light which I have described previously on this website.
From that day, everything changed for me. Everything.
I started to question things that I had been told I should not question. I started to look at things I was told I should not look at. I started to talk to people who I was told I should not talk to.
My search was relentless. That being of light had made me feel empowered for the first time in my life for many, many years.
And, as that feeling of relentless empowerment began to dominate my consciousness, my world started to change. Answers to things I had always wanted to know started to flood in, even to things which I had been told there were no answers for.
I'm sure you will have realized by now from what I've written that it was that feeling of depression that had prevented me from finding those answers before because the Law of Attraction was only bringing me more circumstances to match that feeling.
And once I felt empowered, I started to attract empowering people, situations and knowledge. I even stumbled across Abraham...since the knowledge that was previously there under my nose was now a vibrational match to how I felt and it entered my reality.
Now I make it a point in my life to empower people whenever they are attracted into my reality. I've learned myself that just giving people that little bit of hope that they are not trapped in their life circumstances - that they are not victims - is really all that it takes to start them on a life-changing process. I'm just passing on what that being of light did for me.
So now, let's come back to Karma and all the punishment/reward stuff...
You might be wondering why this answer is so questioning and just based so much on my personal experience and thoughts. Why can I not precisely come up with a simple set of statements that disprove that Karma exists?
Simple reason - how can you disprove the existence of something when no-one shows you how to find it?...I don't have anything concrete to disprove because no-one will come up with the exact explanation of how Karma works that can be disproven.
So, until the day that happens, and someone who puts forward this punishment/reward Karma idea actually reveals its apparent method of operation, all that I can do is resort to anecdotal evidence.
It's a bit like someone telling you that the sun may not rise up tomorrow into the sky, but they won't tell you the exact rules that will govern when it will come up and when it doesn't.
So when the sun does rise and you tell them they got it wrong, they simply tell you that the rules for it not to rise were not satisfied so it did rise that day. But tomorrow, it may not rise :)
You can't win when people draw you into playing that game, and that's probably why this nonsense Karma concept manages to perpetuate.
So there you have it. I can't disprove Karma to you but I can suggest some thoughts (as hopefully I have done) that may cause you to question what you are told about it now and in the future.
And, finally, since you mentioned Abraham, I would like to share with you what Abraham think of Karma...and I think they sum it up very well. :)
Remember when you were a child and You got so caught up in playing a game with your friends that you just wouldn't come home? Your mother would urge you "Bridget, it's time for supper" and you would just yell "5 more minutes, Mom." and come back to playing the game..
That's how I view Karma; you get so caught up in playing the game that you just won't let it go. You won't to get better each time you play but you are so anxious to come back that more often than not you don't take the time to reflect on what went wrong in that lifetime and how to improve it.
As I read a lot of books by Dolores Cannon, which is a past life regressionist, she was able to tap into the knowledge of the Spirit world directly to the Source, from the Spirits that were occupying it and what she found out was something like this - You always have a choice to come back and you always have assistance on the other side. Assistance is in the form of Masters ans Teachers who show you what you did and what lessons you learned and which you didn't. Than the Masters SUGGEST to you what scenario or life would be good to live next to learn the lessons you didn't in the previous lifetime.
So if you were someone who abused power of any kind you might choose a lifetime of someone who is powerless. for example someone in a wheelchair who is dependent on others and stuff like that. It doesn't mean that if you killed someone you HAVE TO get killed also, but maybe help people who have lost someone close and stuff like that. So it isn't LITERAL as most of us might think.
So what happened on this Earth? Well, we got so caught up in playing the game that some of us were so anxious that they didn't listen to the Masters and Teachers. They went to the other side and instead waiting to learn they said "Ok, ok, I've get it. Let me back in. I want to try again." And puff, you're here, because you always CHOOSE your experience and all the things others do are just suggestions and NOT orders you have to follow.
So in this day and age that we are living right now it is much easier not to get caught up in the Karma of past lifetimes. As more and more people start to awaken you can integrate more and more of the lessons that you failed to learn before, and Presto! Suddenly you've learned lessons that took you several lifetimes in just few months. And the process will keep on speeding up as we go along.
It does that because every person that awakens doesn't add up the positive energy for change, but it multiplies it. So 2 people working together on positive changes can overpower 4 negative people, 3 positives overpower 3^2=9 negatives, 4 positives overpower 4^2=16 negatives and so on, so there really doesn't have to be so many positive people to tip the scales if you say for the "good side of the Force".
And Karma, well, it's self-imposed. If you believe that previous lifetimes can hold some power over you, then well, they will. But when you don't buy into that and say "Well, the lifetime that I'm living now it's the most important one for me and let me focus on this one" than that's the effect you will get out of it.
You can CHOOSE it, really. Just say "Let others worry about that Karma stuff and I will enjoy my life as it is now." It doesn't mean that you won't learn the lessons that you needed to learn previously, but it will be that much easier and effortless, because you won't be digging through hundreds of previous lifetimes but just focus on this lifetime and responses that come up to day-to-day affairs. Once you do that you will "get off" that wheel of Karma that many people have been on for so long and just enjoy life for what it is .. a beautiful and exciting ride, where all that matters is the Now.
answered 25 Jun '10, 18:10
karma and all that is written about it is a law of nature also known as cause and effect. reincarnation and all that is written about it is a cyclic journey into manifestation of a form of life (spark of energy) evolving towards perfection.
answered 26 Jun '10, 13:53
I disagree with wildlife, karma according to the hindu and buddhist faith is a punishment for being too good or too bad, which results in your reincarnation on this world and the vessel you are put into is determined by your karma. in order to break the cycle you must reach nirvana as buddha did by being neutral and giving up all wants and desires. This will bring you into oneness with the universe which is both positive and negative and yet neither.
People can be decieved by demons and evil beings from attaining nirvana as Mara tried to do with Siddhartha, but Siddhartha was able to stay the course and not be distracted from attaining nirvana.
Just as Satan tried to turn Jesus against GOD when he was fasting in the desert. They want you to fail and not reach your full potential. That is why they offer so many different views and call them all the truth to confuse and turn you from the right path. You must open your mind to the truth by meditating and becoming an empty shell for GOD/UNIVERSE to fill with a wonderful gift that no one else can give you. That is why monks will seal themselves into caves for years to get rid of distractions. Unfortunatly they take the distractions in with them and that is what they must overcome. You do not need to be sealed into a cave, you just need to learn to empty your mind of all thought and feelings and it will come. I have been there and it is impossible to describe. Everyone has the ability to reach it but you must let go and open up your mind. Don't train your mind to believe it can do anything as this is the complete opposite and will keep you from attaining oneness. Don't let them win, the stakes are too high.
Anyone that tells you to live for the moment and forget the rest is not only deceiving you but they are deceiving themselves as well. You may ask why Mara and the rest would want to stop you from gaining nirvana, it is because they can't and they know it and they don't want you to gain it either because they are the embodiment of all that is wrong with the world. If they can deceive you and keep you from the truth then you will be destroyed with them.
The american indians tell a tale of the world being destroyed and reborn. It has happened 4 times and the 5th is upon us soon. How many times has a jealous lover killed the one that spurned their love, so that person would not be happy with another. It is the same principal that the evil ones are doing, they don't want you to be happy because they know they will not be allowed to survive the destruction. So they are trying to take as many with them as they can.
This is the central theme in many religions, so just ask yourself, Why is that? It is because GOD/UNIVERSE is trying to get the message out to people through prophets and saints. However the message is getting distorted by those who want you to fail. Make up your own mind and don't let them persuade you differently.
answered 25 Jun '10, 19:13
And I agree with both of you. The process that wildlife has described is correct but karma does play a role. You get to choose but you have that karmic baggage over you and you are forced to take it into consideration.
answered 25 Jun '10, 20:14
it does not matter of religion
what you intellect starts
it gathers with like kind
answered 15 Jun '12, 21:41
According to the Law of Attraction, we are attracted to and attract to us things and people and events and circumstances that match our vibration. So whatever vibration we put out, is what we get back. If we put out negative vibrations, we get matching negative experiences. This is not punishment, but has been misunderstood as punishment and has been called karma, the wrath of God, etc... Like if you put your hand on a hot stove and get burned, you are not being punished by anybody, that is just the logical consequence of touching a hot stove. If a person jumps off a bridge, gravity takes them down, not punishment. So logically, when we get what we put out vibrationally, it is not punishment, just the LOA.
When we are born, we are attracted to our family by our vibrations and our family's vibration. That is our starting point. We have a choice to choose thoughts and beliefs that will raise our vibration, keep it the same or lower it. The goal is to raise our vibration. When we leave these physical bodies, our soul is attracted to it's next destination by our vibration. This can be seen as going to heaven or hell, depending on our vibration. Maybe we come back as an animal or plant or maybe another human with another opportunity to raise or lower our vibration. Love raises our vibration and fear lowers it.
So reincarnation isn't Karmic in the sense that people have made it out to be as reward and punishment, but it is simply the LOA at work.
answered 03 Sep '12, 14:06
I am a hindu and know the laws of karma intimately. There is 'Paap' and 'Punya' -- Paap is evil deeds and Punya are pious deeds. According to karma we are supposed to get the fruits of our actions right here on this earth. So if you do Paap you'll get punishment and if you do Punya you will get rewards. If you do either of it you're still entangled in trapped in Maya(illusion) -- The only way to attain nirvana is to leave Maya behind and seek the ultimate being and him alone and not any demigods this will free you from the cycle of millions of births and deaths.
I personally think we're just are just animals that have gotten really smart and after that we're just being plain elitist about the whole thing. We're doing to nature what Racists do to the rest of humanity, divide things and have an us vs them mentality. When the Britishers had their empire they had a theory of 'White Mans Burden' - Now the Americans have a similar theory. We as a species have a similar mindset as well -- save the earth. Its ridiculous, I am betting the earth will still out-survive the extinction of the human species. So, we're just kidding ourselves.
I also think there is no proof of either Karma or Life after birth.
While karma sounds good -- I still think there is nothing know as the soul you and me are just beings created by the genes for its own propagation - 2 core aims in life that are biologically imprinted on every being are :
Your body and mind are geared for these 2 concepts. So even the religious part of your brain exists because it was evolutionarily advantageous. I think it has served us well. You'll see through the times of history - god's changed, prayers changed, theories changed, but, one constant was the existence of religion.
Understand we(humans) have been here for quite a few thousand years not because of some 2000-4000 year old god - but because our early ancestors took the right path in the survival game. Because we conquered nature and triumphed over the other animals. Point is - When you're over, your game's going to be over. Live while you can.
Second, about karma - I seriously don't think there is any karma. There is just the environment(everything outside you) and how you interact with it. There is no reward or punishment. There are just choices and those choices have consequences -- some you can predict - others you can't. So, seek to understand the world around you. Don't take the most basic concepts you learn about at their face value. question everything.
This is a great question. I respect all the replies given and wish to share my own perspective to this question.
As eternal sovereign beings in this Universal construct, we are organically intented to incarnate not reincarnate. The word reincarnation denotes a recyling process of incarnation, and this recycling process most certainly denotes the false-light construct we call karma. Those who believe in karma or who are blissfully unaware of it, will, after leaving one's physical vehicle, recycle back into the reincarnational Matrix programme to potentially acheive balance in their belief system of positive and negative as pertains to their incarnational existences.
The problem with this system is that one will continually attempt -- via (re)incarnation -- to achieve a positive balance or negative balance in one's next linear incarnation in relation to one's prior linear incarnation, continuing the incarnational recycling programme, and completely missing the point of the Divine Neutral: that both positive and negative energies exist concurrently; that contrast is awareness; and that integration and inclusion of these contrasting polarities is what expands us as eternal sovereign beings on the verge of becoming Universal Creators. Many of us have already achieved what we needed to achieve long ago (in linear terms), but remain stuck in this process. And there are two reasons for this.
Spiritually, we made a contract (in linear terms) long, long ago with a Soul Group Consciousness that would serve as a catalyst to provide a contrast to our natural state of being, which is Love and Light and Connection to All There Is. This was done so that we would grow in awareness of what we are via the limiting illusion of what we are not, provided by the catalyst.
The further problem is that this Soul Group Consciousness that was to provide a catalyst for our growth got so caught up and enjoyed its various roles of domination and control over us, that it eventually breached the original contract and continued the role of domination and control without our consent. As we agreed to be initially 'vulnerable' and exposed to 'limitations', we, in turn, forgot who we were, what are powers are, and what the initial contract was. This Soul Group Consciousness took advantage of the 'situation', and continues to do so. And this applies to when our consciousness leaves our Earthly vehicle at 'death'.
The veil is NOT lifted after our physical 'death'. It is and has for a long time been fully in place, but on another level of manipulation. The 'Heaven' scenario is an artificial light construct perpetrated by those entities who wish us to continue to believe in the Wheel of Karma, so that we will continually reincarnate over and over into the same paradigm of soul fractal entrapment.
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