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This might apply to any religious or philosophical text I suppose. But isn't The Bible really just a bunch of crusty old fellas broadcasting (and often pontificating about) their world view, then trying to lend weight to their ideas by attributing them as being derived from some deity or other ...? Were the authors of ancient texts really just cantankerous old bloggers, for practical purposes mostly indistinguishable from people you might happen upon today, busy advocating some world view or another via their blogs and websites ...?
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Does the Bible have a particular viewpoint? Of course. Doesn't every book? People who want to be "their own God" don't have much use for a book like the Bible. People who consider the Bible irrelevant because it doesn't deal with "modern issues" don't have much use for the Bible either. But if you are trying to read the Bible because you want to understand your life from the perspective of someone living a lifestyle in the middle ages, with wagons and hand tools and no central heating, I think you're missing the point. The problems that humans have today are fundamentally no different than those of people living a thousand years ago. Where do I live? Who do I want to be with? How can I feel safe? What do I want to do with my life? How do I find peace and happiness? How do I have a productive relationship with my friends and neighbors? How do I grow? These are the questions people have been asking themselves for as long as there have been people. The answers to these questions (and more) can be found in the Bible, if you read it as it was written, with divine inspiration. Note that you can do this with any book, not just the Bible. If you hold in the back of your mind the problem for which you seek an answer, with an attitude of asking, you can open any random book, newspaper or blog entry, and chances are the answer you seek is there. In a sentence or a phrase, or perhaps merely a word. But I would say that the Bible has a much higher concentration of wisdom than most books, simply because that is its purpose, to impart wisdom and guidance. I know people who have read the Bible all their lives, and to this day they it still teaches them something new. They read a passage years ago that gave them a profound insight, and then came back to that passage years later to find out that the passage is saying something deeper to them now. Thank Q! for that response Vesuvius, that must've taken bloomin' ages to write, so thanks for taking the time too! I guess I would be one of those you describe in your second paragraph, one who doesn't "have much use for The Bible" ... for I find I have already successfully answered all the questions that you posed in the fourth / fifth paragraphs as to why people refer to it. So I suppose it would make sense that I wouldn't have much use for it really!
(13 Aug '10, 01:35)
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Still, your first sentence "The Bible was written with Divine Inspiration" is a pretty bald assertion isn't it, and when stated in that way, it comes across as though you consider it an established and irrefutable fact. And interestingly, it exactly correlates with my view that Biblical authors "lend weight to their ideas by attributing them as being derived from some deity or other". But the validity of that claim is the sticking point for me, thus my speculation that The Bible might be nothing more than the equivalent of a set of often outdated Olde Worlde blogs!
(13 Aug '10, 01:36)
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Anyway, if you're so inclined I'd be very interested to hear how you arrived at such a firm opinion, so that I can evaluate the evidence for myself. Thank Q!
(13 Aug '10, 01:36)
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Perhaps you misunderstood me. The Bible was written with Divine Inspiration, but so is every other book, song or work of art that inspires.
(13 Aug '10, 04:41)
Vesuvius
Ah OK, fair enough! Not too sure about that notion though ... after all, The Bible contains propositions that are often appalling to the modern mind, but were it indeed "written with Divine Inspiration" then surely we'd have to accept the whole caboodle, like it or lump it ...? But personally, I think a lot of it is just a reflection of the cultural norms prevalent at the time it was written (and still extant in parts of the Middle East), and as such was not Divinely inspired at all - those guys were just deploying their deity to promote / blog their own ideologies, as humans are prone to do!
(13 Aug '10, 07:02)
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So it seems to me that such 'inspirational' works are more a product of the aspirational human mind than anything else. And given that one man's aspirations can indeed end up inspiring others, the result we end up with is 'inspired' Crusades, The Inquisition, and the Islamic suicide bombers of today. Which perhaps only goes to show that going around recklessly inspiring people, and then asserting that it's 'Divine', is what daleks would call 'a bad idea' ;) OK then, All The Best!
(13 Aug '10, 07:03)
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Well, I assumed you wanted an answer to you question. Didn't realize you just wanted to engage in a religious debate. Have you actually tried reading the Bible? I suggest starting with Matthew and Proverbs. You might actually see something in there you like.
(13 Aug '10, 15:13)
Vesuvius
Your answer is not substantiated in any way, it is simply an assertion. So yes, you provided an answer, but is it the correct answer ...? I find discussion to be an effective mechanism for discerning good answers from not-so-good answers. I wouldn't be inclined to endorse your answer based on what you've said so far, sorry! All The Best!
(13 Aug '10, 15:48)
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Your question (and your subsequent responses) seems more like a rant than a genuine request for knowledge. If you wanted proof, you should have asked for it in your question. You won't find such proof in the absence of faith.
(13 Aug '10, 17:03)
Vesuvius
Oh. OK then, well let's try again :) The essence of your answer is that "The Bible was written with Divine Inspiration". So you're saying it's not just a bunch of guys blogging about "life, the universe, and everything" from the perspective of living in the Middle East a few thousand years ago (like I thought). Rather, you seem to be saying it's a work of the Creator, equivalent to God sitting down at a desk and writing it out firsthand. Is that a fair representation, or have I misunderstood you ...?
(14 Aug '10, 03:14)
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I am saying that it's a bunch of guys blogging about "life, the universe, and everything" from the perspective of living in the Middle east, and that it doesn't matter. You got so fixated on the whole "Divine Intervention" thing that you didn't read the rest of my answer. I hear so many people say that, "Well it's just a moldy old book, and it's out of touch with my modern sensibilities." That is just so wrong-headed. It's like saying "I know God because I own an IPod, you crusty old farts." It just doesn't work.
(14 Aug '10, 04:42)
Vesuvius
True wisdom is timeless. It doesn't go out of date just because it's not the "flavor of the week."
(14 Aug '10, 04:43)
Vesuvius
Ah, now I see what you're saying. Based on your opening remark, your answer to my original question "Isn’t The Bible really just an Olde Worlde version of blogging?" would appear to be a straightforward "Yes". Your first comment indicates you believe that The Bible is Divinely Inspired because you hold all inspiration as being of Divine origin, but that's a separate issue really isn't it. Similarly, whether The Bible is entirely the product of Divine Inspiration is another question altogether! So OK, good chat - thanks for clearing that up! All The Best!
(14 Aug '10, 06:44)
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I deleted the first paragraph. That should tone down the whole "Divine Inspiration" thing a bit.
(14 Aug '10, 17:56)
Vesuvius
@Yeesuvius. I agree with you. I don't pretend to say an universal truth, but only my belief and opinion that "Bible was written with Divine inspiration" and it contains more wisdom. The reader can find this wisdom ONLY IF HE IS SEARCHING IT HONESTLY. And often the wisdom is beyond the words. If we need strong arguments for endorse an idea, we also need strong arguments for deny this idea, especialy when it is about something which cannot be put on the desk for dissection!
(14 Aug '10, 19:27)
Gleam
I'm just going to go along in my life randomly picking up books and flop open a page and read it. See where it takes me in my spiritual quest.
(15 Aug '10, 04:19)
RPuls
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Perhaps some of it is but there is also another part - a part that is Gold. It is unfortunate there are things in the Bible that are not very "ideal", however, if you can let it go there is much that would benefit man to follow. Yes I'd agree with what you say - bits of it are OK, other bits nowadays seem like a downright affront to modern sensibilities! So for me, The Bible doesn't come off especially well when compared to other philosophical anthologies.
(13 Aug '10, 01:37)
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@one billion daleks: I hear you. I like to go straight to the source and read what Jesus said.
(13 Aug '10, 02:22)
Back2Basics
Yes :), though I reckon it's a darned pity that Jesus didn't sit down and write his Gospel out himself instead of leaving it to all his mates to have a crack at it instead! ;)
(13 Aug '10, 02:31)
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Hello… The Bible is not an “Olde Worlde version of blogging”. A blog is “typically an individual offering their perspectives on things”. In contrast, the complete volume of the Bible (66 books: Genesis to Revelation) was written by over [40] individuals, in a time-span of approximately 2000 years, through the UNIFORM guidance and inspiration of GOD. Thus, the Bible stands apart from all other literature, blogs, or websites because it claims to be THE BOOK which contains the historical Words of GOD. The Bible is ONE BOOK but has [2] Testaments: The Old Testament and the New Testament. The existence of these [2] Testaments has nothing to do with “cultural shifts” or “shifts in religious perceptions”. The difference in the Biblical Testaments has to do with the change of the BLOOD sacrifice for the forgiveness of SINS. The Old Testament was dedicated by Moses with the blood of ANIMALS under the Law. The New Testament was dedicated by Jesus Christ (GOD in the Flesh) with His OWN blood under Grace. The Bible does NOT belong to man. The Bible belongs to GOD, and it is HIS completed record from Genesis to Revelation through the hand of man. The work of GOD was fourfold - Revelation, Inspiration, Illumination, and Preservation: (1) Revelation is the FACT of a divine communication. (2) Inspiration is the MEANS by which the divine communication is brought to the written record. (3) Illumination is the UNDERSTANDING of the divine communication. (4) Preservation is the CONSISTENCY of the divine communication through multiple languages. There are no degrees of Biblical inspiration. The whole Bible is equally inspired, equally authoritative, and equally true. GOD guided the expression of the Biblical writers’ thoughts without disturbing the free exercise of the Biblical writers’ personalities. Therefore, the written work is as authoritative as if it were mechanically dictated, but as writer-specific as if it were humanly created. This process was DYNAMIC, and the end result is a verbal (the words), plenary (extending to all parts equally), inerrant (without error), and authoritative collection of GOD’s Words. The Bible makes an explicit claim for itself in the matter of inspiration for both the Old and New Testaments. The dynamic process of divine inspiration includes a diversity of expression, the instrumentality of human personalities, the use of source documents, the use of nonscientific language, and an array of literary devices. Although the Bible guarantees that it contains a TRUE record, it does NOT necessarily claim that everything contained in the record is TRUE. A distinction must clearly be made between what the Bible TEACHES and what the Bible RECORDS. Everything that the Bible TEACHES is TRUE and ERRORLESS. However, the Bible also contains a TRUE record of sinful man’s gross errors, flagrant lies, and despicable thoughts and actions throughout history. Failure to notice this distinction will always result in improper Biblical understanding and doctrinal ERROR. Why did GOD need to guide and inspire men to write His Words? Why did Jesus Christ not “sit down and write his Gospel out himself instead of leaving it to all his mates to have a crack at it instead”? The Bible answers this question for us. Jesus Christ would NEVER have wasted His time writing about Himself because He understood and declared the following: “If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.” [John 5:31] The reason Jesus Christ has spiritual authority and credibility until today is because His Words and actions were recorded by multiple WITNESSES who were guided and inspired by GOD. Because of this, Jesus Christ does not commend Himself. He is commended of GOD and the writings of the witnesses. This level of commendation cannot be claimed by any other person in the history of the world. Today, blogs and web-sites do exactly what Jesus Christ avoided: They bear witness of themselves and their agendas. Please note that I did not write the Bible. I am just sharing what the Bible claims in relation to its contents: The Bible claims that it is THE BOOK which contains all the historical Words of GOD. If a person does not believe in the GOD of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, that is their business. If a person believes that the Biblical writers were “crusty”, that is their business. If a person believes that the Biblical writers were “cantankerous”, that is their business. If a person believes that the Biblical writers wrote and incorrectly attributed the words to “some deity or other”, that is their business. If a person believes that the Biblical writers were “busy advocating” some personal “world view”, that is their business. If a person believes that the Biblical claim in relation to its contents is a LIE, that is their business. In conclusion, modern-day blogs and web-sites are of the WORLD. In contrast, the Bible is of GOD with modern-day relevance to both MEN and WOMEN. Thanks for reading. Concerned Citizen Well, it's a pity you choose to capitalise so many words in your posts Concerned Citizen, as it makes you sound like you're RAMMING your views DOWN MY THROAT, and makes you come across as a rather BELLIGERENT and AGGRESSIVE person! And for me, the tone detracts from what you're saying. After all, if someone is shouting at you, that's what you'll notice, more than what they're saying.
(17 Aug '10, 01:49)
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So anyway, what I've done is copy and paste your post to Notepad and removed all the capital letters, and now instead of coming across like some kind of religious maniac foaming at the mouth, you seem like a more thoughtful person with some interesting opinions! But seeing as you cover a lot of ground I think I'll respond to the points you raise progressively, so for now - Thank Q! for your thoughts on the topic!
(17 Aug '10, 01:49)
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Para 1: I didn't ask if The Bible was an individual blog, I asked if it's a form of blogging. So the fact that it's a set of books seems diversionary really, that just suggests it could be an anthology of 66 individual blogs written by 40 different authors. Then you state that the authors were guided and inspired by God, and that The Bible claims itself to be as such ... I'm interested to find out if you've verified this in some way, or whether you are taking the author's word for it.
(17 Aug '10, 02:18)
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OBD: I am not "RAMMING", "shouting", "BELLIGERENT", or "AGGRESSIVE". The reason I capitalize or bold words is because people tend to remember words that are EMPHASIZED. My answer is NOT a personal attack. I have been writing this way since my first post here. I answer questions which, like this one, are related to GOD, Jesus, or Bible. This way, I try to respect the scope and intent of each question. If my style offends you, just let me know and I will refrain from answering your subsequent questions. Believe me, I do NOT "foam at the mouth", NOR am I a "religious maniac". 'Til next time...
(17 Aug '10, 02:38)
Concerned Citizen
No, I didn't think you were a religious maniac really, it's just that capitals can tend to come across as looking somewhat maniacal! Capitals are a bloomin' liability y'know, that's what capitals are! :) Hey, guess what ...? I discovered that if you put one asterisk at each end of a word or phrase then it is italicised, like this, which looks quite a bit better for emphasis I reckon! OK, All The Best!
(17 Aug '10, 02:55)
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No it doesnt claim to be ALL the words of God Concerned Citizen.Jesus never sited anything in the new testemant and none of the new testement authors claimed all there words were from God.Paul openly stood against the church in Rome and withstood them to their face.All of the writers of even the new testemant had disagreements.Anyway who was it that put the 66 books together anyway? Any biblical historians out there?
(06 Sep '10, 14:46)
Monty Riviera
COOK: You are WRONG! Salvation is of the JEWS, and unto them were committed the ORACLES of GOD [John 4:22; Romans 3:4]. The Bible is a JEWISH book, and no other book dares to claim, "Thus, saith the Lord...". The Apostles all claimed that their doctrine was not the word of men, but the word of GOD [I Thessalonians 2:13]. Paul withstood Peter "to the face" in Antioch [Galatians 2:11]. Of what "church in Rome" do you speak? There are many books which explain the historical determination of Biblical canonization. Are you suggesting that GOD cannot inspire and preserve His Words in a Book?
(06 Sep '10, 21:15)
Concerned Citizen
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the bible is the story of mankind, the original owners manual for earth's model of the 'human', if thats a blog, then its a blog. An Owners Manual is an instructional book supplied by a manufacturer for their products, whereas a blog is typically an individual offering their perspectives on things. Mind you, The Bible might've once functioned as an end-user-written 'Owners Manual' for early-model human males I suppose, but not so well for later models, or females! That's because Owners Manuals are usually updated on a regular basis, otherwise they tend to get out-of-date and become less reliable as sources of accurate information. So I wouldn't think of an Owners Manual as a blog Fred, but Thank Q! for the analogy!
(16 Aug '10, 01:08)
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well then i'd say it is not a blog. but try this, the owners manual is not out of date; intellect as well as emotion need a synthesis, either alone is an abberation of the mode. i also believe there has been a problem with translating the original bible into english(?)
(16 Aug '10, 21:24)
fred
I must admit Fred I have no idea whether the translation is reliable or not, so you could well be right on that point! All The Best!
(17 Aug '10, 01:57)
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You have a valid point Account Closed.Its a group of writings that were written by a large number of people and some books have no ACTUALLY KNOWN author. The books are in the wrong chronological order( oldest one is Job apparently ) and they were put together by a man whose main concern was the building up and maintaining of his own views and aspirations. There were books specifically kept out of the bible and for all we know inspired books destroyed for ever. However saying all that i would still maimtain the book to contain many inspired words from many inspired people.The claim that it is ALL inspired by God is i think a little onerous.Also to claim it as the ONLY word of God is likewise a little short sighted. Hpwever there are still many souls who think that there doing the Almighty a great favour in proclaiming that the Constantine inspired bringing together of these various books is His will.They also appear to limit the Almighty to what He has allready said and preclude poor old God from saying anything else by anyone else. Im sure God would be still willing and working out His plan even if good old Constantine had left out a few good books or indeed popped in a few bad ones. Graham COOK: Since when is the spirituality of a "book" determined by content chronology? Examine the Bible in more detail and you will find that its content is in perfect order. Why is "Job" before "Psalms"? Because "Job" is a picture of suffering Israel in the Tribulation, and "Psalms" is a picture of triumphant Israel in the Millenium. The Bible was NOT brought together by ONE man, and Constantine added NOTHING to the preservation of GOD's Words. You are confusing the Biblical Line of manuscripts which ends with the Authorized King James 1611 Bible with the Corrupt Line from Alexandria, Egypt.
(06 Sep '10, 23:16)
Concerned Citizen
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Are you referring to the old or new testament?
Good point Eddie! Well, the Old Testament seems a lot 'crustier' than the New Testament to me. And even though the New Testament has it's fair share of crustiness, there nevertheless seems to be a shift of emphasis going on there. Perhaps that reflects a cultural shift, from once being a bunch of wandering desert nomads, to the far more settled agrarian way of life of their descendents ...? I imagine such changes would probably trigger shifts in religious perceptions too ...?