for me being zen mean to not blind your self to the truth! it stop you from believing and giving power to things! and just accept the truth in things and find and understand the meaning in things! what do you think about this? If you don’t find a teacher soon, you’ll live this life in vain. It’s true, you have the buddha-nature. But the help of a teacher you’ll never know it. Only one person in a million becomes enlightened without a teacher’s help. If, though, by the conjunction of conditions, someone understands what the Buddha meant, that person doesn’t need a teacher. Such a person has a natural awareness superior to anything taught. But unless you’re so blessed, study hard, and by means of instruction you’ll understand.

asked 27 Apr '11, 15:45

white%20tiger's gravatar image

white tiger

edited 08 May '11, 17:27

When you go into it, you realize that physicality only exists as long as a conscious observer is present. Thus if there’s no conscious observer present, the tree in the forest doesn’t fall nor make any sound because neither the tree nor the forest exists :)


answered 29 Apr '11, 03:10

Eddie's gravatar image


yes if there is no one there no one can know! but it still exist! because when you return to the forest it is still there!

(04 May '11, 15:14) white tiger

It's wise not to become fixated within a single view point. Can you allow for the possibility that everything is illusion? Then that includes perception and the distinction between consciousness and physical matter. And allowing for the possibility that life is a dream of consciousness, the question arises: does the dream of the tree falling in the forest continue without conscious awareness of the event?

(05 May '11, 02:49) Eddie

well eddie not everything is illusion! as for perception what kind of perception you talking about? what every one see with the eyes! or what some see that other don't see? the tree in the forest was there and will still be there! eddie what if i told you that some stuff will happen and it all ready exist right now but the person will see it happen when the time comes! it might take a fee day a fee week a fee month a fee year! so the dream that is illusion to you is actually pretty real!

(12 May '11, 07:53) white tiger

I do not know what another sees, I only know what I see. What I do not perceive is a non-reality to me. Everything That Is already exists and has always existed as potential. What's the difference between an illusion and a dream? They’re both ways of describing a fleeting reality which has no solid substance or corporeal materiality per se. So yes, "Beginnings and ends are all dreams. It seems so real, but they're all dreams." Neville Goddard.

(12 May '11, 14:34) Eddie

well it depend on your perception of things what if some dream are more real then reality. so reality would not be a dream but a sub standard. then again what if dream is not illusion but just another state of being. then there is no illusion just different level of being and things to grasp and be aware of. and eddie it is not because you do not see something that it is not real. you might not see the wind but when it becomes a tornado you will start to see it and is effect.

(14 Jul '11, 03:20) white tiger

Well, we obviously do not agree on certain concepts white tiger and that's OK. No one is ever wrong from their own perspective, whatever works for you is cool. BTW your English is very good now...

(14 Jul '11, 06:22) Eddie
showing 2 of 6 show 4 more comments

I think Zen is about realising that everything is ephemeral, impermanent, and therefore precious and perfect in its brief moment of existence. Happiness, sadness, beauty, tragedy - everything will keep changing, so there is no need to hang on to anything.

Once we can grasp this truth (which is not easy), we will be able to take everything as it comes, with equanimity, and appreciate every single moment for what it is i.e. live in the moment in the fullest way possible.


answered 29 Apr '11, 03:32

Pat%20W's gravatar image

Pat W

yes in dhyan there is nothing to hang on anny more everything is solve!

(04 May '11, 15:10) white tiger

Zen was born in India (Dhyan) grew in china (ch'an) and blossomed in Japan (Zen)

Born from Buddha, Mahavira, Tilopia, Gorakh and Kabir from their teachings in India of how to separate your self from the wheel of life.

*Dhyan means to be so alone that there is nothing to meditate on. No object, just simple subjectivity exists~consciousness without clouds, a pure sky.

It is said that it all began when Buddha was about to give a lecture which were usually quite lively. This time Gautam came with just a flower. Time passed, he said nothing just looked at the flower. The crowd gre restless, but a man could not help himself any longer and laughed.

Buddha beckoned over the man and said "All that can be given to you with words, I have given to you: but with this flower, I give this man the key to all the teachings. This story is said to be the beginning of zen.

I think what this says is that all great teachings can not be given verbally either to Buddha, Jesus or Lao-Tzu.

Zen means there are no words to describe it. That is the great thing about it and humor is a part of zen. The fact that you can not describe it. Like what is the sound of one hand clapping?.

Zen is a cross between Buddhas thought and LAo-Tzu's thought.

Zen is not a religion, not a dogma, not a creed. Zen is not even a quest, an inquiry; it is non-philosophical.The fundamental of the Zen approach is that all is as it should be, nothing is missing. Tis very moment everything is perfect~ OSHO


answered 29 Apr '11, 04:35

you's gravatar image


i like that part that is very true dhyan consciousness without cloud a pure sky!

(04 May '11, 15:07) white tiger

Although that gives you the historical context, it is pretty dry. So my personal belief: At it's core, zen is about understanding the nature of suffering. As Harold Kushner once said (and I am paraphrasing):

Life is difficult. But once you accept that fundamental truth, your suffering is diminished, and life becomes less difficult.

In truth, people cause most of their own suffering. I forget where I heard this, but it's absolutely true:

95% of what we worry about never happens, and the other 5% is out of our control, so why worry about it anyway?


answered 27 Apr '11, 20:00

Vesuvius's gravatar image


edited 27 Apr '11, 20:12

well knowing that life is difficult does not help you more! getting a better perception of why life is difficult can help you make better choice! one that just accept that life is difficult could make other people life difficult to make is less difficult! or could go the other way and suicide to not have to bear it!

(27 Apr '11, 20:18) white tiger

It is not the things that happen to you that cause you to suffer, it is the way you respond to those things that causes your suffering.

(27 Apr '11, 23:07) Vesuvius

it is the fact that you accept it that cause suffering! if you meditate enuff you will see it!if people harm you or talk bad about you you do not have to let it affect you! it is not your problem it is there problem!they cause there own downfall! what is it to you that they say bad things only people that want to fall will believe them!what is it to you that they harm you this is just a physical body that will die eventually! sure it would be more perfect if those things did not happen but this world is imperfect! you come here to learn from it!and experiance it!

(01 May '11, 06:20) white tiger
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