It seems the more I grow the more I feel that free will is not really operating any longer...all decisions have to be in alignment with that higher state of being or they just don't make sense, in other words our choices are driven by the Source that drives the Universe and only choices that benefit the Whole in some way do make sense...old options are no longer viable.
Is this in fact what letting go of resistance or the Art of allowing or, in religious terms, trusting God is all about? When we begin to embody a higher way of being , do we in fact relinquish our free will ? (I'm not referring to minor things like do I want salad or pizza for supper)
asked 06 Aug '11, 01:58
No, each person has a free will choice within the idea of a life experience.
After studying the work of several beings, the following ideas resonate and make sense to me, so I’ve integrated them into my total understanding. My understanding (remembering) is not complete, but the more I remember, the better I feel and the easier it becomes to remember more. Consider this:
Yes, that choice even applies to choosing pizza or salad :)
answered 27 Mar '12, 05:07
@Eddie, to comment on your post, point1 - you believe here your higher self made a choice. Equally to that, it did not. In other words we could say "it chose what it would have chosen anyway for it had no other choice" point 8 - So can be said, that the path (you refer) as chosen by higher self could be such and provide you with more awareness. And seeming free will to "change" the destiny you thought you had until know, is only next logical step in the already "pre-chosen" scenario.
(27 Mar '12, 05:53) CalonLan
point 9 - If we assume that the life is already running on a script, and only our ego-self can try to seemingly oppose it, then again we can also assume that the ego-self was created on purpose, or as a part of that script, to give the experience of overcoming it.
But then again, as I already said, it's duality we are discussing here and upon understanding duality concept it looses all its meanings we assigned to it. Then again, we might go back to them and live by them if that's our momentum.
(27 Mar '12, 05:57) CalonLan
Canonlan lets say that i ask you where do you want to go? what do you want to work on there?etc. then you will pick something make a choice. then i send you there according to your choice. then you arrive here in this world you still have free will but have the limitation of this world. but all that you choose is there. the only problem is that you do not remember it. well i would not say loose all its meaning more gain is meaning because you are on a learning process that is part of the program
(27 Mar '12, 06:13) white tiger
@white tiger, when you ask me where do I want to go, in order for me to reply, I must know something. Perhaps a place or an activity which appeals to me. If I didn't know anything. I could not make a choice, because I would not have knowledge of anything to "choose" from.
So to every "choice", there is "because". No choice is made without it. I "choose"..., "because".... So there you see "because" is the past experience pre-determinant for the present experience ("choice").
(27 Mar '12, 06:23) CalonLan
Eddie can we say that we are God's jesus said it after all. it is writen in the bible. we are made in the image of God the father the alpha and omega. the father and the childs. "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes" (Psalm 82:6-7). higher self true self also apply but that is your immortal nature after all. i just find it weird that you apply it as something out side of you when it is you.
(27 Mar '12, 06:27) white tiger
What you do today are choices guided by your choices of yesterday. And so will choices of your tomorrow be guided by choices of today.
I understand Bashar says that present is not result of the past, and the future is not result of the present. But even this understanding of "choosing" to be a different person than you are and "changing your present" is another "because" for that change. So it is paradox, because you if you change who you are upon that understanding, it determined the change.
(27 Mar '12, 06:31) CalonLan
jesus told it to the jew when they where offuscated that he said he was God son. he called every one brother and sister.he said we would do greater things then him and that he would live in us.aka holy spirit. the only thing i would see if religious people know the truth and do not want to accept it is because they are afraid of 2 things 1: they would lose there power over other. 2 : some people could could go on power trip and try to fly jumping down from building.
(27 Mar '12, 06:34) white tiger
@white tiger, I agree with you in regards to you last comment. I was atheist most of my life, because the idea of God was really alien to me, as it was presented to me in my childhood in a way that God is "someone else". Like a king and I'm only his servant that should be praying for his mercy not to be killed by his wrath. But my understanding lead me to realization, that the God is manifested through every single being. God is not in "us". He is us. Upon realizing that all negativity dropped.
(27 Mar '12, 06:41) CalonLan
your higher self is you out of this physical world and after your mind. so how can your higher self be a conduit? or do you say that because of diferent level of awareness between this world and the truth. in that case it is only the perception that is in cause and where you stand.
(27 Mar '12, 06:44) white tiger
@CalonLan, like I said, there are different levels. At present I'm focusing on enjoying my life in my present and working out the most enjoyable way and thus, the best way for me, as a physical self, to experience that.
For the sake of satisfying your curiosity, let's assume that our higher self (the next frequency level above ours) is also acting upon its feelings, which result from the choices of its own higher self and so on, up through the levels.
I'm reluctant to go beyond that idea.
(27 Mar '12, 23:26) Eddie
@white tiger, how does saying: I am the imagination of my higher self in any way imply that it's outside of me? It's more like I am inside it, and thus not separate from it in any way...
(27 Mar '12, 23:30) Eddie
i see it in another way Eddie iam is you and you are spirit one of God's children. you are in your body and your mind. until you leave your body. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQrsvmDNG1c&feature=related Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
(28 Mar '12, 04:26) white tiger
@white tiger, first you make a statement which implies that I am somehow wrong. Then I ask you how my saying, I am the imagination of my higher self implies separation? You choose to ignore that and again imply that I must be wrong because you are right.
As I said, I appreciate your opinion, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it, ever. I can accept that you believe it and if that serves you, what's the problem? Why the constant need to defend? Consider what I'm saying below...
(28 Mar '12, 04:51) Eddie
There's being right about what you know...
Then there's being helpful because you know...
When you know that, then you know that being helpful does not mean to continually push your point of view upon others!
There are as many paths to truth as there are beings who walk those paths.
Enough Said, Namaste :)
(28 Mar '12, 04:57) Eddie
ok Eddie. I am the imagination of my higher self implies separation. how does that make sense: i am = what you are. imagination is what you create in your mind. higher self is you and you put it outside of you. implies seperation .and of course it create separation.
(28 Mar '12, 05:14) white tiger
It's very fitting that this post is about the egoic mind, you gotta love the synchronicity :)
(28 Mar '12, 06:13) Eddie
@Eddie, well, I guess I understand now.That is I understand the understanding itself, and beyond that there is nothing else to understand. I have, after all, all the answers within me, and if I see what "discussions" really are, then it's just one perspective vs another. In many ways, from agreeing, persuasive, disagreeing, etc. But at this moment, I got no questions to ask anymore. I have all the answers anyway. So I see this discussion as a way of amusing myself in my own specific intelectual
(28 Mar '12, 07:24) CalonLan
way. Now I truly get when someone said "life is a joy ride, nothing else". And I get why so many people trapped in their own perception of life interpret it WITHIN that perception and not without it. Life's awesome <3 :D
(28 Mar '12, 07:26) CalonLan
yes Canonlan discussion is sharing the truth with no ego to stop us so we can better our self. if there is ego the truth have some false in it. when you tell the truth to someone and he cannot accept it you know right away who is in control of him self. when someone try to put stuff of them self on you it is the same.
(28 Mar '12, 19:10) white tiger
Ahh, white tiger, your difficulty in understanding lies in your idea of the word truth. Truth is always relative to a persons current perspective. By insisting that there is such a thing as absolute truth, when in truth, there's no such thing; then you automatically believe that your truth is The Truth and so anyone who doesn't see and/or agree with your truth, must somehow be made to be wrong in your eyes :) Can you allow yourself to move beyond that idea or do you enjoy being stuck?
(29 Mar '12, 00:53) Eddie
Oh btw, white tiger, your English language writing skill has vastly improved since you joined IQ. Well done :)
(29 Mar '12, 00:54) Eddie
who is making that judgement Eddie? the same one is having difficulty.
(29 Mar '12, 15:34) white tiger
showing 2 of 22 show 20 more comments
Free will is always there. It is essential for making choices, for making mistakes and learning from them, for growth, and eventually for becoming one with our I-Self and the Transcendental Network (Source, Universal Spirit, God, ...).
What you are experiencing is the ceasing of struggle between your Me-Self (body-mind, ego) and your I-Self (higher or true self) of which Me-Self is the physical part.
It is true that the more we align with our I-Self, the more the egoic decisions our Me-Self makes vanish. They don't seem to make sense anymore because in the greater context they don't ;)
Nothing we think or do relates only to ourselves; the whole universe is based on teamwork. Our Me-Self however cannot perceive the context. Its primary purposes are to ensure our physical survival on this physical earth, and to provide our I-Self with unique experiences I-Self could not make otherwise, with no other Me-Self but ours. This is why initially the separation between Me-Self and I-Self is necessary.
As you grow, you do not relinquish free will, although to Me-Self it may very well feel like it, like ego-surrender or even ego-death. The greater the ego, the greater the struggle, and the more painful this process will be. And yes, the more you develop the ability to let go and trust, the easier it gets. In choosing to do so, you ARE using your free will.
answered 08 Aug '11, 03:28
Yes and I love the 'I self' and 'me self' analogy. Thank you so much and welcome to IQ :)
(08 Aug '11, 11:30) Michaela
Thank you for your welcome, Michaela :) - I'm glad I could help
(08 Aug '11, 15:47) Maria 3
my answer to this is that our choices are based on how we feel, how we feel always shows the right path to follow.
answered 06 Aug '11, 18:04
I believe that most people just dont like how the truth feels.
(07 Aug '11, 10:13) Roy
@blubird...I think you came closest to what I was trying to convey...if we really listen to how we feel, there is only choice that feels right :)
(07 Aug '11, 11:33) Michaela
(07 Aug '11, 15:26) blubird two
@Shift Happens-the truth is a flowery path always evolving
(07 Aug '11, 15:29) blubird two
showing 2 of 4 show 2 more comments
Yes this is letting God in control, God will not interfere with free will. It must be up to us to let God in control. We are the ones that choose God's will over our own. If we see a friend that needs help and are being lead toward that friend we go, we don't say wow all the pieces are falling into place for me to help him but my favorite show is starting! God hold on I'll have to put you on hold for about an hour I'll get back to you later, (in the mean time unknown to you your friend is about to do himself in)
answered 06 Aug '11, 02:37
Thank you Wade :)
(06 Aug '11, 11:35) Michaela
thank you wade very good video. i have experience and enjoy it.
(26 Mar '12, 23:52) white tiger
You are very welcome Michaela and White Tiger, I am glad you liked it. :-)
(29 Mar '12, 01:30) Wade Casaldi
Free will is the greatest gift a human being has. Your thoughts are your own and you can think whatever you like. You can choose to do or not do certain things.
You talk of giving up free will for the good of God or the Source as the whole but who is God or the Source if not yourself. Every choice you relinquish for a higher good you are relinquishing for your own good. Who wouldn't want to do or think for their own good?
Do you have free will. Yes you do. You can think or do what's best for the Whole or you can choose not to.
answered 06 Aug '11, 18:19
Thanks Paulina :)
(07 Aug '11, 11:34) Michaela
very good Paulina.
(29 Mar '12, 15:36) white tiger
We do not really have free will. We are not really separate individuals, we are part of the whole, the 'Is' 'God' 'Consciousness' whatever you want to call it.
The concept of 'me' 'I' is just a thought. When we look inside ourselves, we cannot find this 'me' - just thoughts about 'me' There is a body with feelings and sensations, but no 'me' inside.
There are apparent choices, between one thought or another, but there is no individual person choosing, they are just thoughts appearing in 'what is'
Oneness is all there is. Appearing as duality - appearing as people, trees, oceans, mountains, planets, whatever.
Oneness playing hide and seek with itself, pretending to be separate.
It's all just a game, a movie, appearing as reality.
answered 07 Aug '11, 12:52
I like this...thanks :)
(08 Aug '11, 11:29) Michaela
The concept of 'me' 'I' is just a thought. When we look inside ourselves, we cannot find this 'me' - just thoughts about 'me' There is a body with feelings and sensations, but no 'me' inside. if there was no you inside of you we would not be having this conversation.
(28 Mar '12, 05:22) white tiger
Nice answer Magus
(29 Mar '12, 14:41) Lance
your destiny is effected by the value of the use of free will,
answered 07 Aug '11, 23:07
Different perspective...thanks fred :)
(08 Aug '11, 11:28) Michaela
very good fred.
(28 Mar '12, 19:12) white tiger
You do not have what we call "free will", because every choice you make is based upon triggers, which are in fact other choices or reasons. Even all there is does not have what we call "free will". It is ever evolving MOMENTUM.
Every part of all there is, provides experience to itself, and these experiences are in a way triggers which either keep the momentum going in its current course or they deflect it from its current course. And so is our planet, speaking in terms of our physical reality, nothing but an ever evolving momentum!
You don't even have a choice between pizza and salad. You only have an illusion of being free to choose. It is our human physical limitation that does not allow us to see things in full context, and this context of things is the momentum rather than the zero point at which we would have "free will".
While, due to our physical limitations it is hard to see it so clearly at this very moment as it is happening right now, we can easily demonstrate it on our past! Which is what our brain is able to examine. Look into your past and you will see for yourself that EVERY SINGLE CHOICE YOU MADE WAS GUIDED BY A REASON, and there was another reason for you having that reason, and another for that one and so on and so forth.
So you only think you have a choice, pizza or salad, maybe you are going in favor of pizza tonight, and upon reading this post you might want to decide that you will demonstrate your FREE WILL and choose salad instead. But really, then my comment would be the reason for you having salad instead of pizza tonight and there is NOTHING YOU COULD DO ABOUT IT.
That's all that free will is - just an illusion caused by lack of understanding of the momentum.
I understand that egos of many will stand in the way of understanding this and they will oppose, but instead of seeing determinism as a bad thing, look at it positively. And even now that I mention positivity your mind might change your point of view on determinism because of what I just said.
In the end, whether you think you have a free choice, BECAUSE it makes you sleep better at night, or embrace the idea of the momentum, it doesn't matter. One, it's already destined to be that way, and second, both free will and determinism are one. And as separate they don't exist.
So we are back to the very basic that all is just a matter of perception.....which is then matter of something else and so on and so forth. ;)
answered 26 Mar '12, 11:48
yes there is something i could do about it i could have both or none or pick something else. then i move your free will assessment. and your duality choice. and use my free will.
(26 Mar '12, 17:57) white tiger
I believe in determinisem but I never took it to the level you do on our free will. This is a very interesting thing to ponder. I know of the law of determinisem through the Rosicrucians so I do see where you are coming from. I always said there is no chance or luck everything determins something else. But I saw men as cause though not as part of the the system thus co-creators with God. For example every invention we have man had to imagine and put his mind on how to create this thing to exist.
(28 Mar '12, 10:45) Wade Casaldi
you have free will. that is the gift from god. so use your free will wisely. stay in harmony. look at everything from nature all is in harmony. for example: plant a tree it will grow it does not matter that it is sunny or it rain or it snow etc. it will still grow and multiply. you will get a forest. but look at human can you say that we are in harmony? or do we do stupid stuff and suffer from those decision? example: war, disease, famine etc. all that for ego desire and sin. why blame god? it is our free will that is doing that. so experience and enjoy.
answered 06 Aug '11, 03:07
Yes white tiger nature doesn't operate by free will, it just IS. And I agree that it is our egoic mind's free will that is causing all those undesirable conditions on the planet. Thanks :)
(06 Aug '11, 11:38) Michaela
You know, Michaela, when I read your question, what popped into my little mind was this: "She's forcing it!"
Now, I don't know if that is just a gut reaction of sympathy, because I have been there where you stand; or, just perhaps, you need more time to "just be". It sounds like it to me.
Above all things, our God (Universe, Higher Power, Universal Mind, what-have-you) wants our happiness! Is all of this pushing yourself to always be in alignment with the Source actually making you happy? In fact, God uses our screw-ups, wrong decisions, and free days just as much, if not more, than when we are "in Alignment with the Source".
Maybe I'm all wet. I do not know. But I strongly suggest that you take a few days off to "just be"- no deliberate steps, no manifesting, no clear paths. Just be. Go to the sea, or a forest. To paraphrase Jesus, "The Trees do not worry about how they will be fed, so why should you?"
Judging from your attention to IQ, I would guess that you are an "alpha" sort of person...try to be a "beta" for a while.
It cannot hurt, and maybe you will find an answer in that peace. The fact that you feel you have lost your free will seems to be an important clue. Pay attention.
answered 06 Aug '11, 04:26
Not sure that you got what I was trying to convey Jai. Where I'm at right now 'manifesting' and 'clear paths' are probably the last thing on my mind... I'm embracing the most 'uncertain' period of my life and actually doing ok with it. I don't see this as a 'screw up' or as a 'wrong decision' but as a necessary step in my own growth process albeit not an easy one. I know free will is always available, however I think when we evolve to a certain level our decisions can really only go in one directions. Thanks :)
(06 Aug '11, 11:48) Michaela
I think I read you loud and clear now--I think I had to make a similar decision about my long-dead marriage three years ago, and it was agonizing. I am sorry that I may have misinterpreted you- BUT! I still have this "gut feeling" that you need some time off. Love ya!>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
(06 Aug '11, 15:37) Jaianniah
you can go in anny direction you like. like staying in this world or staying in heaven next to god. you have free will you make the choice. at what ever level you are the option are always open. experience and enjoy.
(07 Aug '11, 12:44) white tiger
We have free will, and our thoughts and actions have consequences. When the stove is on, it is hot. We know that if we touch the hot stove we will be burned. We have free will to not touch the stove and not be burned, or touch the stove and be burned. Free will allows us to choose to touch or not touch the stove, it doesn't let us choose the consequences. I guess in this case, some people do choose not to be burned when they touch the hot stove, or walk over hot coals, etc... But for most people, without training their mind to not get burned, they have the choice of action, not consequences.
Edit, added some text per comment.: Yes, we still have to work within the confines and limits of being human. As a human, we are who we are and therefore have our 'job' to do or 'purpose' that is unique to us. How we do that job, or whether we do that job is our free will. Our individual cells have jobs, but not free will, so they do their job. Individual cells make up cell communities that make up our lips and arms, etc... Lips in themselves don't have free will, but are told what to do by our thoughts. It is our thoughts that give us our free will. It starts with the thoughts we choose to allow. Trees have their job, but not free will. Our free will doesn't give us a choice to will ourselves to be a human or a tree, but as a human, we have free will of our thoughts and actions. So, free will doesn't extend to our higher purpose, but how we handle or don't handle our higher purpose. Like how we play a hand of cards that was dealt to us. We didn't choose the cards (Some might say they did) but we choose how to play the hand.
Edit:3/26/12 I think I understand what you are asking now.
Yes, we have free will. However, the more we learn and grow, the less options seem viable at that time. For example, to a child, running accross the busy street to get to the ice cream truck seems like a good idea. The child being young, doesn't understand the dangers of running accross the busy street. An older, wiser, more educated, experienced, enlightened person would look both ways and cross the street carefully. And so it is all the way through life, we get wiser, more experience, etc... That doesn't mean that we don't have free will to choose to do as we will, it just means that less options seem to be in our best interest. That would be the narrow path that Jesus mentioned.
There are alternate realities to accomodate for all the options we face. It is throught these alternate realities that we get to explore what if's through the Universal Mind or the Mind of God or the Matrix.
answered 06 Aug '11, 04:52
Yes I agree we have free will for the practicalities in life. Not too sure I got across what I was trying to convey. Thanks Fairy Princess :)
(06 Aug '11, 11:50) Michaela
Maybe a better way of explaining it would be to say that yes to the 'lower (human) self' free will is always available but to the 'higher (spirit) self' there is only ever one option available that is for the greatest good of all. And when we access the wisdom of that 'higher self', that option is the one we have to follow :)
(06 Aug '11, 14:00) Michaela
@Fairy Princess, but then again, the child will run across the street, BECAUSE he lacks the understanding of danger of doing so and is guided by desire of ice-cream. While an older man will not, BECAUSE of understanding importance of understanding the danger of crossing the street. How is it free will then if the decision is conditioned and "guided" by that understanding. And that understanding itself, is conditioned and guided by some other understanding. It's merely momentum building itself.
(26 Mar '12, 12:27) CalonLan
@CalonLan It's still a choice, even if it is an educated decision.
(26 Mar '12, 13:36) Fairy Princess
@Fairy Princess Let me ask you another way. Why do we choose what we choose, what is it we base our decision on? You see now? Even if we choose something because of a feeling we have in the given moment, we have that feeling because we had a certain experience, physical or mental, and how did we get to that experience? Because there was another experience preceeding it and another preceeding that one. Choice then is another world for experience. We then "choose" what we would have chosen anyway.
(26 Mar '12, 14:13) CalonLan
showing 2 of 5 show 3 more comments
This is a very good question. Feelings, can be deceptive. They can be based on ineffective lessons that one has to unlearn. Your awareness has narrowed down your most effective paths for life. This almost gives the presence of choices being already chosen. You are absolutely effective in one perspective. But ineffective because of the relative nature of the reference. All choices are valid, but in this life, you will only choose one path to the end. All possible choices that you could choose have already been made. You are making ONE track. However, you can make whatever track you would like to make, even though it has already been made. It is a paradox because of our frame on reference is linear, when in reality it is parallel. The alpha and omega are the same and one with infinity. The part of your statement that is correct is the best possible effective choice. That has been chosen also, but for your alternative choices it might not be. Free will, is just a statement of hope. We are guided by survival, and this leads us to the most effective choice for the moment. Our choices are a reflection of where our mind is. Once the Ego shrinks, you are on your own. You are defenseless once this happens because your awareness realizes the scope of what it really is. Infinity.
answered 26 Mar '12, 20:45
The Knights Alchemy
survival is ego job for your physical life your body your house. but you have free will and most not let it control you. you need to act from spirit and truth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPFoqJVzP1s you are spirit that reside in this body and you have all the tools to find the truth. seek and you shall find.
(28 Mar '12, 00:49) white tiger
showing 0 of 1 show 1 more comments
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