There was a time when I used to consult the I Ching using the 50 sticks method (not the 3-coin method).

To this day, I am convinced that the I Ching gave really uncannily spot-on answers, like there was a living being really listening and answering my questions. I recorded all my questions and the answers I got, and I am still amazed by it. I have always wondered who was behind those answers - a Divine Being? God? The Universe? A ghost?

Does anyone here have any theories about it?

I stopped consulting it because I wanted to know Who was answering. And also, because I am now in a more "accepting" kind of mode i.e. I accept whatever is happening and no longer strive to ask for answers and direction - I try to live by faith now.

asked 19 Nov '09, 03:45

Pat%20W's gravatar image

Pat W

edited 06 Feb '12, 04:47

Barry%20Allen's gravatar image

Barry Allen ♦♦

There are some theories that go with the idea that there are 'other beings' of some sort interfering when one "divines." For example, in traditional geomancy, some have the idea that so called elementals influence one. While I have my reasons to believe there are "non-physical beings"...I find the idea that one would want to influence someones divination about some mundane matter utterly absurd.

Another theory put forth, is that our subconscious - or some higher being - (though one that is linked to us, and perhaps actually us, despite appearing separate) has a greater knowledge of things than we do, and thus may manipulate events in a way, which we can then interpret accordingly to a somewhat 'set' basis. I side with this view more.

My reason for siding with that viewpoint, is because I have worked with tarot and to a less extent runes in the past. The accuracy went up dramatically after I went through a study of the meanings, to a deeper level where one gets those 'aha' moments and a sort of...'opening' in the brain with a corresponding shock. I cannot quite put that experience into words, I'm afraid. That suggests that it has something to do with the person divining.

Additionally, I know that it is quite possible to influence events to an almost unbelievable degree - and all one is doing with divination is affecting the events leading to particular cards being drawn, runes being face up etc. I also know that we potentially have access to information we "should not be privy to", through flashes of insight for example. I consider divination methods a way for that knowledge to be delivered on a conscious level.

Another possible mechanism, is that through the "insight" developed through using divination (particularly if it has been shown true before) then one believes it to be true. This belief then causes a person to take actions they may not normally take. Those actions result in the outcome divined - regardless of whether the person actually had any idea about the future. I believe this can sometimes be how it works, however, definitely not always - and it can be dismissed if someone divines for someone else and does not mention what would happen, yet it happens. Or by looking into the past and present circumstances leading up to where they are now correctly (without having known). [When I was working with tarot, whenever I (rarely) divined for someone else, I did not want them to tell me their issue - if I could not tell it through the cards, then I wouldn't trust myself to not let my mind just imagine things and interfere - I also made sure I had the past and present situation well understood through the divination method before going into the future]

My condolences to anyone who actually read through all that. I have a terrible tendency to ramble on.


answered 19 Nov '09, 07:54

Liam's gravatar image


I liked this and believe we both agree, said pretty much the same in our own words and ways, so please do ramble on I enjoyed it! :-D

(19 Nov '09, 08:11) Wade Casaldi

Yes, we do both agree. It's nice to see how different people explain similar thoughts. And thanks, I probably would ramble on regardless. :)

(19 Nov '09, 08:36) Liam

I did not see it as rambling I saw it as further explaining Liam

(22 Nov '09, 08:04) flowingwater
showing 2 of 3 show 1 more comments

I believe as I said before about our world being a determinism world that, the questions and the open receptiveness along with the big book that can cover many many answers all contribute to your "randomly" picking the right answers. The right brain knows beyond what is apparent it has not a fixed position of time or space it operates in a very abstract way and thus can easily lead you to pick the best answers. It is a question to your self and your self knows the answers because the answer is the other side of the question so they come from the same source, you have just provided a convenient medium for your right brain to give you a proper answer. That is the same for any fortune telling thing from cards to dice to dominoes to runes all the same, it is a kind of crude way when you realize you are answering you then you realize by using these things as tools you are limiting yourself. Kind of like the difference between a guy that carries a lucky penny around to have luck and a master that creates his own luck. They both create their own luck just one does so as the Fool in the deck of the tarot and the other does so as the Hierophant, I am not saying one is below the other, both do the same but the fool in the deck believes his powers come from the symbols and tools, he needs those for his luck his answers etc.. The Hierophant knows any tools are just to increase his belief his faith to get answers or have luck and thus understands he needs nothing but himself.

That Hierophant level is what we all are striving for until then we have our tools as the I-Ching to help us, but we must always realize the answers are not from out side of us they are from within us, otherwise we give up our power and authority as co-creators.

In other words we can't become dependent we must grow from needing tools.

I used to read Merlin and something struck me that I have experienced in my dreams matching identical in growth. First level magick needs tools Second level magick needs just words Third level magick needs just hand gestures Fourth level magick needs just thought (I may have third and second switched)

If we compare that with Jesus he was at that fourth level, we all need to strive to reach that level that all we need is our faith and it is done.


answered 19 Nov '09, 07:44

Wade%20Casaldi's gravatar image

Wade Casaldi

edited 19 Nov '09, 08:15

These are very interesting answers, Wade and Liam! Certainly gives me a new perspective. But if it's really my higher self / subconscious, how did my higher self know all the passages in the I-Ching, and the corresponding numbers, and lead me to pick all the random sticks to create the various patterns that eventually lead to the numbered passages? It's quite a miracle then. This is the only part I'm grappling with (in a good way, I mean i.e. in wonder).

(19 Nov '09, 08:58) Pat W

All books are exoteric expressions of the esoteric thoughts, in other words any book is a hard copy of a set of thoughts in the collective consciousness, the collective consciousness already knows every book there is every word every page.

(19 Nov '09, 09:51) Wade Casaldi

If you are thinking whoa that is deep, honestly I just had the same thought after I wrote that, like where did that come from wow! lol

(19 Nov '09, 09:53) Wade Casaldi

Hmmm. Does it mean we would already know what is in Dan Brown's latest novel? :D

OK jokes aside - someone asked a new question about Ouija boards. It seems close enough to the I-Ching, yet the answers are very different from what I got here. People seem to think that there is something supernatural behind the board, which could invite evil presences. Nobody seems to think that about the I-Ching...?

(20 Nov '09, 01:33) Pat W

Actually Dan Brown has to think of the words and sentences so yes he is writing his book in collective consciousness before he is typing it on paper. If collective consciousness knows no time but all time is now even books that will not be wrote for a hundred years would be there in that mind now even long lost books like from the Alexandra library are there now. I am seeing an unresolved paradox here, the absolute IS and we live in determinism. I'll need meditate on this for sure!

(20 Nov '09, 06:13) Wade Casaldi

Thanks for the interesting dialogue!

(31 Dec '10, 21:12) The Traveller

well wade one does not stop the other. the absolute IS(i am that i am). what choice did you determine in your existance? did you sometime made wrong choice and learned from it and change them?both side exist and you have free will just like the absolute. and you are responsible for your choice. just like the absolute IS. experience and enjoy.

(09 Dec '11, 19:56) white tiger
showing 2 of 7 show 5 more comments

Oh yes Pat W i know the feeling of wonder ... as a beginner using divining methods back in 1999 and when i first started to really consciously search, accept and perceive a definite energy, i was really scared, i looked around the room searching for an invisible force or ghost, a sort of invisible hand that seemed to guide the movements of my pendulum ... :)

I ching is a fascinating method of divination, our bodies including each of our hands and fingers have different polarities and in handling the sticks (poles) they accumulate negative and positive charges, they become polarized with our energy intentions ... polarized meaning one end of the stick has a positive charge and the other end has a negative charge, exactly like a pole magnet is perception of this energy language that gives the impression of a living being really listening and answering. The bagua compass was built on the same principles, a complex system of polarized broken and full lines ... ref.

I ching is based on the chinese book of changes ... this book itself is essentially based on the 64 hexagrams each of which is linked to a sacred character and possess 7 different senses, of which divination is the lowest.

At the cosmic origin of the 64 hexagrams of i ching is the tai-chi, a circle of which the surface is split in two by an "s" shape ... we name it the yin yang and it is the figuration of the male (white) and female (black) principles.

These forces represented by the yin yang, trigrams and the hexagrams are essentially living and spiritualised forces, the material energies are just aspects of them.

The earth is transpierced, as all things that exist, by an initial flow of force the feng shui ... the feng shui can only be perceived by its' effects ... the yin, the black part, feminine, creative energy, (-)negative, impair numbers or the yang, the white part, masculine, life and light, pair numbers, (+)positive.

Our interpretation would be ; yin- involution or progressive materialization ... yang-evolution or progressive spiritualization.

These absolute principles can only be perceived in their manifestations, especially in their polarized lines without which no perception is possible. These lines would be full, rigid, severe, firm - i.e. yang(-) or broken, soft, malleable i.e. yin(--). However if in the absolute principles the impair numbers correspond to yin and pair to yang, in the order of manifestations yin(--) corresponds to pair numbers and yang(-) corresponds to impair numbers. This difference is important especially when using the yin yang(circle divided by s) or figures and lines(trigrams and hexagrams).

In dowsing the yin yang can be used as a separator for chemical analysis for example.

The 8 trigrams are forces acting upon the whole of nature and always act in opposite couples in a compensatory equilibrium fashion ... here we come very close to the well known phenomena of the law of attraction and polarized positive/negative energies.

Your question could equally apply to any method of divination; tarot, hand reading, crystal ball reading, dowsing, ... the list is long.

From personal experience dowsing i suggest that the forces involved are the natural spiritual energies that are brought into play whenever we consciously concentrate on a particular image ... anyone who has fully understood the teachings of the master key system knows this.

have a great day


answered 09 Dec '11, 10:40

blubird%20two's gravatar image

blubird two

edited 06 Feb '12, 10:13

Hi blubird, thanks a lot for taking the time to answer this :) Yes, I have been repeatedly amazed by the spot-on answers even as recently as a month ago.

(10 Dec '11, 15:02) Pat W
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