I've studied for years the teachings of different masters, and recently got to know channeled beings such as Abraham and Bashar, and I noticed there is a difference in their messages.

Masters such as Lester Levenson, Buddha, Jesus and many others barely touch the idea of manifestation and reality creation. Of course they mention it and explain that we create our reality, but their message is basically "reality is an illusion and we want you to wake up". Their goal is to bring people to transcend this world and "get out of the game", they present desire as suffering, the world as a painful place, the mind as an obstacle. They basically couldn't care less if you manifest stuff, unless it helps you on your path to enlightenment.

On the other hand, channeled beings talk about different things... They are mostly extra-terrestrial beings or like Abraham a non-physical being, and their message is that desire is great, they talk all the time about manifestation and about expansion (rather than ascension), about the fun of experiencing this life while on your way to the next and so on. The idea is that you "stay in the game" forever, and they never speak about eliminating the mind and desire. They also, by the way, never speak about the end of resistance - since it causes you to launch new desires.

Why the difference in your opinion? Any thoughts about this?

asked 13 Oct '11, 10:08

Benjamin's gravatar image


edited 13 Oct '11, 11:07

Barry%20Allen's gravatar image

Barry Allen ♦♦

For the definitive answer to your question, you'd obviously have to ask those "Masters" themselves what they really meant :)

But here's my definitely un-Master-like perspective on it... :)

I think the basic problem lies with that word "Master".

With the way that word is commonly used, it elevates the target of it to a god-like status where they can effectively do no wrong and everything they say is the "ultimate truth".

Personally, I don't believe for a moment that anyone from any time period has, or has had, the "ultimate truth". All perspectives are eternally evolving. And if there are people who go around calling others ""Masters" and giving the opinions of those "Masters" more credence than their own inner intuitive insights then they are ultimately misguided.

On that brief list of "Masters" you mentioned, there's the name of Jesus. I come from a Muslim background so I've always grown up with thinking of him as just "some guy"...I don't really get all the hero-worship we see on this website from time to time. But I'm aware there are many who follow the Christian religion who elevate him to a god-like status and treat every recorded utterance he supposedly made as being the final, ultimate truth on everything.

But even with Jesus, Abraham have said quite clearly in one of their recordings that he managed to get himself out of his Vortex to such an extent that he got himself nailed to a cross.

And I think that's really the way it is for all of us who project ourselves into this physical reality. During certain periods of our lives, we may have insights and live lifestyles that others may seek to label as "Master"-like and at other times we may just make a bit of a mess of everything :)

And it's all okay, either way, because we're all here (from our broader perspectives) for the experience of the physical reality, not to go around giving our power away to others, or trying to claim power from others with "Master"-like behavior.

So do I have a point to this answer?

Yes, I think I do and it's this...

Is it not possible that those "Masters" didn't have the clarity of information that we now have available?

Those "Masters" (or, in my view, insightful human beings) may have noticed that by squelching desire, they felt less pain about what they didn't physically have, and so they decided to spread that insight to others as a way of alleviating the apparent pain and suffering of others who were also not allowing what they wanted.

They were sincerely helping others with the information and insights that were available to them during the times they lived in. Perhaps some of them even knew a bigger picture than what they taught but were also aware that the general population was not going to listen to it.

But with the elevated vibrations of today, we (as a race) now have access to a bigger part of the story...we've brought ourselves to a point in our "evolution" where we can vibrationally match-up with channeled beings who can give us a broader, clearer overview.

Namely, that squelching desire is also squelching life-force itself. Yes, you can reduce the pain of living by trying to ignore the material world, but you'll also reduce the satisfaction and fulfillment you'll get from simply being alive. Life in the fast lane is where we instinctively want to be.

So, from my perspective, I don't really see the contradiction that you are suggesting is there...I just see updated information and terminology, and newer insights as a result of the heightened vibrational frequencies of the times we now live in.

Who knows...if Buddha, Jesus or Lester were incarnated today, they might very well be taking part in online internet discussion groups telling everyone that constant re-alignment with your eternally evolving desires is the key to life :)


answered 13 Oct '11, 16:58

Stingray's gravatar image


well stingray if you know that you still exist with out the body and their is no pain. the body is like a car. then it is not a question of ignoring the material world. it is a question of making the best out of this life. and the best is not to get all you desire. it will not make you happy. you do not believe me i know. but look at the rich they are not happy. look at buddha he was a rich prince and he was lacking something that is why he went to meditate.

(14 Oct '11, 02:36) white tiger

Actually, from all the posts I've read from Stingray here (and I've read every single one of his) I would say he would perfectly agree with you when you say "it is a question of making the best out of this life. and the best is not to get all you desire. it will not make you happy." Since for him apparently, it's not about "getting all my desires" (and he would say with Abraham "you will never get it done[never get all your desires])" That said, he probably doesn't agree with it in quite the same way you mean it...

(14 Oct '11, 05:22) Liam

@White Tiger - I think Liam has summed up my own point of view very well. As Liam implies, I suspect your intention was not to agree with me but you've (accidentally, I think) said what I've been saying (usually quoting Abraham) since coming onto this website :) As for your comment about the rich not being happy, surely you don't really believe that propaganda? I've known plenty of rich people who are extremely happy. Happiness is independent of the figure on your bank statement

(14 Oct '11, 09:14) Stingray

well stingray you can believe what you want but it does not mean it is true. and looking on the rich look at elvis presley, micheal jackson,john lennon,jim morrison, bill cosby,micheal j.fox, christoffer reeves and i could go on did being rich and famous solve all their problem? nope my intention is not to agree or not agree with you. but we see somethings not quite the same on some subject. and i agree with you that some see the bigger picture. has i said before all truth exist in the absolute truth and that is the truth. but you see it has belief feeling agree not agree (duality).

(15 Oct '11, 00:17) white tiger
showing 2 of 4 show 2 more comments

Hi Benjamin, I have no idea if this is right but the masters all had their time in physical form and teach truth, which is to overcome and transend the physical. (90% of earths population will tell you that physical life is painfull and full of suffering)

The non physical beings like Abraham haven't experianced earthly living and teach enjoiment of the physical life while learning that you are only a visitor and will one day return to the spiritual.

So who does one listen to? The masters or the non physical beings? There is no wrong answer here for eather way you will get to where you are going although personaly I like to think that one can take the best of both teachings given to man for man has a free choice to enjoy his time here a while before his wisdom seeks truth and he wants to transcend suffering.


answered 13 Oct '11, 14:58

Paulina%201's gravatar image

Paulina 1

well said Paulina. take what is good and leave the rest.

(14 Oct '11, 02:39) white tiger

Good observation Benjamin :) Everything has to do with vibration, right? And everything exists here and now and it always has and always will, therefore, all messages and every kind of channeled information is and has always been available to anyone who’s tuned in to receive it.

The Masters of old that you mention taught many of the same things that channeled entities of today teach, however, if you’re stuck in a belief that says you’re a finite being living in a single fixed reality, then the vibration of channeled information is not even available to you.

The hard shell of the box defined as reality by your ego-self’s limited perception must be cracked before you’ll even allow yourself permission to look beyond the artificial veil of physicality.

By teaching us things like: all reality is illusion (Buddha) and that unconditional love of self and others is the way forward in this game of ‘life on earth (Jesus);’ Masters help us to crack our shell and raise our vibrational frequency, through understanding, to a point where non-physical and extraterrestrial channeled messages are feasible and thus available to us, if we’re interested.

It’d be hard to follow your bliss or do what excites you the most when you’re born into and living in a world of pain, suffering and fear, thus, those things must be understood and transcended before moving on to the next ‘level of the game’ of being a conscious co-creator of your reality, no?

Finally, it’s worth remembering that all physical paths lead to the non-physical, spiritual or ethereal reality. And considering that we have eternity to ‘get there,’ our arrival is assured. And considering that there’s only here and now, indeed we’ve already arrived 8-)


answered 14 Oct '11, 04:47

Eddie's gravatar image


Ah the way I view what Jesus taught, other than how to treat one another (this is just my perspective regardless of what the fundamentalist, standard christian agenda may be teaching) is what we can achieve if we have faith aka. belief in self, law of attraction, being in the vortex, etc. whatever you want to call it, and that you can perform those great feats if you're at that level of unrelenting faith. He didn't question whether or not something would work when he performed miracles, he commanded and already knew they would. Same goes for the other ascended masters. I don't believe those standard religious concepts that we are meant and supposed to suffer and not have any worldly desires, that's just stupid and would essentially make life pointless (to me). I think life itself is a combination of these teachings, which technically you can choose whichever perspective you want to base your life around. Read some of neale donald walsch books conversations with god, it combines the two in subtle ways.


answered 28 Sep '13, 22:18

lex's gravatar image


I ve got to say that Jesus, or the writings we have in the Bible do teach about manifestation , getting what you want and enjoying life. Im staggered that people think that's not true.

Firstly the bible teaches that the "JOY" of the Lord is your strength. The ancient writers beat Esther Hicks to that one by a couple of thousand years.

The the bible teaches that if you believe "you" will ask what "you" desire and it will be done unto "you" Ive checked and theres no caveat in there saying it has to be stuff not of this reality. Ive also checked and theres nothing there that says it cant be for your own enjoyment or fun.

The Lord gives us richly "all thing" to enjoy. what to enjoy!! Yes to enjoy.

Now the extension of source energy that Esther Hicks teaches, again Christ taught that we are "ONE" with God, or joint heirs with Christ and heirs of God.

I like the channelled stuff don't get me wrong. But if you read the bible carefully , between the lines, you will see most of the supposed " new stuff" that's being taught today.

If you did a search of how many times the ancient writers ( whoever they were) mentioned the word "JOY" you would be quite surprised I think !

This is a very very insightful question , and I think it highlights for me at any rate how "OFF KILTER" the perception of what Christ teaches is. Im not surprised that many people view the bible and the teachings contained therin this way.

This is only my opinion but here it is anyway. If more people received the revelation that Neville Goddard has on biblical matters then they would see the bible as a book completely about manifesting your hearts desires and achieving the ultimate in love and joy that you can.

Im also sure that all the ancient " masters" have doubtless had the "original" message corrupted somewhat, perhaps watered down ,altered or lost in the translation. Thankfully the message taught by the chanellers is still in its original language and current enough to be reliably received in its true form.


answered 29 Sep '13, 00:34

Monty%20Riviera's gravatar image

Monty Riviera

edited 29 Sep '13, 00:39

Well put :)

(29 Sep '13, 02:29) lex

are we sure of the definition of life,
before we put it in the fast lane?
do we justify our use of feeding,
so that we attain our fantasies?
are we elite, priviledged or imagined,
do we bleed and are we to attain self-consciousness,
how does one separate the two?


answered 14 Oct '11, 00:02

fred's gravatar image


the fact is fred that you do not need to separate anny thing. just find harmony. all truth exist in the absolute truth. experience and enjoy.

(14 Oct '11, 02:42) white tiger

white tiger, we actually do separate when we choose our actions. whether intentional (consciously directed by our will) or not. each action is set off in a direction. do you know the way before your decisions, are there any over-riding factors or just fear?

(14 Oct '11, 21:51) fred

well like i have said you made the choice to come here to experience this world. if you get enlightement that is what you are going to learn and other stuff also. so you see none are wrong. in truth i tell you all truth exist in the absolute truth. but yes desire can sometime not be good for you. but are you wise enuff to know when? also you might manifest money and material things will you bring them with you when you die? when you look back at what you did when you came here you will say i have acquire this and that for my desire. but what good did i do for myself and other people around me? did i help people around me or was i to obsesse with my desire? is it worth it to win the world against your soul?

What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

well experience and enjoy.


answered 14 Oct '11, 02:25

white%20tiger's gravatar image

white tiger

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