Genuine question... I really don't know the answer.
I joined this site because I assumed that folk here were interested in seeking out the inner secrets and mysteries of their own Being. But an aweful lot seem to be more interested in being wealthy and healthy rather than wise?
I know... I am wracking up brickbats rather than bouquets .. but the question needs to be asked.
asked 04 Mar '10, 03:19
Inactive User ♦♦
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Manifesting in the outer world is proof that your inner ideas work.
A lot of people pay lip service to being wealthy, but they don't really want a bunch of paper notes with portraits of dead presidents on them. What they want are the things that money can buy. Or at least that's what they think they want.
What people really want is the feeling that they think those things will give them.
Of course, you can have the feeling without the thing. So why pursue the thing at all?
Because its the pursuit, the journey, that is the most important thing. It's that journey that produces wisdom, not the things or the money.
answered 04 Mar '10, 03:46
So manifesting successfully will give one confidence to work on the Inner Worlds?
(04 Mar '10, 04:57) Inactive User ♦♦
@Lorraine: Yes, eventually. For the short term, you have to have a "leap of faith" by working on your inner world first, before seeing reliable results in the outer world. Once that happens, it is a positive feedback loop. Success creates confidence, creating more success, and so forth.
(04 Mar '10, 06:21) Vesuvius
Vesuvius beat me to the point with his wonderful answer. But I feel like giving my answer to this question in my own way (even if only for myself...because I always learn when I answer questions hehe)
The outer world is the testing ground for the truths experienced on the Inward Quest.
I consider this important. Exploring our inner depths is dodgy at best...there is not much to grab on to. Above all else, what we are prone to by the nature of what we do, is self-delusion. So one must ask oneself...why am I going on this inward quest? For myself, one of the answers (I have a few) is to find my own truths.
There is a part of us, that does not wish us to explore inwards. I am not sure why. But it is there. It would prefer you don't try at all. But if you do, and persist, it will surrender on that front - and then the real issue begins. It throws up all sorts of experiences, and a whole load of bullshit and try and convince you it is true. If it succeeds at this, it has won...and though we continue to think we are exploring our inner being...all we are doing is exploring whatever this part of us desires to have us experience. And rest assured, there is no truth in its mockery of us.
The only way I know of, out of that dangerous situation, is to test in the outer world. Because, as far as I have experienced (in my admittedly short life this time around)...truth will always present to our conscious mind a means to test it in the external world...or at least, elements of it. If it does not present this opportunity, then the unveiled lie of that part of us should quickly be discarded. Only contraction of our life results from such a "truth."
In genuine laboratory alchemy (it does exist), the mystic performs inner meditation and exercises to explore, alter and unfold the self. The test of this growth is in the transmutation of the physical materials which they are working with. As far as they are concerned...if the materials do not change...you have not really changed or unfolded either, despite protests to the contrary.
In my personal opinion, merely going inward is not what we're here to do. The God within us, wants to express itself outwards. It enjoys it. It does not -really- need to go inwards...it knows itself plenty. Going inward is helpful to our conscious mind, far more than our inner being. Going inward allows us to touch it...and then it says to me "Enjoy the bliss...and now go out to your brothers and sisters...I want to do this for...and with them!"
As to what others seem to be interested in...people are always more than they seem to be. Some may appear one way, but one does not know what deep desires, ideas and feelings are brewing below the surface. It is the classic 'friendly giant'/"good book with a bad cover" issue.
Those who might "actually" just be interested in attaining health and wealth (though the fact is, even they are not interested merely in that) will eventually consciously desire other things. And, believe it or not...many of those who currently are only interested in inner wealth, such as wisdom...will begin to desire outer things. [Such was the case for me] Of course, one could desire health, wealth AND wisdom. It is not such a shocking thought. :P
answered 04 Mar '10, 06:46
Thank you Liam - some point you made made me stop and think - love that in a post! Had a lucid dream once where Hermes, clad in black leather came roaring over a hill on my left (spiritual side) on a motor bike... he replaced the book I was reading with one by Franz Bardon, in Hermetics. It was a book I had bought some time in the past an never read. I read it. I did wonder about the motor bike bit... then the penny dropped - he was riding a MERCURY? God has a sense of humour - doubtless!
(04 Mar '10, 21:51) Inactive User ♦♦
Hermes - the Greek Messenger of the Gods Mercury - the Roman Messenger of the Gods
(04 Mar '10, 21:52) Inactive User ♦♦
I am in complete agreement with Vesuvius's answer here.
I discovered this with my own life. Once I discovered that I could transform my circumstances with conscious focus or preference of intent within consciousness, I didn't have a desire to manifest all the material things in life, quite the contrary.
When you begin the journey by understanding the movements of your own consciousness, understanding that movement becomes the object of fascination, not the stuff on the outside reflecting the results of intention.
For me sitting in a brand new car doesn't feel any different from sitting in a reasonable car that is capable of taking me from A to B.
A large house feels very cold and un-inviting. Because I always pay attention to the "feeling" of things, I have always found that little cozy houses have the best feeling almost like a shelter of love.
I find that there is such a thing as "more than what you need". And when your desires to just manifest "stuff" go beyond that balance point, it actually causes a new kind of tension or discomfort.
When you trust yourself it matters not what you have. But when you trust other's opinions about you, all of a sudden the stuff that you have becomes a measure of judgement.
answered 04 Mar '10, 08:09
"And when your desires to just manifest "stuff" go beyond that balance point" - Our society has demonstrated over the centuries an inability to know when enough is enough. The world financial crises being a prime example. (I'm with you small is beautiful :) )
(04 Mar '10, 21:58) Inactive User ♦♦
There is a great story in Hinduism that talks about the goddess of wealth and the goddess of wisdom, and it said that to have wealth you must worship the goddess of wisdom, if you worship her the goddess of wealth gets jealous and blesses you with wealth.
I heard that story from Depak Chopra now for a story I am more familiar with the story of Solomon, God asked him what he wanted he could have anything, he chose wisdom. God said because he chose wisdom he will be blessed with wealth and wisdom.
The choice of wisdom brings both it seems no matter what your religion. So it is wiser to seek wisdom and in wisdom you will find wealth too.
There is a story of Apollonius of Tyana, a man came to him and said to him he wanted to show him his house, Apollonius said to him "this is quite impressive, how much did you spend on this house?" The boy said I paid 80 talens, Apollonius said "80 talens, wow how much did you spend on your education?" The young man said "10 talens" Apollonius said "who would be better equipped to own such a house someone of education or someone poorly educated? It seems to me you don't own your house your house owns you."
answered 04 Mar '10, 08:16
Seek ye first the Kingdom of Heaven and all else will be added unto you! I have found this to be true. I had to be patient though :)
(04 Mar '10, 21:59) Inactive User ♦♦
I forgot to say 'thank you' - Loved the Apollonius story.. now there is a man I would like to sit next to at a dinner party.
(04 Mar '10, 22:07) Inactive User ♦♦
Yes Lorraine being an Astarain too That was from one of my Astara books I am trying to remember the title i have it some place it has been years since I read it, the four great philosophers something like that.
(05 Mar '10, 07:18) Wade Casaldi
the book The Secret wisdom of the great initiates
(05 Mar '10, 08:31) Wade Casaldi
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In addition to the great answers already here, there is a process I have noticed:
answered 04 Mar '10, 08:35
That is the theory and sometimes happens. More often than not though the manifestor/creator becomes trapped in that which he manifested/created. They lose sight of the big picture and become victims of their own success. THAT is how, I was told, that we become trapped in our earthly creation. Reminds me of the axiom.. be careful what you wish for, you might get it. Guess that is the key to my apparent resistance to manifesting anything and everything we desire.
(04 Mar '10, 22:06) Inactive User ♦♦
Thanks for posting such a beautiful question. There are some wonderful answers here already. Maybe I should have not used G16 as my log in but The Worshipper . Since I was young I have believe in God and my truths about God has changed as I have become more opened to who I am. In the beginning I lifted my eyes toward heaven from which cometh mine help. Then there was a change, the Kingdom of God is within you. I saw manifestations in many areas of life, material, health, relationships..I then held a belief that is still has a place in my belief system. “Delight yourself in the Lord and Spirit will give you the desires of your heart.” Delight and desires are matters of the heart, not the thought life. It is beautiful that the current spiritual evolution is with controlling the thoughts.
Health and Wealth are symbols that represent the desire for happiness. Liam wrote in her answer about that something in us that opposes our inward quest.. Shaolin wisdom names this something the Dragon. As we go within the Dragon will try to keep you normal. Every thought has a controller either you or the Dragon and what he presents to you. One of the questions in Shaolin is: Who is feeding your Dragon ? I once spoke to a friend about winning the lottery. He responded you don’t want all that money someone might kidnap your kids. (Later I realized he fed my Dragon.)
answered 04 Mar '10, 18:57
G16 - thank you so much for posting your answer, I felt a ping to the heart chakra and my eyes are a tad moister than they would normally be. I can absolutely vouch for the 100% affectiveness of your 4 points. I must be a Law of Resonance person.
(04 Mar '10, 22:14) Inactive User ♦♦
Thank You G16 as well. Your 4 points are exactly, exactly, exactly what abundance and attraction is all about. Each of those 4 points are an attention on the "having", whereas, the Idea of attraction is actually an attention on the "Not having", therefore the need to attract.
(05 Mar '10, 01:54) The Traveller
Hello G16, i especially love the bit about "thought influences our bodies and our reality" ... have fun
(04 Jan '12, 07:21) blubird two
showing 2 of 3 show 1 more comments
i agree with this question. it makes alot of sense. if you do not know your self and know other why are you trying to change the outside? should you not know the inside first?
even jesus said it:
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
Luke 13:24 "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.
if you do not know your self what good will it give you to try to gain the world?
What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?
Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
"All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'"
Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.
So also with you, seek his treasure that is unfailing, that is enduring, where no moth comes to eat and no worm destroys."
They said to him, "Then shall we enter the (Father's) kingdom as babies?"
Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."
The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. During the days when you ate what is dead, you made it come alive. When you are in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one, you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?"
"It will not come by watching for it. It will not be said, 'Look, here!' or 'Look, there!' Rather, the Father's kingdom is spread out upon the earth, and people don't see it."
When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."
Jesus said to them, "No matter where you are you are to go to James the Just, for whose sake heaven and earth came into being."
Jesus said, "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is.
Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
If you become my disciples and pay attention to my sayings, these stones will serve you.
For there are five trees in Paradise for you; they do not change, summer or winter, and their leaves do not fall. Whoever knows them will not taste death."
He said to them, "It's like a mustard seed, the smallest of all seeds, but when it falls on prepared soil, it produces a large plant and becomes a shelter for birds of the sky."
But I have said that whoever among you becomes a child will recognize the (Father's) kingdom and will become greater than John."
If they say to you, 'Is it you?' say, 'We are its children, and we are the chosen of the living Father.'
If they ask you, 'What is the evidence of your Father in you?' say to them, 'It is motion and rest.'"
Split a piece of wood; I am there.
Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."
experience and enjoy.
answered 04 Jan '12, 04:13
Remember the verse of those that wash the outside of their cups but not the inside. Another refrence of the importance of what is with-in verses what is without.
(04 Jan '12, 09:57) Wade Casaldi
i have added it wade thank you.41. Jesus said, "Whoever has something in hand will be given more, and whoever has nothing will be deprived of even the little they have."
(04 Jan '12, 15:48) white tiger
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You aren't wracking up brickbats with me, I think it's a good question and food for thought. I am not sure why these subjects seem to go hand in hand, even in my own mind. I will be watching with you to see what others think.
Just want you all to know I am so buoyed by this thread - Life is Good! Thank you all and I do hope that other readers will join in and give their views on this topic.