I was speaking with a friend of mine the other day and she said something that struck me as quite interesting.

She was talking about a success-guru type of teacher she knew of, and she told me she refused to listen to what he was teaching because he was extremely overweight.

Her reasoning was that if his principles worked, he wouldn't allow himself to be in that bodily condition.

That was quite eye-opening to me because I have always had the attitude that it is more important to listen to what someone is saying rather than look at how they are implementing what they are saying.

That attitude of looking beyond the superficial persona of someone has seemingly always served me quite well. I've often come across amazing insights from people that others seem to ignore because of their outward appearance or lifestyle.

I guess I'm the kind of person that actually looks around for those awkward, uncomfortable, self-conscious people at parties who are standing by themselves since I've found they usually turn out to be so much more interesting to talk to...seriously :)

But, back to my friend, it struck me that her attitude was probably more in line with how the mass of people in this world judge each other.

In other words, if you say some way is a good way to live, you are expected to live it otherwise what you are saying will be considered valueless.

I'd be interested in hearing your own thoughts on this.

Is it right that you shouldn't bother with teachers who don't live their teachings?

asked 05 Apr '10, 18:40

Stingray's gravatar image


Thank you all for your thought-provoking answers

(11 Apr '10, 19:18) Stingray

well stingray; how can the student or disciple be a judge of that? if they judge out of the darkness of their ego are they not lost? then how can they be in truth? then if they do not understand the truth about their teacher how can they say that he is not doing what he say he is doing? is it not their own awareness and perception that is lacking?

(24 Aug '12, 22:31) white tiger

@Stingray - Another shift! I was JUST thinking about this. I was listening to a dharma teacher who mention a time frame that was inconsistent with what he said prior (on another tape, and I remembered) and it struck me. For a moment, I contemplated whether to continue listening (questioned his authenticity)...and then I allowed that thought to pass. I realized that I found more value in "what" he was saying, versus sticking to the inconsistency. It really wasn't that big of a deal.

(10 Oct '12, 17:28) figure8shape

(continued) Thank you. It's the small things that make the biggest differences in perception and overall quality of life. Thank you!

(10 Oct '12, 17:28) figure8shape

This thread may be interesting for folks to look over right now, so I'm giving it a boost.

(28 Mar '15, 09:52) Grace
showing 1 of 5 show 4 more comments

Does Esther Hicks lose credibility because she has a kidney stone? Because Jerry "croaked"?

If the teachings resonate with you, if they give you value, the vehicle through which they come is irrelevant.



answered 25 Aug '12, 14:41

Dollar%20Bill's gravatar image

Dollar Bill

@Dollar Bill this is very close to what I said on another similar question, you just reminded me of. Now I have to hunt that question out to see what it was and what I wrote. +1

(25 Aug '12, 16:46) Wade Casaldi

@Dollar Bill Bill here is my answer. It is very much like yours expressing that same point. +1 for you.

(25 Aug '12, 21:35) Wade Casaldi

@Wade Casaldi - read your answer in your link. We are on the same page. It is the message that is what matters. And the same mailman can bring junk mail or worthwhile mail. It is up to us to accept or reject.

(17 Sep '12, 04:16) Dollar Bill
showing 2 of 3 show 1 more comments

Hi stingray, I whole heartedly agree with you.

Aren't diamonds found in ugly looking rocks. Yet they carry within itself the beauty of its prize. Just as you said, "I guess I'm the kind of person that actually looks around for those awkward, uncomfortable, self-conscious people at parties who are standing by themselves since I've found they usually turn out to be so much more interesting to talk to...seriously :)" People on the average miss out because they look on the outside appearance.

Sometimes wisdom does come put of fools. Do you reject the wisdom because of the source it came from. It's like a man who found a gold ring in a garbage can. Was he to ignore the ring because of the place where he had found it?

A good many people lose out because of the source the information is coming from.

If the teacher said something worthy to help someone, the hearer should at least look into the information being given. If there is a solid knowledge foundation, then you should heed to its knowledge/wisdom.

For myself, no matter where teachings are coming from, I listen to all that people have to say. Then it is my responsibility to check out the information and deal accordingly.


answered 05 Apr '10, 21:07

Frank%201's gravatar image

Frank 1

It all depends if he is teaching about money success and is fat, no problem, if on the other hand he is teaching about use his formula and you will lose weight like crazy, then in that case there is a problem! lol

He could worm out of it saying "I am using it too so we can all lose weight together!" But he would get much better results waiting until he looks good then come on and say something like "people used to call me tubby but not anymore!"


answered 06 Apr '10, 07:23

Wade%20Casaldi's gravatar image

Wade Casaldi

Yes I believe every individual is superior to me at something.So it serves me better not to judge. There is aways something to be learned from another.

I remember my brother telling me about a very talented guitarist who, when on tour with this well-known band would always seek out a guitar lesson from a tutor in any city they happened to be in. Some of these tutors were mediocre and maybe did not even play professionally. But he always seen some one small thing in their playing, some technique or way of doing something that they excelled at and he could utilise, learn from and use for himself.

I was just reading the Bashar book, QUEST FOR TRUTH and came across something from him that might be relevant here.

"But do remember that every individual your interact with serves you best at that moment. Therefore by the fundamental defination of soul-mate, every individual you interact with at any particular moment is for that moment your soul-mate, because they serve you best at that moment".


answered 24 Aug '12, 21:39

Satori's gravatar image


edited 24 Aug '12, 21:40

@Satori- Good stuff here. Because I know you're reading Bashar atm, do you know of anything he promotes in terms of relationships/romance/love/soul mates/ attracting love? I can only find one video on youtube that is too general on relationships to serve me. Cheers champion

(24 Aug '12, 21:51) Nikulas

@Nikulas-Thanks, yes Nikulas, I think there is some articles on relationships in the book but im not that far on yet.Ill get back to you on that. Both Bashars books are available for free through an reading app called SCRIBH....Have you read this?? http://www.inwardquest.com/questions/58227/what-do-you-do-when-your-soulmate-doesnt-reply-to-your-messages/58270

(24 Aug '12, 22:11) Satori

@Satori, so your brother is a wise man, too. What a great way to become all he could possibly be. Loved your answer. There is always something to learn, and I am so glad of that. I never feel so alive as when I'm learning, and I will remember that this can come to me from literally anywhere.

(25 Aug '12, 01:03) Grace

@Grace- Thanks Grace, and well said:)

(25 Aug '12, 11:15) Satori
showing 1 of 4 show 3 more comments

What an interesting question, most especially because it comes from my own teacher!

When I first spotted this question and all the answers, I was in agreement with the general thought that it is the message, not the messenger, that is of any real consequence. Much the same as in our discussions recently about channeling. All sounds fine to me....

However, if I am to be perfectly honest.... no. No. If I were to somehow find that my own guru, your very self, @Stingray, lived a horrid and stifling life of sadness, poverty, loneliness, sickness, misery and want, I would most definately feel differently about the things that I have learned from you.

I suppose it would have a lot to do with context, as others have said. I look to you and the other Wise Ones here because you know the path I'm on, having walked it yourselves. How could I see you as a becon of light, if you were wondering around in the dark? It doesn't mean I think you have to be perfect. It is just that it is so encouraging to see the result of all this effort in your strength and happiness.

Yet again, I learn a lot from people here who are learning this stuff right along side me, and it is so personal in the application because of the shared experience, I love that.

So I guess that puts my answer firmly... on the fence. :) Still, interesting question.

EDIT 03/28/15

The old link to a guru cartoon was broken, but I think this one is good too. ;)

alt text



answered 24 Aug '12, 19:21

Grace's gravatar image


edited 28 Mar '15, 12:19

@Grace - An interesting (and honest) viewpoint. I'm not sure at what point I've gone from being some guy answering questions on an internet forum to being a guru...but I'm really not...I'm just a guy answering questions on an internet forum :) Yes, I live a life where I'm very happy being me - and there's no-one else I'd rather be. But, as I've said many times, there's no great secret to this other than finding reasons to think happy thoughts. No guru-level thinking required for that :)

(24 Aug '12, 20:47) Stingray

@Stingray- I have to say ditto to @Grace...You are an inspiration to me, a man who has come from battling many things over in his mind for many years, to someone who is very, very happy with who they are and their own life. When I hear stories of you being able to jolt people with electiricty accidentally when you shake their hand, or how you had a seemingly fairytale romance meeting your wife through LOA, or how I get the impression there is a school of ghosts and 'beings' who follow...

(24 Aug '12, 21:25) Nikulas

...you around everywhere you go, or how you've got this glowing skin thing I was fanatical about, how can I not feel even more pumped to try all the things you have posted- out of charity- for answering anothers question? So yes, I want to follow teachings from a teacher who is walking the talk. And what's funny is that if I'm ever going to even glimpse you in real life, I'll actually have to be in such high vibration to have that even possible. Now that's sufficient proof. U rock sir <3

(24 Aug '12, 21:29) Nikulas

@Stingray, sorry. I did know that you were likely to feel an intense dislike for any recognition, but you didn't see all of the appreciative statements I deleted before posting, to spare those feelings. ;) Ironically, that humility is just another one of the characteristics we love about you.

As you remarked, I had determined for the sake of authentic discussion to be very honest, even at the risk of raising your ire. Now, I will promise not to say anything mushy about you for a month. :D

(24 Aug '12, 22:51) Grace

But the real question is Does @Stingray drive a Stingray ? ;)

(26 Aug '12, 01:35) ursixx

@Grace - Very funny cartoon :)

(18 Oct '12, 19:00) Stingray

"Guru" ... Perhaps visionary would be a more apt title @Grace

(13 Oct '21, 15:23) ele
showing 2 of 7 show 5 more comments

I guess if a teacher is not living by the principles of their own teachings, it leaves one questioning the validity of those teachings - if the teacher does not have the faith in them to put them into practice in their own life.

I get what you're saying about looking beyond the superficial personna of a person or not judging a book by it's cover. However I think when it comes to a teacher we will have more faith in one who practices what he preaches.


answered 05 Apr '10, 21:55

Michaela's gravatar image


Great point! I believe you can learn something from everyone. What's the old saying, "We teach what we need to learn most?"

Many people know and can teach great principles, but they struggle with implementing them. And others easily practice the principles and get results, but they can't explain how worth beans.

So I believe you take what's being said, mull it around, practice it, and if it resonates, use it.

As you say, would you throw away a gold ring if you found it in the garbage? I think most people would pounce on it and keep it.


answered 06 Apr '10, 01:11

Linda-Ann%20Stewart's gravatar image

Linda-Ann Stewart

Yes those old sayings are usually more true than false :))

(13 Oct '21, 14:05) ele

I think that what makes for a 'great' teacher is one who lives their preach because they would have experienced first hand the knowledge that they're wanting to pass on. On the other hand, as a student of life, I think that we can learn something from everyone.


answered 06 Apr '10, 09:38

Brian's gravatar image


I was once asked. Do you wish to live an enlightened existence and utilize the teachings of Treb? Or do u only honer your gift and try to use it as it is what u where given?

This question haunted me for some time.

This is somthing I needed to chat about. I face same issues with others for me, Overweight, sometimes highly imbalanced. and also my life is far from perfect, but when i channel , in fact even when i do not, i connect to GREAT wisdom, so of the greatest i have heard, and this is hard to explain. I will tell everyone I am not perfect, but this means i am human, i would much rather connect to someone who is aware of their own self faults and all than anyone who thinks they are perfect.. Not only that, people have criticized Abraham/Eater because her husband had attracted cancer or somthing to this effect.


and here is my response.

I do get what you mean. I will not try to compare myself to ester hicks, lololol, but I do channel. And many many People look up to me because I channel a great and intelligent entity. They look to me for advice and life knowledge, which i can help them in some ways,. But there is a truth to this as well. I am human and faulted, and even if people look at me as a guru or perfect, i am FARRRRRRRRRR from it ! lololo. just remember that even though she has the great knowledge, she wont always a apply it! and when we have this kind of knowledge , it is almost harder to apply it because most come to us to revive it. love and light 2 u. it is only a semi perfect existence for most and if the info helps u be more perfect, well it is not a scam

so my point is ( just as I tell people who have issues with treb or believing his validity or his truthfulness of who he is ) don't worship the messenger... only the message. and don't praise that. Just apply it and u will not need judge the fat guru lol.

love,light(wisdom),awareness. 3 keys to happy life.



answered 03 Nov '12, 15:00

TReb%20Bor%20yit-NE's gravatar image

TReb Bor yit-NE

edited 03 Nov '12, 15:03

From my own experience, after I wrote a book about my life which is a very honest and deep exploration of my past, I decided to let my friends and family read it so they know what are now my beliefs about life and how they've changed over the years. If you're interested, you can download it for free from here http://www.warriorinyou.com/products.htm

So anyway I talk there a lot about All That Is, vibrational frequencies, your Higher Self, Ascended Masters and so forth. It is a mixture of "regular" life with an esoteric and spiritual beliefs and perspectives.

So I came to the place in my life that I am now after listening to hundreds and hundreds of people talking about the same things in different ways. You can say I was "soaking up" with information and wasn't even consciously aware of it.

For example I used to watch some kind of a seminar for 10 hours straight and the only thing I could remember after it was over, was only one word or one sentence. Well more often than not this one word and one sentence were the things that changed my life completely. I took bits and pieces of information from so many people that I couldn't tell you who inspired me the most.

Sure I've got some beings that message resonates with me the most and I am aware of the impact they made on me, but still I learn everyday from EVERYONE I meet. The difference is how honest and how free of social conditioning people are when it comes to the impact of their "teachings".

So I have a dear friend whom I know for more then 4 years. He is a very "strong" person, which means he has a very strict set of beliefs about life and what will happen after death. He believes that there is nothing after death; that there is a void and emptiness and that's what he believes is true for him. What that belief implies for him is that the life that he has now is unique and can end any minute, so what his life goal is too live his life to the fullest, because he believes after it there will be nothing left.

So my beliefs are quite different. I believe we are multidimensional beings made of light and that we choose beforehand where and when we are going to be born to play out a specific theme in our life. I also believe that we are dualistic in nature - we have an Ego which role is to know how things are happening and how they have happened, and also a Higher Self which role is to know how things are going to happen. The language of the Higher Self is excitement, meaning if you follow your excitement to the best of your ability at any given moment you will fulfill your greatest purpose in life and your life will become an ecstatic explosion of bliss and passion.

So me and my friend have completely different views of the world, right? Yes we do, but that doesn't stop us from living the same way - passionately and to the fullest.

You see it doesn't matter whose teachings you listen too. It doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong. The thing is you can take the most dastardly person that has ever walked the Earth and gather insights that will promote your life in a positive way. That's what I believe the holocaust and World Wars were about - to show people what we DON'T want to experience anymore and by that bring a complete opposite of these actions.

So I personally "walk the talk". I don't just say things and then go on and do the opposites. Of course I have many challenges along the way, but I know they are lessons for me to learn and that they will never stop coming, because the reason for life is to grow, and possibilities of growth are endless and Infinite.

So I use a specific analogy when it comes to what path you should choose next. I see life as a journey on a mountain - everyone takes a different route to get there, but we all meet each other on the top.

So listen to your heart what things you want to incorporate into your life and which don't resonate with you and make the choices you want. Remember though, that every choice has consequences and the pace and speed of your development will be based on how honest you are willing to be about your life. The emotions of




can help you on your journey to "clear the channel" and to communicate with your Higher Self easily and effortlessly, so that one day you wake up and you will be free.


answered 06 Apr '10, 09:57

wildlife's gravatar image


In your example scenario, I think the guru would have credibility unless you were going to him for weight-loss advice. Not following the guru because he is overweight is a value judgement, not an assessment of his spiritual skills. Maybe the guru is OK with his body the way it is.

Bashar would be considered overweight by most modern medical standards. So would Esther Hicks.


answered 06 Apr '10, 15:23

Vesuvius's gravatar image


We need to remember that none of us are perfect. I consider myself to be a person of strong spritual values and principles but sometime I cannot live up to my own standards. What is important is that we do not judge each other so harshly and that we be reminded of the areas in which we fall short. If we are looking for perfect leadership then we will be dissapointed everytime. However this does not mean that we should find excuses and let people off the hook. Maybe the "guru" Stingray made mention of was not aware of how he was being perceived or maybe his weight was not a problem for him. The main point is to not judge but try to understand.


answered 06 Apr '10, 19:59

Drham's gravatar image


I would have answered differently at different times. Right now, the way I see it is that as a teacher type person myself, I learn things as I go and want to share the good stuff. So we learn things by doing, trial and error, making mistakes. So one might make mistakes and learn from it, and share what they learn while they apply it. So by looking at them, they do not appear to be the poster model for their teaching, but they are themselves a work in progress.

For example, we are walking along and find a man stuck in a hole. We think him a fool for being stuck in a hole and dismiss his teachings on how to not get stuck in a hole. If we look at him and realize that he might have some wisdom on this subject, we might learn how to prevent the same fate. We need to use discernment to evaluate the advice, not judgement to dismiss the teacher.

If you look at parents raising their children, you see people teaching their kids. Some kids are able to learn from their parents' mistakes and some kids need to learn for themselves, and some parents haven't learned, so the kids have to evaluate the lessons and decide if their parents are right on this or not. Parents can give good advice without following it themselves. That doesn't make it bad advice.


answered 16 Sep '12, 13:40

Fairy%20Princess's gravatar image

Fairy Princess

Well if he doesn't care about is weight and love himself and didn't try to lose weight them it wasn't a failure to success, right? So, his teachings for success are not proven wrong.

If he uses his teachings for his actual goals and actually get SUCCESS then that is evidence for his teachings.

Appreciate, feel fulfilled and you vibe will bring more - Law of Attraction.


answered 05 Apr '15, 18:01

arpgme's gravatar image


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