I am trying to find the reason for this obsession with Thought manifesting reality obsession.
Scientific experiments have been the litmus test for facts. By very closely, without bias consistently and throughly analyzing data they have given us explanations of how things work. These have given rise to technologies and processes that our ancestors could never have dreamed(pun intended) of.
I feel there is an almost delusional-obsession bordering of schizophrenia about Thinking affecting reality. There is a very comprehensive literature about Magical Thinking for those that are open minded.
How many scientific experiments have proven decisively that thinking impacts reality. If it does, why do powerful people, companies and countries ignore this completely. Don't you think they want in on the action to controlling the world around them?
Fact is and this is proven by everything you do.
3."Actions are the most robust, and only credible, provable impactors of reality."
If you want to be as good as Roger Federer - Fact is sorry most probably you won't be able to if you've crossed a certain age. BUT you can do it. You have to have talent + Learnt the game from a certain age(while your brain was soaking in information) + You have to have put in consistent practice(take action) and work your arse off.
These are things that can be replicated consistently across individuals -- you probably wont be as good as Roger, but you'll be a pretty good tennis player if you put in those kind of efforts.
Point is -- actions have consistently shown their impact on reality.
Why is thought being sought as a means to impact reality?
Is it a peculiar human delusion?
As far as I have seen the world - whatever the universe wants you to do it imposes it on you - It will impose the exact same things on everyone else irrespective of who they are or weather they are living or dead. Example : Gravity, Friction, Temprature, Object density -- other than that as far as i know it also doesn't have any punishments or rewards it just has consequences.
Enlighten me on the power of magical thinking and reality manifestation without doing any work. I am interested in making truckloads of money.
asked 23 Jun '10, 21:27
Barry Allen ♦♦
showing 0 of 8 show 8 more comments
While it is true that actions can produce results, ideas are the leverage that produce exceptional results. Hard work is not enough; you must also have exceptional ideas. You can work very hard performing senseless labor and accomplish nothing, or your can work smart with an exceptional idea and accomplish exceptional things.
If you want to make truckloads of money, you will not do it by doing the same things that everyone else is doing. Rather, you will most likely make that money by finding a new twist on an old idea, or by providing a product or service in a way that others are either unable or unwilling to do. And everyone around you will tell you that you're wrong.
In other words, you will have an idea. It all starts in the mind. It follows that anything you can do that will sharpen your mind will improve your results.
I can see how someone new to the Law of Attraction might see it as magical thinking. This is due, in part, to people who explain the LOA in a way that makes it look like magic. But see this answer for a discussion about how we have all become a little lazy about describing the LOA.
There's nothing magical about the LOA at all. Your mind is a perceptual filter. When you give it a goal, your mind will begin paying attention to those things that will help you achieve that goal, and will ignore those things that do not assist in the achievement of that goal. Your mind will also begin making connections between seemingly unrelated things to help you towards your goal. This process can seem miraculous, because a lot of it happens at the unconscious level. But it is the way the mind works.
When people say that "you create your world," what they mean is, "you choose what you focus on." Your world, I presume, includes the world of the oyster fishermen in the gulf, whose livelihood is being profoundly affected by the worst oil spill in history? Does it include the world of general McCrystal, recently relieved of his command due to some unfortunate words he said to a Rolling Stone reporter? You might know about these things, but they are not a part of your personal world unless you are giving them your personal attention.
You may value action, but nothing happens without the mind. The typical business owner gave up digging ditches a long time ago, because he understood the power of powerful ideas. Lance Armstrong is successful, not just because he works hard, but because he has intimate knowledge of bicycle racing, a driving desire to succeed, and unshakable belief that he can.
We value a wide range of opinions on this board, and we welcome yours. But we also value civility. Try to have an open mind about this, and you will see that what we call the Law of Attraction you simply call imagination and mental discipline.
answered 24 Jun '10, 15:17
Yes, I am aware of the wikipedia article. What's your point? Did you even read my answer? And how are you able to downvote with only one rep? Do you have a sock puppet account?
(24 Jun '10, 17:50) Vesuvius
Vesuvius, we've checked into this and the downvote was genuine.
(24 Jun '10, 18:25) Barry Allen ♦♦
(24 Jun '10, 19:03) Vesuvius
Sure, I agree with you on using your mind as a filter and a tool to reach your goal. I think of it as falling in love with your goal and having a deep desire to achieve it -- the mind will then automatically start giving you solutions and connections that you never imagined before. Thats very beautiful and essential - but the follow up and implementation of those ideas is also equally important.
(24 Jun '10, 19:18) xyz
Why would anyone down vote this answer? I just corrected that :-) Surely, simply ignoring and not up voting is more helpful, no?
(25 Jun '10, 04:11) Eddie
I up voted the question...and I up voted Vesuvius AND awarded him 1 point for his answer. @Vesuvius you are totally spot on. `ss
(28 Jan '12, 10:07) streetsanto
showing 3 of 7 show 4 more comments
No-one is forcing you to read what is written on this website.
If it upsets you, then I suggest you go read something else instead that is more in harmony with what you currently believe.
If you genuinely want to learn, then can you start by reading through the many questions and answers that are already here.
Reading through the questions on manifesting and the questions on The Law of Attraction might be a good place to begin.
answered 24 Jun '10, 06:15
Barry Allen ♦♦
This website has the potential to change the lives of all people involved for the positive. Rather it just promotes self-delusion and mental masturbation. The mental resources of all these intelligent people going to waste is very sad. They can do so much better if they were more objective.
(24 Jun '10, 06:27) xyz
I have health, wealth and happiness, and much else besides, through applying the principles discussed on this website. But you're right though...I could still probably do much better. Thanks for pointing that out :)
(24 Jun '10, 07:10) Stingray
When we react and get defensive it is usually a sign that we are beginning to feel threatened or insecure about our current beliefs so out of fear we will often argue our viewpoint or show our need to be right. See my answer to this question - http://www.inwardquest.com/questions/6460/why-do-you-need-to-be-right.
When we are confident in our beliefs , we don't need to try to prove that we are right but will quite willing give advice when it is sought. The fact that you are here questioning and vehemently demonstrating your viewpoint may be an indication that there is a little part of you that is not so sure.
"Why is thought being sought as a means to impact reality? Is it just out of laziness" - For me mental, inner work has been the hardest work I've ever undertaken and also the most rewarding and is most definitely not for the lazy.
answered 24 Jun '10, 11:31
I totally understand doing mental innerwork and i feel that's important. My issue is with people that think that it ends at that. I think that undervalues Hardwork, Self Discipline, Persistence. I'm more of a Lance-Armstrong-Philosophy-of-work kind of a guy - Love your work, give everything to it - work and persist real hard - you will see results. I think preaching "Just Visualize and the universe will manifest it." theory is just misleading people, wasting their time and thus pretty darn mean.
(24 Jun '10, 13:17) xyz
When you've been conditioned to believe that hard work is the only way to get results, that's the way you're going to adopt until you become aware that there may be another possibility and adopt an attitude of open -mindedness in exploring that. There's no right or wrong, whatever works best for your current state of awareness will resonate with you. I don't think anyone is inferring that our human experience should not entail taking action, but when that action comes from an inspired state of positive thinking, it will be much more beneficial than if it was performed from a negative state.
(24 Jun '10, 16:02) Michaela
You love hard work and believe it's necessary. Fantastic, that's your belief system in action. One of any number of arbitrary beliefs that you're free to choose and believe in. Hard work has never been part of my life nor will it ever be. That's my choice. Cheers 8-)
(24 Jun '10, 17:16) Eddie
@Michaela - You know really, I get your point of imagining something and then working towards it. My point is this -- that first inspiration gives you a push in the right direction but inspiration is fleeting and not something that can be summoned upon by will(all the time - consistently) -- eg. while you're coding a game that needs 8 hours a day 40 days straight of coding then you'll be done. For this you need more things than imagination -- Imagination will give you the booster but then you need to have Focus so you can sit and not do anything else in those 8 hours.(contd...)
(24 Jun '10, 19:00) xyz
You need dedication so you stick to your goal consistently for those 40 days. You need the ability to deffer instant gratification and have a para-telec approach so that fleeting instant pleasures don't distract you. You need smart goal management so you keep track of things you are achieving and remain motivated to complete the goal even though it may be difficult. @Eddie - I am not a fan of hard work per se but I am a fan of being more stronger and effective I love the power that hard work offers to me on a personal level - not many people can do it and not many do it(on their own).
(24 Jun '10, 19:07) xyz
Its a great edge over competition. And i really don't mean hard work in the sense that you do repetitive work. Hard work could also be just thinking about a problem, solving it in your head -- doing creative sketches -- It basically is not being shy or scared to do the ugly and difficult work.
(24 Jun '10, 19:09) xyz
gave you a +1 michaela positive over negative. and xyz must be working alone not to bad but with other people i am not so sure because from my experience urgency of doing. equal stress negativity lack of attention and accident. and no one like to have a boss or a client pushing him to do is job faster faster faster.
(28 Jan '12, 03:55) white tiger
showing 2 of 7 show 5 more comments
great question lots of thoughts and opinions.
1st thing that came to my mind after reading was something an old man said to me when I was a teenager doing the dirty work at my fathers butcher shop he said "Work smart not hard". The label hard it's what makes it hard not the work itself.Lance Johnson work is not hard it makes him happy, hard work isn't that when you think smart about it.
Sometimes I find answer here and other times they find me
I have to smile here :)
This Abraham qoute was in my mail as I was on this answer:
It seems easy enough,it's not lazy ,it's sane
answered 26 Jun '10, 08:28
hard work ceases to be hard when you take the hard out of it. Reminds me of a zen story that talks about a monk that moved rocks. He then gets enlightenment. He still does his job and moves rocks, but, now there is a difference. First he used to push the rocks and they pushed back. Now he works with the rocks and they work with him. That was the jist of it. How is this approach, rather than motivate yourself and then depend on that motivation for action to follow it.What if you could decide for yourself chart-out a course of action and attack the goal irrespective of what your mood-emotion is.
(26 Jun '10, 09:23) xyz
@ursixx. Hello my friend. I read the first sentence of your answer, but noticed you did not vote the question up? In general, I'm wondering what criteria is needed for members to vote questions and answers up? If I feel that any question is important enough for me to answer, I vote it up :-)
(26 Jun '10, 12:26) Eddie
I read your answer and Abraham's quote, then 5 mins later I read the Abraham daily quote and it's the same one :-) LOA in action, sure! The great thing is that I'm glad I read it again as it makes perfect sense. Thank you :-)
(26 Jun '10, 12:33) Eddie
umm to remember to vote them up is the criteria that I use
(26 Jun '10, 23:14) ursixx
"What if you could decide for yourself chart-out a course of action and attack the goal irrespective of what your mood-emotion is" I'm more of a float towards the goal than attack. Everyday is a winding road I get a little bit closer Everyday is a faded sign I get a little bit closer to feeling fine Thanks Shreryl http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khrx-zrG460
(26 Jun '10, 23:27) ursixx
agree smart not hard. the math equal the work the work equal not much.
(28 Jan '12, 03:59) white tiger
Although I'm making a comment on an answer that was back in Jun 2010, did XYZ actually talk about enlightenment??????
How can you even consider such scientifically un-proven concepts?
(28 Jan '12, 10:49) The Traveller
no traveller i don't think he said enlightement.is balence is in the hard way emergency of doing: that is not harmony it brings stress and negativity lack of attention and accident. also negativity disturb harmony so the cooperation is lacking.
(28 Jan '12, 19:09) white tiger
showing 2 of 8 show 6 more comments
Richard Bach in one of his books said "argue your limitations and they are yours". If you do not want to believe it, it is ok but some us believe and we are reaping the benefits. The one question to ask yourself is "Are you happy?"
answered 23 Jun '10, 23:26
@Drham - using Richard Bach reasoning ... "argue your wishes and they are yours" :)
(28 Jan '12, 02:56) blubird two
Why waste your valuable time with us dellusional lot? To each his own and this works for us, it doesnt for you and that's OK.
answered 24 Jun '10, 10:34
I Think Therefore I Am
I guess our purposes are the same but I've taken a more practical, show-me-consistent-results, hard-work, real-world, solve-your -problems, work-towards-your-goals approach whereas your's is a more metaphysical, spiritual approach. To each his own.
(24 Jun '10, 13:32) xyz
Thinking, visualizing and wishing helps me to form and hone my ideas, plan out my actions and practice them mentally over and over. Then this "mental practicing" of what I want, changes my actions and behavior on the conscious and subconscious level. My actions, plans, thoughts, and behavior change my outcomes. It's not mysterious and it's not relying purely upon thought.
And positive thinking helps me to see the bright side, feel better and keep going with things and get good cooperation from others.
I don't think most people here believe they can sweep up the oil spill and no one has claimed they can do so. This is rather more about personal development.
answered 24 Jun '10, 17:34
It seems to me that there's a lot of disagreement between the ideas of Dmin and many in this community. Rather than perpetuate that, I wonder if we can at least agree on one point that is relevant to everyone in this community and indeed, everyone on the planet.
Do you agree that you exist?
Can you confirm this with a simple comment of yes?
Or must you elaborate in some way in order to have the final say?
Lets start from a place of agreement and take it from there...
answered 25 Jun '10, 04:21
:) pretty amusing. Yes I exist.
(25 Jun '10, 05:44) xyz
Cool, we’re in agreement that each of us exists 8-) Can we also agree to co-exist?
(26 Jun '10, 01:26) Eddie
lol! sure brother.
(26 Jun '10, 04:59) xyz
Fantastic, thank you existing and for allowing me to exist :-) Can we co-operate?
(26 Jun '10, 12:08) Eddie
very good eddie you have seen that co-operation was lacking.
(28 Jan '12, 19:16) white tiger
showing 2 of 5 show 3 more comments
I like this question, i understand why youve asked it ( i think ) and i do see your point. Physical action and substance DOES effect physical things . Physical does effect physical, play a game of snooker or pool and youll see the results.
I can, and will now only comment on this sits as to things and ideas that ive actually obtained results from. I recently had a chronic case of Ciatica, i did the physical stuff, paid quite a bit of money, which i will admit i earned from the sweat of my brow (physical ) and saw a specialist. Result ? less money in my bank, still a bad back, in fact he made it worse.
I then used a more holistic thinking appoach, had a realisation that matter and so called reality were entirely plastic and frankly had no more substance to them than an idea or a dream. Next day the thing vanished.After years it went.
Years before this something else happened to me, something i had worked physically for for 20 years or so. I applied methods entirely non physical and obtained a results. A results that is entirely provable and what most would refer to as SOLID.
I will agree that ive also done things physically and obtained great results, i really do get you on that one, but when my physical efforts have failed me, my thinking has come to the rescue.
It works, and thats why i have a fascination for it. If it didnt produce tangible results im the kind of greedy shallow guy that would loose interest in it immediately. Im money orientated, very fond of the physical things of this reality and have found that my thinking, and the result its had on my CONSCIOUSNESS has produced stuff. Its not made me a better or worse guy, but its yielded things i can enjoy,live in ,drive and enjoy time with.....so why not be a little obsessed? M
answered 31 Oct '12, 07:42
Thought Manifests Reality. Yes or No.
If yes, then that very thought will become your reality if you accept and allow it. If you do not accept it, then what ever else you believe (hardwork?) will be your reality, proving that thought manifests reality.
If no, then it does not matter what you think, the reality is out there and the only way to impact it is by taking action, no matter what the energy or motivation (thought) behind that action.
To answer this question, we need to examine what is reality ? Is it subjective or objective ? Is it inside or outside ?
Next we need to examine, what is thought. Is it just an electro-chemical movement of nerve impulses in the brain or is thought a force by itself ? What if there was a finer world where thoughts were objects by them-self and your thinking a particular thought meant you are only tuning into that particular frequency of thought form object ? Then your dwelling on that thought means feeding it so that it becomes stronger and has already manifested in your mental reality, so that it becomes possible for it to manifest in your physical reality.
Every action that you do has a thought behind it. So even if you are working hard physically, you are actually applying the same principle of using thought power, only unconsciously. More important than doing, is the energy behind that doing, the intention and vibration that accompanies the action has an effect on the outcome of that action. Is that just a belief, just something that is good to hear and read about like a fairy tale, or is it the truth ? Only you can tell by experiencing it. Each person is free to create and manifest their own truth, this would prove that thought manifests reality.
About thinking away oilspills, could it be that the spills are created because of the collective negative thoughts and greed of humanity as a whole ? It may help to think positively to prevent such disasters ... About thinking away a drop of water from your coffee cup, I agree you have a point there. Its much more effective to physically empty the cup than to mentally argue away the drop when its clearly there in plain sight !
answered 30 Jan '12, 08:31
Why is there an obsession with the idea of thought manifesting reality?
Because it feels good to be empowered with a belief that you can create your own reality. People like to eat what tastes good, they like to hear what sounds good, they like to think what feels good.
Maybe that is the answer you are looking for.
(30 Jan '12, 12:47) DesirelessAbundance
"Next we need to examine, what is thought. Is it just an electro-chemical movement of nerve impulses in the brain?" Important point. If thoughts do not manifest reality, then reality must be the one manifesting thoughts. Which means our very thoughts and actions are enslaved to electro-magnetic currents that have a life of their own, and free will, including the free will to "work hard", is merely an illusion.
(20 Feb '13, 19:31) flowsurfer
Do we attract thoughts or generate thought Abraham Hicks ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGD0X3xPzNM
(20 Feb '13, 22:42) Starlight
showing 2 of 3 show 1 more comments
(Sorry had to answer on my own question but it was too long for comments..)
When someone talks of a scientific approach, it means - acknowledgment of the fact that we are human and can make mistakes - we are human and that our minds may play games with us if we didn't know better. As individuals we may make mistakes but collectively with the right approach - we can negate those. It is the quest for truth its a quest for truth in the most honest way possible -- It assumes nothing, is always open for correction, is always willing to give and share its knowledge.
I would love to buy your arguments on these things but your point has the same weight as the existence of lord zenu in $cientology or god Ra of the Egyptians.
Point is, Talk is cheap. Self delusion is very easy.
To answer Drham, Yes, I am very happy, and this is one more bone i have to pick. Happiness is not a universal purpose of life for everyone. Its an emotion - leave it at that. Live your life - solve your problems, work towards your goals not on one singular emotion. I think happiness is over-estimated and given more value than it deserves. Its a by product of living right. Its like profits in a business, You do a transaction right you will get profits. Profits are good but if you only want to extract the profits out of your client without doing anything else -- its called looting.
As far as reaping benefits is concerned I'll be only convinced when some guy can definitively predict consistently that he is going to impact reality with his thoughts only and then go about doing it. I have a small list you can start with.
1.He can start with moving the share prices in the stock market. 2.The bullion prices 3.World events 4.Fix oil spills by wishing them away - You can probably start with a single drop in a coffee cup filled with water for practice. If you can wish that away, I would suggest going to bigger things.
If you cant consistently and over a wide range of people prove this "Truth" of manifestation. Then it holds equal weight as a paranoid thinking the aliens are going to get him tomorrow.
What happens is, it's all in his head --
You think he'll rig it in his own favor?! you bet his mind will, and he himself probably won't have a clue. That's the beauty of self deception.
If any day I had to choose sad reality vs happy-lala-land-fantasy I would choose reality, cause then I have the power to accept things as they are and improve it so they are actually better. Rather than just fixing stuff in my head, wishing and dreaming about things getting better.
The whole 'thought-reality' approach seems to me as :
I love the fact that you guys have this community here that works towards personal growth -- but I would love to see more of
I am not new to this concept, I've been there, done that and come to this conclusion.
(thoughts) -> (actions) -> (reality impacted)
Rather than working on thoughts to control your behavior - which is effective only some of the time. Control your behavior directly and impact reality you will be much more effective.
(actions) -> (reality impacted)
answered 24 Jun '10, 06:18
Barry Allen ♦♦
I've warned you previously about offensive language. Next time we will suspend/delete your account and any future accounts you set up.
(24 Jun '10, 07:37) Barry Allen ♦♦
Just so you know, I'm giving you the upvote here. I think you are sincere in what you believe to be true, and that's worth acknowledging in my view even when I don't agree with your conclusions :)
(24 Jun '10, 19:32) Stingray
appreciate it :)
(24 Jun '10, 20:03) xyz
Your views remind me of the pseudo skeptic Michael Brant Shermer. If anyone here wants to see skepticism taken to the extent of absurdity, they should familiarize themselves with this man’s work. It’s also a great way to test if you are confident of your own knowledge and experiences.
(01 Jul '10, 17:56) The Traveller
I don't know about extreme skepticism. I do know how to not get conned into make-believe, wishy-washy theories that neither stand the test of unbiased testing or have a sound scientific foundation.
(03 Jul '10, 10:50) xyz
i agree on finding truth first truth know your self truth#2 know other #3 see how it all fits together. urgency of doing imply lack of attention butching the job and causing stress and accident.
(28 Jan '12, 03:45) white tiger
Happiness is given more value than it deserves! Wow.. Ive got to say thats the first time ive actually seen that phrase on this site. Ive heard people say that about money, sex ,religion but never about happiness. Honestly XYZ ask yourself this question, if you have kids or could imagine yourself in a position to have them, what would be the one wish you would have for them? Frankly my first would be happiness/Joy. Whats the point of a joyless existence?
(31 Oct '12, 09:02) Monty Riviera
@Monty Riviera What he meant is simply that happiness is a natural result of living well and too much focus in placed on the effect and not enough on the cause that leads to that effect.
(20 Feb '13, 19:27) flowsurfer
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Considering the level of response and interest in this question, it gets my vote :-)
well xyz it is not about magical thinking you said it your self though have effect on the universe it is proven. but i agree on you that money being popular and other ego stuff are a waste of the potential we have to create something to solve all the problem on earth that exist today. if those scientist political men etc. etc. are not able to solve those things why are we paying them or voting for them?
you want to see something simple for 5 year across from a bridge they put a red light on the higway each day it cause traffic for 3 hour and pollution. in 5 years they did not wake up and build another access and remove the red light. if i am able to see that and think about it. how come they do not see that? they are paid to solve those problem.
so you see we all see things that do not work we are able to find solution and apply the best solution for every one sake. is it that the system is to big and they are not able to follow everything and find solution for problem? or they just don't care? they are making days with out car for the pollution and cause traffic and pollution. also i have seen a scientific study on tv about pollution and they say that even if you would stop all car on the planet for 1 year it would not change
annything because the big part of pollution is industry then why are they trying to make people guilty? should they not find answer for the root of the problem. or is it only about the $.
@white tiger - try a bit of music "therapy"
have fun :)
thanks for the music blubird. it is true we are not apart we come all from the same source we all made the choice to experience this world and make it the best place that we could for the benefit of all. experience and enjoy.
I just found this old thread... It clarifies what my beliefs are, by reading the arguments of someone who ridicules and argues against them so vehemently. Really interesting. It's like reading the tug-o-war that used to go on in my mind, with part of me insisting everything worthwhile must be hard, that reality creation is delusion, that life wasn't meant to be fun. ;) This helps me appreciate the changes in my own thinking.