For this question, Concerned Citizen is just going to lay back and allow you to pour out the contents of your hearts.
My question is SPECIFIC: I am referring to the GOD of Creation, the GOD of Abraham, the GOD of Isaac, the GOD of Jacob, the GOD of Israel, the GOD who took FLESH (Jesus Christ). In other words, the Biblical GOD.
Why does He offend so many people?
NOTE: Please do not respond that the GOD of the Bible is not "really" offensive and that the problem lies with man's "interpretation" of His Words. I am not looking for wishy-washy fluff. I want SPECIFIC answers to a SPECIFIC question: WHY DOES HE OFFEND YOU?
asked 09 Jul '10, 21:59
Barry Allen ♦♦
Is there any other?
But you have apparently excluded the only possible answer to the question that I can give you. Whether you like it or not, it is the interpretation of scripture that people disagree with (i.e. find disagreeable), not God Himself.
If people find God Himself disagreeable, it is because they have chosen to separate themselves from Him. For if God is Love, why would anyone find that disagreeable unless they believe themselves unworthy of that Love?
You clearly are "educated" in the Word. I believe you could give my pastor a run for his money, when it comes to Biblical knowledge. But my pastor understands that people can have a sensible moral compass, without having a divinity degree. He understands that people can, and must, make great personal sacrifices, without studying the Bible first for guidance. He believes that people can still do the right thing, even if they haven't memorized all of the chapters in the Bible.
He knows that, in spite of the availability of all of the divine words in the Bible, and despite the desire of every Christian church of every denomination in the world to recruit new members, people must still seek a personal relationship with God.
Were this not so, we would already have all the answers, and there would be no further need to learn.
In case I haven't made myself clear: It is not God that offends people at all; it is the ones that call themselves servants of God, the ones that call their God the only true God, and their interpretation of the scriptures the only true interpretation, the ones that claim to have all the answers, that people find difficult to swallow.
God doesn't need these people to spread the Word. What God needs is for these people to live their lives with integrity, to follow the principles they so fervently believe in, to be a shining example of God's word in their thoughts and deeds. If they can do that, they will attract far more people to the fold than if they just talk about the Bible.
The Bible doesn't need Biblical savants to help people understand the Word. People can read the Bible for themselves, and if they open their hearts, God will help them understand the Word.
answered 10 Jul '10, 00:36
(10 Jul '10, 00:54) LeeAnn 1
I like tha part 'under the line' of your answer. But I find being too "offensive" the first part of your answer ('over the line'). I think that the good knowers of Bible are wery wellcomed, here in the site and there on the vorldwide, because they help to clarify and, eventually, improve the own viewpoint; commonly, people dont't know or don't find all passages of bible reffering literally or symbolic to a specific topic. I think they worth a sincere "Thank you". But nobody can impose to nobody the 'own truth'. :) +1 for the second part of your answer.
(10 Jul '10, 10:18) Gleam
i agree vesuvius why teach the words if you do not respect them and are still carnal.
(05 Sep '11, 03:30) white tiger
showing 2 of 3 show 1 more comments
You only and only want answers from people find God offensive so I guess I better shut up:-)
answered 10 Jul '10, 19:02
I Think Therefore I Am
ok, I'm not offended, you are using socratic dialoque to guide the conversation to have a specific conclusion, You are attracting that perception. I'm sorry but I'm not offended, and I disagree that God would limit anyone, anyway, for any reason to come to know Him. I disagree that man's interpretation is concidered "wishy-washy- fluff. Now, If I sound offended, it isn't about the god of the bible, it is those that get attitudes about people's beleifs and responses to the bible that make it offensive.
Therefore, in conclusion, I guess I'm not one you were refering to respond.
answered 10 Jul '10, 00:10
I totally agree with you!
(10 Jul '10, 00:28) BridgetJones09
+1 for the Socratic observation. The question does indeed contain presumptions.
(10 Jul '10, 01:10) Vesuvius
we all have free will i agree Rpuls.
(05 Sep '11, 03:31) white tiger
showing 2 of 3 show 1 more comments
Offensive??? I don't find the God of the Bible offensive, and if I did, why would I torture myself reading The Bible to begin with? The Bible is most of all allegoric, and you have to be a scholar on religion to be able to discuss it from an unbiased point of view, IMHO. I am only offended by prejudiced people, whatever their religion.
answered 10 Jul '10, 00:36
+1 for the Bible being allegoric.
(10 Jul '10, 01:11) Vesuvius
Its the book that gets me the God is ok. It's like a users manual for a beta video device,was good to have when people used beta and needed and still might have some useful things to say (To avoid electric shock do not remove cover...) and the propaganda that people take from it.
I like the nice things "He" does and says in the book but the rest......
answered 10 Jul '10, 10:33
@CC I have read more of the bible since you started posting here....
(10 Jul '10, 23:31) ursixx
URSIXX: Claims from your website that GOD is a maniac killing machine with no rhyme or reason is nonsense. No spiritual analysis is made on the type, meaning, and reason for the judgments, or whether Israel was at WAR with her enemies, or whether man's choice, ignorance, or SIN caused the problems. GOD never condoned ritual human sacrifices [Leviticus 18:21], and He judged Judah for engaging in those practices [Jeremiah 7:29-31; 19:3-5]. I just wanted to point out these things just in case people are doing their own researches.
(12 Jul '10, 03:40) Concerned Citizen
1 Peter 2:18 18 Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse. http://bible.cc/1_peter/2-18.htm naw I don't think so
(04 Oct '12, 02:32) ursixx
If the bible is accurate, it sounds to me like this god thing was a manica killing machine. Or at least an uneducated buffoon that didn't know right from wrong.
(09 Oct '12, 13:45) GOD the Alien
(09 Aug '13, 01:06) ele
showing 2 of 5 show 3 more comments
Ive read the answer to this from Vesuvius is one of the best answers ive seen on this site.I cant add much really. I dont think ANYONE on this earth would ever dislike or disrespect Him if they knew Him .Unfortunately many peoples knowledge about God is gleaned from gross misinterpretation of scripture ( often by those who do know there bibles backwards ) and from other peoples dogma and religion. I must admit that i dont like the god that many people seem to believe in. But the God i personally believe in is nothing but kind,compassionate,intelligent,generous and had no possible element that anyone could find offensive. HOWEVER i cant say that about many peoples religion or dogma. Grab hold of God and dump the religion!! Dont approach God thru religion( even if its your one! ),Hes not in any of it.Too big for that Graham
answered 06 Sep '10, 09:20
Offensive? How about completely ridiculous?
The gawd of Abraham is the god of Mohammed. Yet X-ians and Mooslims alike would wage a 'holy' war against the un-believers. BTW... there are more than twice as many violent quotes in the Bible as there are in the Quran.
kill your disobedient children : Leviticus 20:9
rape the women you steal from the unbelievers : Deut 21:10-12
kill anyone who works on the 'holy day' : Exodus 31:15
kill the town of unbelievers : Deuteronomy 13:13-19
ritually sacrifice the unbelievers : 1 Kings 13:1-2
Want more? Watch this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RV46fsmx6E
But perhaps those quotes don't matter because you received a response from Vesuvius that says 'God is Love'. And yes, God IS Love, but the words in that book get used more to distract from God than to encourage a virtuous life.
People who believe in old, dead books and moralize about the virtues of their religions to uninterested peers offend, not your imaginary gawd of the 'good book'.
answered 10 Dec '10, 18:56
yes, the mythos has been taken literally for over sixteen centuries, lets get back on track
(11 Dec '10, 01:55) fred
I cannot be offended. Sorry, I do though think it is quite silly that people (many) who do believe in a Biblical God have the audacity to tell me I am going to suffer for my sins for not believing in a Biblical God.
When most are offended, I chuckle :)
answered 28 Jun '11, 22:00
yes i agree You. it has happen to me also religious people judging and making threats and they are not even respecting the most important law if only they would know the truth. i am witness.
(06 Sep '11, 08:47) white tiger
As an old useless book in a used book shop I would think the book is okay. But I hate the fact that people actually believe this kind of stuff in this day and age.
No, religion does not deserve respect - its out there with the UFO theories. It deserves just as much respect.
Ron Hubbard did it single handedly just since 1953 With Scientology. This is how religions are made. 2000 years back a bunch of manipulators compiled a bunch of books and people think the 'Universe' is revealed in the book.
Religion is just a bigger version of a cult.
To a lot of sane people Bible Vs The Lord Of The Rings is a closely contested match - where Bible would win for humor but for literary superiority will be claimed by Tolkien. So we don't hate the god of bible, we don't care really. We do hate religious people and the mis-information that they keep spreading.
answered 10 Jul '10, 16:36
Who are those "We" represented by you and who collectively hate religious people for their beliefs and feelings?
(10 Jul '10, 17:52) Gleam
(10 Jul '10, 18:00) xyz
Well. Is your right to be what you want and believe what you can. But why hate who don't agree with you? The hate not solves the problems of world and, probably, nor the your.
(11 Jul '10, 00:34) Gleam
Hear here! 3 cheers for xyz! X! Y! Z! Excellent reply. I don't count myself as atheist (as I know I Am God) but surely feel similarly irritated by X-ians incessant 'converting'. Recently heard the bible referred to as a cheap horror novel. Sure reads that way.
(10 Dec '10, 18:41) Hu Ra
showing 2 of 4 show 2 more comments
I agree with Vesuvius. That being said, I want to give an example of a current event in which an interpretation of God and the Bible becomes questionable.
Muslims in America are wanting to build new mosques. Many people of the communities where the mosques are to be built along with mainstream media figures (that I usually find agreement with) are rejecting the mosques on the basis of everything from traffic to terrorism. Even though the Constitution guarantees the freedom of religion to all American citizens, the argument that the Constitution was heavily influenced by the Bible and Judeo-Christian ethics serves as a basis for the argument against the mosques. It's this kind of "Wishy-Washy fluff" that I reject, not christianity, just the people that think their own interpretation is more important than the individual's.
answered 11 Jul '10, 21:20
God does not offend me. He has given me a very precious gift, “life,” otherwise, I would have never known him, or to be a part of the universe and the human race, needless to say, to participate in this human discussion.
Are you offended that there is a God, and a Bible, and that many people read the Bible, believe in, trust, love, and fear God? Do you fear God if so, is this the reason why you are using the Law of Attraction to lure us into this religious discussion with you? Why do you think that God would offend anyone and what would be his reason, or is it more that you are offended that some people do believe in God? The fact that God is a supernatural being, a spirit, and no has ever seen him, could lead one into the fear of the unknown if one does not believe in things of God!
Nonetheless, the word of God in the Bible is alive and active in our Universe, many people are called to serve, but few are chosen to do the work of the God. God word will prevail overtime, for we live by the word. God is full of mercy, and plentiful in forgiveness.
God is not offended with us, for he understands our human way of thinking, reasoning, and our specific human fears. God is the beginning, and the ending to all who believes in him and to all who do not believes in him, for the price of life is the same for one and all, from the dust we came to the dust we shall all return, and this is a truth for everyone who was given the gift of life. God has given us free will, so we can make the choice that is right for us as a human being. Life is about cause and effect, good, and evil, and of course consequences.
Peace and Love!
answered 21 Aug '10, 05:34
Inactive User ♦♦
what if we are more than our physical bodies, hides of skin;
(22 Aug '10, 19:45) fred
The physical body is only a vessel to house the spirit of the soul, for the soul shall never die. But our material body will return to waste. We are more than dust, when our physical body passes through the spiritual realm of life, and death, to the soul.
(23 Aug '10, 22:25) Inactive User ♦♦
I am serious when I ask which 'god' are you referencing? With the Biblical 'god' there are at least 3 distinct (I would say different) entities you are referencing right here in this quote. Then if we were to add in the GOD of Muhammed, call that 'biblical god' and continue to ask the question in earnest, we'd possibly have yet another god in the mix, while some, perhaps a majority, would deem that EXACT SAME BIBLICAL GOD.
I am offended that LORD God gets same respect (and really any allegiance) from believers as Creation God. Between Gen. 1 and Gen. 3 is a clear distinction in type of gods being referenced. And I mean abundantly clear. Gen. 1 and first part of 2 references God, that is good, that blesses creation, that created 'them' both male and female, that created humanity in 'our' image. Am glad to quote directly from what I am referencing. In Gen. 2:4 and on, 'creation' turns into 'making.' Earth is no longer good/perfect and needs to be worked on, so man is formed (not created) in what shows up as clearly isolation. Lord God is making (not creating) trees. In Gen. 15-17, Lord God speaks for first time in relation to his making, communicating to man what is at best a set up for an inevitable fall, and quite plausibly a blasphemous deception (you will surely die).
That is offensive, and is plausibly more offensive if a) you consider the source and b) you realize many around you are treating this god the same as Creator God.
Lord God then goes onto make/form other creatures all in the name of avoiding loneliness for his 'creation.' As in, I (Lord God) am not sufficient enough a being for your needs, and quite possibly, I loathe your existence, so let me make up these other things/creatures so that you can hopefully tolerate me. Be clear though that what I am making here is not necessarily good, but is necessary to ensure you are working the soil, while also not finding yourself to be alone.
All that equals offensive.
Gen 2:21 shows Lord God causing man to fall into a deep sleep, and one in which awakening from this is never referenced. I deem it offensive to reference man as an awakened creature from this point forward of OT. I deem it offensive to think the Eve character is aware of the command to not eat of Tree of Life, when clearly that command is given prior to her making.
Pretty much all of Gen. 3 (and on) is one big offense and to read it any other way is something between fascinating and humorous. To me what stands out in Gen 3 is verse 9, where suddenly Lord God isn't able to keep track of his own 'creation.' It is offensive to think allegiance ought to be given to an entity that has to ask, "where are you?" Seriously? Either you are an ignorant, not all knowing God to be asking this, or in Gen. 2 we pulled a bait and switch on the reader that hopefully isn't realized by the more gullible among you. And either of these, to be referenced as Creator God, is offensive.
Then from Gen. 3:14 til at least the end of 3, is one big offensive. A tirade is better way of putting that gross offense. It is compounded offensiveness if there are less discerning persons amongst us who are lead to believe, 'snakes are actually cursed, women are actually subservient to men and man is actually separated from his (actual) Creator.' IOW, this entity must be appeased and even respected with the 'authority' that is demonstrated in this chapter. Offensive is the nice way I would put this. Far closer to blasphemous really.
To then go on and think this god entered the flesh of Jesus, and is to be revered as such is offensive. Makes the whole justification of Jesus suffering, sacrificing, and 'dying' seem plausible, while apparently throwing discernment right out the window. Bye bye discernment, we apparently don't need you anymore now that Lord God is our Creator. To further believe Jesus is God whereas ye are not, is offensive. But it does make for a nice fairytale and one that so far seems to be setting up a most unpleasant ending. But you know, the end is near and all that. So suffer more and know your suffering is 'good' and that your work on earth is necessary. Know that your sacrifices will be rewarded somewhere down the line. It's bound to happen.
For the disciples of Lord God have said it is so.
answered 07 Aug '13, 11:59
Jman, I agree with you that a distinction must be made between the Creation God and Lord God. As I stated in my comments below, I believe that our Creator is far removed from the God depicted in the Bible.
(08 Aug '13, 17:30) Herculean
God is offensive because how people know of him and think they know him, i am not offended by God, yes I often question somethings in the bible, and receive answers , as for people who dont read the bible, God offends them because they don't understand or know God's position purpose or plan. in conclusion is offensive really the word?
answered 19 Aug '10, 06:11
Hi Concerned Citizen, i'm pleased that your question has been brought up again...here is my view...my first total faith was my mum, i soon realized that wasn't right...then came along father christmas, i found out also who he really was...then there was nothing for a while, maybe my parents...then it was the turn of the roman catholic religion until the age of 19 years old.
Somewhere between that age and now i realized that there is something (energy, force, universe, chi, prana...), it's name has little importance, that is far beyond my capacity of comprehension...and it seems to me that belief in something greater than myself is necessary for expansion of consciousness...it pulls outwards (or inwards) depending on which way i'm looking at it.
Now i can answer your question...i now realize that at age 19 the roman catholic religion was no longer an expanding force for my consciousness, so i moved away from it...the man-made dogmas were too restrictive and did not portray the image of an all loving and forgiving god...the system of hierarchy within this religion with the angels and saints seemed to me to be a pure invention of the imagination...in short i just saw a false image of god as represented by the catholic church.
answered 05 Sep '11, 04:53
God doesn't offend me. The people that parade around spitting out bible qoutes left and right as if they are hardened facts and are oblivious to anything that is not in the bible are the ones that are offensive. To each his own if fine, but when you bring your beliefs out into public, then you are subject to others that don't believe the same. Simply resiting verses or words that supposedly this god thing said, doesn't prove anything. The bible is so mis-interpreted, how can anyone how stock in anything that is written. One person rEads it one way and another differently, which is fine. But them they pund there fist and shout and quote these veRses in forums and believe that their interpretation is the way that it is and everyone else is wrong.
Now that I think about it, if god existed I would be offended. How dare you kill off humanity with a flood just because people aren't living the way that you think that they should.
answered 04 Oct '12, 06:04
GOD the Alien
I think one issue that I have with the Bible is that it depicts God as we humans are. But we are created in his image, so the Bible says. I find the passages where he appeals strongly to the Israelites to love and honor him to be touching. His relationship with Abraham is paradigmatic. His rescue of Hagar and Ishmael meets our expectations of what we want God to do in our own times of troubles. His constant appeals (along with threats and warnings) also sadden me. He sent prophet after prophet to make his appeals. Why couldn't the Israelites love God and obey him? It seems that no matter how many miracles he performed the people turned to other gods and did other things that contravened his laws. There seemed nothing he could do to get his chosen people to choose and love him exclusively.It seems like a losing proposition for him to tarry with us humans and get what he wants out of the relationship. I don't understand how he did not or could not recognize that fact when he created us. Disobedience seems to be the constant in God and human relationship, rather than an anomaly dependent on facts. We cannot consistently be as he wants us to be. The killings, the anger, his discrimination and wrath against the nonchosen, the jealousy, his silence as bad things happen to individuals are troubling. I don't understand that part of God. Some say that the God, the creator of humans, is merely one God among many, but the Ultimate Creator is pure love, pure goodness and all things we consider good and honorable. It is those parts of the Bible that reflect the Ultimate Creator, if you will, (e.g., Psalm 91) that I find most compelling and appealing.
answered 04 Aug '13, 13:26
All very good points.
(11 Aug '13, 11:08) Jman
i do not have anny problem with God.
We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us.
This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.
what master those the men of church serve?
Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.... Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. ... But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:1-14
They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth."
Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
why does the representent of the church dam you and condam you out of their own judgement?
do they follow God words?
But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
The wise will be put to shame; they will be dismayed and trapped. Since they have rejected the word of the LORD, what kind of wisdom do they have?
Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him?
I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?" 1 Corinthians 3:1-2
For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil." Hebrews 5:12-14
"These people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'" Matthew 15:8-9
"Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: ‘This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men." Mark 7:6-8
"I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.... For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ." Galatians 1:6-8,10
"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness." 2 Timothy 2:15
“Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall. ” Matthew 7:24-27
the truth will set you free. experience and enjoy.
answered 05 Sep '11, 03:19
wt -How come you have to spit out a bunch of nonsensical bible bs every time someone asks a questions. Can you simply comment like a normal person. No matter what someone believes, it is nice to read a coherent sentence that explains ones point of view. Give it a try, the truth will set you free.
(02 Oct '12, 07:12) GOD the Alien
English is not white tiger's native language. I have thought at times about "coherent sentences" myself. But to put that restriction on him I would have to think as well, how coherent would I be if I had to write something in French (White Tiger's native language)?
I do believe I'd do a much worse job than white tiger does with English, as I mainly only know English.
(02 Oct '12, 10:46) Wade Casaldi
For my second point white tiger defends and stands up for God's word, God, Christ and the Holy Spirit. He knows God in a close personal way as he is a Christian. Those that are respectful and honor Christ will be respected and honored in Heaven. In other words those that know God, God knows them. If you are a best friend with someone, that same someone is a best friend with you.
(02 Oct '12, 10:47) Wade Casaldi
white tiger seeks to awaken others to the good news that they are saved, all they need to do is accept it to receive it. Even if I offer bread, people can not eat until they reach out and accept it.
(02 Oct '12, 10:48) Wade Casaldi
I meant no offense personally or to one's native tongue. I enjoy reading different people's views and comments on religion. I find it interesting, However, I find nothing interesting about reading long winded quotes from a two thousand year old book or similar. A quote ot two with explanation or to prove a point is one thing, but when all you have is bible babble then it gets old. You aren't proving anything. Just my opinion.
(02 Oct '12, 13:26) GOD the Alien
showing 2 of 5 show 3 more comments
He doesn't offend me because he doesn't exist. I don't get offended by immaginary people.
Christians offend me because they are so mean. They don't have any boundaries. They have turned the American secular government into a christian theocracy and are using their power to force me to violate my conscience and to work to earn tax dollars to support those same causes. So it's not God that offends. It's Christians.
answered 07 Aug '13, 09:30
I think you paint a little too broad of a stroke with that brush.
(11 Aug '13, 11:09) Jman
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the god as you discuss above, seems to make man the dependant of the envisioned dictated spiritualprecepts that he or she must be followed to be saved. that is all that is as offensive, dumming down free will