isn't it considered blamesphous to depict images of God or embody Him into physical forms, especially since His arrtibutes are The Incomparable, The Unique, The Omnipresent.

Aren't we missing the whole spiritual point when we do so? Isn't the whole point of our life is to come to know God and see Him and embrace Him with our hearts and that will be our admission to seeing Him manifestingly in the hereafer.


  • “To whom will ye liken God? or, what likeness will ye compare unto him?”

  • "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them "

Doesn't this also prove that jesus is not God Himself, but a messenger sent by God?. The Problem is that satan wants humanbeings to always have a superficial/materialistic perspective, especialy when it comes to how they view God linking Him (The Exalted ) with an embodied/physical form, instead of a geniune and profound true prespective. Why do humanbeings sometimes depict images of the Creator, who is Unique, exalted and Incomparable.why does our belief have to carry a materialistic/superficial depicting side?

please make this a useful discussion, i love and hope good for all of us, Insha'Allah

asked 19 Jan '13, 18:28

springflower's gravatar image


edited 19 Jan '13, 20:16

Barry%20Allen's gravatar image

Barry Allen ♦♦


Jesus is not a messenger, Jesus is the message. Paul and the others who had the mystical revelations of Jesus are the messengers. Jesus is the power and the wisdom of God, the Lord that created man, who was sacrificed (forgotten) by God to be buried in man's skull, to be born (remembered) in him as the Son of Man and to raise (restore) man in this birth from above into Godhood.

"You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you; nevertheless, you will die like men and fall as one man, O princes."

(19 Jan '13, 18:59) flowsurfer

(( Say He is God Alone, The Self-sufficient, He betteth not nor was He begotten and there none unto him ))

(19 Jan '13, 19:13) springflower

the problem is that, this ideology of ascribing divinity to man, was derived fro the jews who held such a high view of themselves because of the knowledge they acquired and the gifts that God bestowed on them. This is far from the truth.flowsurfer i would apreciate it if you would not just post your ideologies in such an inposing manner, afterall i requested that this be a beneficial discussion not a debate/ arguement

(19 Jan '13, 19:15) springflower

each of us has a quality of uniqueness, which makes us all the same

(19 Jan '13, 19:20) CalonLan

I've never seen a picture of God. So-called pictures of Christ, yes. God, no. I've never seen a pic of the Holy Spirit either. Jesus represents God in human form (as the son of God). Why not create a visual image? Everyone likes story books w/ pic & the Bible doesn't have any pic's. Visualization is hard for some. Why do you have an issue with this? Why don't you object to pic's of Satan? That would be a good objection/cause imo. Let's get rid of all images of Satan.

(19 Jan '13, 19:45) ele

How could I ever forget Father Sun & Mother Earth - thanks flo!

(19 Jan '13, 20:13) ele

Both Muhammad and Jesus, peace be upon them both, told the people that it doesnt matter what the image of God is for us right now because we would not be able to encompass seeing Him rightnow because we will be too overwhelmed, instead we should emphasis to grasp and embrace Him spiritually genuinely, profoundly, in essence, and when the light of faith in God penetrates and expands, then we , insha'Allah, be qualified to manifest Him in the hereafter.

(20 Jan '13, 10:06) springflower

Thats why we should not alter /shift/deviate our focus and start fabricating fantasy depictions and embodiments because believe me they will never reach transcripting the real glory , and the moral of the lesson is to know and appreciate God geniunely and profoundly,wholeheartedly, then when we learn and fulfil that will we be admitted to the concealed.

(20 Jan '13, 10:08) springflower
showing 0 of 8 show 8 more comments

Chapter 1

The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named is not the eternal name
The nameless is the origin of Heaven and Earth
The named is the mother of myriad things
Thus, constantly without desire, one observes its essence
Constantly with desire, one observes its manifestations
These two emerge together but differ in name
The unity is said to be the mystery
Mystery of mysteries, the door to all wonders
The name that can be named is not the eternal name
The nameless is the origin of Heaven and Earth
The named is the mother of myriad things
Thus, constantly without desire, one observes its essence
Constantly with desire, one observes its manifestations
These two emerge together but differ in name
The unity is said to be the mystery
Mystery of mysteries, the door to all wonders

The power humankind places on symbols ;a cross, a star, a crescent moon , a flag. when the it's the love you have inside that is what counts. I don't think "God" can be blasphemized (?). When people claim that it is blasphemy.It is their interpretations of of what there holy text books say. And their belief about who wrote them.
If I was to start a religion I would make sure that the people that followed it would not be able to make fun of the chosen deity or question the intent of the book that it would be based on.And the leaders of this religion would strongly enforce this. Over time these thoughts would be ingrained to all that followed. Sound familiar?
And just between you and me I think God could take a joke or a good roast , I mean look at the duck billed platypus alt text Now tell me God doesn't have a sense of humor



answered 20 Jan '13, 09:22

ursixx's gravatar image


@ursixx- yes, blasphemy concerns sacred things and sacred things depend on beliefs ... peace

(20 Jan '13, 09:50) blubird two

@ursixx I also think the Universe has a great sense of humor! Nice answer.

(20 Jan '13, 21:22) ele

Hello springflower

I know you are frustrated, i know you sincerely believe in The One, The Only, The Light is the Absolute and Incomparable ... and i thank you for stating clearly your beliefs.

Let me explain how i feel using a parable ... once there was a young girl who dearly loved her father, she adored him. She told her best friend that he was the most beautiful father in the world, but her friend got angry and said "wait a minute, my father is the greatest that ever lived" ... and they squabbled on and on. Many years later the young girl become a woman, she still dearly loved her father, but she also realized that all other women dearly loved their fathers just as much as she did ...

and the conflict in her mind was washed away, she had discovered the other face of frustration, cooperation. bb2


answered 21 Jan '13, 01:26

blubird%20two's gravatar image

blubird two

Blubird, thank you, although i have to point out that we all have the same and One God

(21 Jan '13, 12:27) springflower

@springflower- Masha'Allah ... pleased you understand my meaning :)

(21 Jan '13, 13:07) blubird two

If 'The Divine' is incomprehensible to human intellect,
then It truly cannot be given a name or described.
that is why universal symbols were depicted by our forefathers
to give each of us something to reflect about.
in time we may see this


answered 20 Jan '13, 06:16

fred's gravatar image


Dont take this the wrong way, but when you mentioned EVIDENCE, you then quoted a couple of lines from a book that: 1. Youve never seen any of the original copies of. 2. You dont know who wrote the words 3. Youve lifted them out of a book that says a lot of things 4. Youve taken them out of the book to back up a current belief system.

Thats not EVIDENCE, thats Dogma.

No offense meant



answered 21 Jan '13, 03:48

Monty%20Riviera's gravatar image

Monty Riviera
14.3k11148 Dogma is the official system of belief or doctrine held by a religion, or a particular group or organization.[1] It serves as part of the primary basis of an ideology or belief system, and it cannot be changed or discarded without affecting the very system's paradigm, or the ideology itself. They can refer to acceptable opinions of philosophers or philosophical schools, public decrees, or issued decisions of political authorities.

(21 Jan '13, 04:43) ursixx

@Monty Riviera . Thats why I'm a Catma person A catma is a belief espoused by a religion which must be understood by all members of that religion. Although it must be understood, it does not have to be accepted as truth because proof of the catma may not yet exist or be accepted, or that proof requires postulates that the adherent to the religion may not presently accept.

(21 Jan '13, 04:48) ursixx

Thankyou for the additional info Ursixx. Not familiar with Catma..but then 3 years ao i hadnt heard of Bashar,Ester or Neville. I live and learn.

(21 Jan '13, 14:13) Monty Riviera

@Monty Riviera .. I didn't know of Catma either till I started writing the comment.. was just being a smart ħ§ then I Googled it and it fit so well

(21 Jan '13, 17:23) ursixx

Ahh i see Ursixx....well ive bin thinking about Catma. Hell...with 30000 different religions based on the bible alone...theres room for another one i guess. Catma makes as much sense as some of the others!!!

(22 Jan '13, 12:42) Monty Riviera
showing 2 of 5 show 3 more comments

Do you know why that is? Any image that is made could not define him, how can you define what encompasses all that exists. The light that established itself by himself in the beginning, none of you can depict him like he really is unless your heart is pure and that you know him above in his kingdom in spirit. or that you can meditate and be born of water and spirit and know yourself made in his image, that would give you idea of what he looks like. The word is truth, he is the embodiment of truth about everything from the beginning to the end eternal. If you want to worship him, worship in spirit and truth.

Yes jesus is a child of the father(God), he told it himself he was the one that went up above(born again of water and spirit) like many other before him and after him. I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. )

We came to deliver his message. He was representing him here on earth. he was one with the knowledge(gnosis) anointed by the father (christ,Kristo) jesus said it himself: I am the way, the truth and the life. "Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going. Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way? Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

Jesus was the perfect example of a pure heart, not a heart of stone. He did not divide but was in truth. Remember the commandment: He answered: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind"; and, "Love your neighbor as yourself."

"You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."

update:jai as given a good answer with her elephant parabole. God hold all of this in him. this matter is the physical part of him.

alt text

and God is spirit in the eternal now in the kingdom like this: alt text

now that people play in the clay and make image of God on the outside does this help them? or would it help them better to know them self inside the cup and to see them self in the image of God?

when you are ready,to know your self and be born of water and spirit(light),keep watch(be aware)know your self(strive to enter the narrow gate)eventually you will reach the water and start to see your self:

let there be light,Be the light that you can be,experience and enjoy.

Up date:For you that seek answer and like book

I will speak to those who know to hear not with the ears of the body but with the ears of the mind. For many have sought after the truth and have not been able to find it; because there has taken hold of them the old leaven of the Pharisees and the scribes of the Law. And the leaven is the errant desire of the angels and the demons and the stars. As for the Pharisees and the scribes, it is they who belong to the archons who have authority over them.

For no one who is under the Law will be able to look up to the truth, for they will not be able to serve two masters. For the defilement of the Law is manifest; but undefilement belongs to the light. The Law commands (one) to take a husband (or) to take a wife, and to beget, to multiply like the sand of the sea. But passion, which is a delight to them, constrains the souls of those who are begotten in this place, those who defile and those who are defiled, in order that the Law might be fulfilled through them. And they show that they are assisting the world; and they turn away from the light, who are unable to pass by the archon of darkness until they pay the last penny.

But the Son of Man came forth from Imperishability, being alien to defilement. He came to the world by the Jordan river, and immediately the Jordan turned back. And John bore witness to the descent of Jesus. For it is he who saw the power which came down upon the Jordan river; for he knew that the dominion of carnal procreation had come to an end. The Jordan river is the power of the body, that is, the senses of pleasures. The water of the Jordan is the desire for sexual intercourse. John is the archon of the womb.

And this is what the Son of Man reveals to us: It is fitting for you (pl.) to receive the word of truth, if one will receive it perfectly. But as for one who is in ignorance, it is difficult for him to diminish his works of darkness which he has done. Those who have known Imperishability, however, have been able to struggle against passions [...]. I have said to you, "Do not build nor gather for yourselves in the place where the brigands break open, but bring forth fruit to the Father."

The foolish - thinking in their heart that if they confess, "We are Christians," in word only (but) not with power, while giving themselves over to ignorance, to a human death, not knowing where they are going nor who Christ is, thinking that they will live, when they are (really) in error - hasten towards the principalities and authorities. They fall into their clutches because of the ignorance that is in them. For (if) only words which bear testimony were effecting salvation, the whole world would endure this thing and would be saved. But it is in this way that they drew error to themselves. ... ... (3 lines unrecoverable) ... they do not know that they will destroy themselves. If the Father were to desire a human sacrifice, he would become vainglorious.

For the Son of Man clothed himself with their first-fruits; he went down to Hades and performed many mighty works. He raised the dead therein; and the world-rulers of darkness became envious of him, for they did not find sin in him. But he also destroyed their works from among men, so that the lame, the blind, the paralytic, the dumb, (and) the demon-possessed were granted healing. And he walked upon the waters of the sea. For this reason he destroyed his flesh from [...] which he [...]. And he became [...] salvation [...] his death ... ... (4 lines unrecoverable) ... everyone [...] how many they are! They are blind guides, like the disciples. They boarded the ship; at about thirty stadies, they saw Jesus walking on the sea. These are empty martyrs, since they bear witness only to themselves. And yet they are sick, and they are not able to raise themselves.

But when they are "perfected" with a (martyr's) death, this is the thought that they have within them: "If we deliver ourselves over to death for the sake of the Name we will be saved." These matters are not settled in this way. But through the agency of the wandering stars they say they have "completed" their futile "course", and [...] say, [...]. But these [...] they have delivered themselves ... ... (7 lines unrecoverable) ... but they resemble [...] them. They do not have the word which gives life.

And some say, "On the last day we will certainly arise in the resurrection." But they do not know what they are saying, for the last day is when those belonging to Christ [...] the earth, which is [...]. When the time was fulfilled, he destroyed their archon of darkness [...] soul(s) ... ... (10 lines unrecoverable) ... he stood [...] they asked what they have been bound with, and how they might properly release themselves. And they came to know themselves, who they are, or rather, where they are now, and what is the place in which they will rest from their senselessness, arriving at knowledge. These Christ will transfer to the heights, since they have renounced foolishness (and have) advanced to knowledge. And those who have knowledge ... ... (11 lines unrecoverable) ... the great [...] resurrection [...], he has to come to know the Son of Man, that is, he has come to know himself. This is the perfect life, that man know himself by means of the All.

Do not expect, therefore, the carnal resurrection, which is destruction; and they are not stripped of it (the flesh) who err in expecting a resurrection that is empty. They do not know the power of God, nor do they understand the interpretation of the scriptures, on account of their double-mindedness. The mystery which the Son of Man spoke about, [...], in order that [...] destroy ... ... (2 lines unrecoverable) ... man who [...] book, which is written [...] for they have ... ... (1 line unrecoverable) ... blessed [...] within them, and they dwell before God under the light yoke. Those who do not have the life-giving word in their heart will die; and in their thought they have become manifest to the Son of Man, according to the manner of their activity and their error [...] of this sort. They [...] as he divides the [...], and they do not understand that the Son of Man is coming from him.

But when they have come up to [...] sacrifice, they die in a human way, and they deliver themselves ... ... (2 lines unrecoverable) ... a death ... ... (3 lines unrecoverable) ... those who [...], they are many [...], each one [...] pervert [...] gain [...] their mind. Those who receive him to themselves with uprightness and power and every knowledge are the ones whom he will transfer to the heights, unto life eternal.

But those who receive him to themselves with ignorance, the pleasures which are defiled prevail over them. It is those people who used to say; "God created members for our use, for us to grow in defilement, in order that we might enjoy ourselves." And they cause God to participate with them in deeds of this sort; and they are not steadfast upon the earth. Nor will they reach heaven, but [...] place will [...] four ... ... (3 lines unrecoverable) ... unquenchable ... ... (3 lines unrecoverable) ... word [...] upon the Jordan river, when he came to John at the time he was baptized. The Holy Spirit came down upon him as a dove [...] accept for ourselves that he was born of a virgin and he took flesh; he [...] having received power. Were we also begotten from a virginal state or conceived by the word? Rather, we have been born again by the word. Let us therefore strengthen ourselves as virgins in the [...].

The males dwell [...] the virgin, by means of [...] in the word [...]. But the word of [...] and spirit ... ... (4 lines unrecoverable) ... is the Father [...] for the man ... ... (1 line unrecoverable) ... like Isaiah, who was sawed with a saw, (and) he became two. So also the Son of Man divides us by the word of the cross. It divides the day from the night and the light from the darkness and the corruptible from incorruptibility, and it divides the males from the females. But Isaiah is the type of the body. The saw is the word of the Son of Man, which separates us from the error of the angels.

No one knows the God of truth except solely the man who will forsake all of the things of the world, having renounced the whole place, (and) having grasped the fringe of his garment. He has set himself up as a power; he has subdued desire in every way within himself. He has [...] and he has turned to him [...], having also examined [...] in becoming [...] the mind. And he [...] from his soul [...] there [...] he has ... ... (1 line unrecoverable) ... in what way [...] the flesh which [...] in what way [...] out of it, and how many powers does he have? And who is the one who has bound him? And who is the one who will loose him? And what is the light? And what is the darkness? And who is the one who has created the earth? And who is God? And who are the angels? And what is soul? And what is spirit? And where is the voice? And who is the one who speaks? And who is the one who hears? Who is the one who gives pain? And who is the one who suffers? And who is it who has begotten the corruptible flesh? And what is the governance? And why are some lame, and some blind, and some [...], and some [...], and some rich, and some poor? And why are some powerless, some brigands? ... ... (4 lines unrecoverable)

... he having [...] as he again [...], fighting against thoughts of the archons and the powers and the demons, not giving them a place in which to rest. But he struggled against their passions [...], he condemned their error. He cleansed his soul from the transgressions which he had committed with an alien hand. He stood up, being upright within himself, because he exists in everyone, and because he has death and life within himself, and he exists in the midst of both of them. And when he had received the power, he turned towards the parts of the right, and he entered into the truth, having forsaken all things pertaining to the left, having been filled with wisdom, with counsel, with understanding, and with insight and an eternal power. And he broke open his bonds. Those who had formed the whole place, he condemned. But they did not find [...] hidden within him.

And he gave command to himself; he began to know himself and to speak with his mind, which is the father of the truth, concerning the unbegotten aeons, and concerning the virgin who brought forth the light. And he thinks about the power which flowed over the whole place, and which takes hold of him. And he is a disciple of his mind, which is male. He began to keep silent within himself until the day when he should become worthy to be received above. He rejects for himself loquacity and disputations, and he endures the whole place; and he bears up under them, and he endures all of the evil things. And he is patient with every one; he makes himself equal to every one, and he also separates himself from them. And that which someone wants, he brings to him, in order that he might become perfect (and) holy. When the [...], he grasped him, having bound him upon [...], and he was filled with wisdom. He bore witness to the truth [...] the power, and he went into Imperishability, the place whence he came forth, having left the world, which has the appearance of the night, and those that whirl the stars in it. This, therefore, is the true testimony: When man comes to know himself and God, who is over the truth, he will be saved, and he will crown himself with the crown unfading.

John was begotten by the World through a woman, Elizabeth; and Christ was begotten by the world through a virgin, Mary. What is (the meaning of) this mystery? John was begotten by means of a womb worn with age, but Christ passed through a virgin's womb. When she had conceived, she gave birth to the Savior. Furthermore, she was found to be a virgin again. Why, then do you (pl.) err and not seek after these mysteries, which were prefigured for our sake?

It is written in the Law concerning this, when God gave a command to Adam, "From every tree you may eat, but from the tree which is in the midst of Paradise do not eat, for on the day that you eat from it, you will surely die." But the serpent was wiser than all the animals that were in Paradise, and he persuaded Eve, saying, "On the day when you eat from the tree which is in the midst of Paradise, the eyes of your mind will be opened." And Eve obeyed, and she stretched forth her hand; she took from the tree and ate; she also gave to her husband with her. And immediately they knew that they were naked, and they took some fig-leaves (and) put them on as girdles.

But God came at the time of evening, walking in the midst of Paradise. When Adam saw him, he hid himself. And he said, "Adam, where are you?" He answered (and) said, "I have come under the fig tree." And at that very moment, God knew that he had eaten from the tree of which he had commanded him, "Do not eat of it." And he said to him, "Who is it who has instructed you?" And Adam answered, "The woman whom you have given me." And the woman said, "It is the serpent who instructed me." And he (God) cursed the serpent, and called him "devil." And he said, "Behold, Adam has become like one of us, knowing evil and good." Then he said, "Let us cast him out of paradise, lest he take from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever."

But what sort is this God? First he maliciously refused Adam from eating of the tree of knowledge, and, secondly, he said "Adam, where are you?" God does not have foreknowledge? Would he not know from the beginning? And afterwards, he said, "Let us cast him out of this place, lest he eat of the tree of life and live forever." Surely, he has shown himself to be a malicious grudger! And what kind of God is this? For great is the blindness of those who read, and they did not know him. And he said, "I am the jealous God; I will bring the sins of the fathers upon the children until three (and) four generations." And he said, "I will make their heart thick, and I will cause their mind to become blind, that they might not know nor comprehend the things that are said." But these things he has said to those who believe in him and serve him!

And in one place, Moses writes, "He made the devil a serpent <for> those whom he has in his generation." Also, in the book which is called "Exodus," it is written thus: "He contended against the magicians, when the place was full of serpents according to their wickedness; and the rod which was in the hand of Moses became a serpent, (and) it swallowed the serpents of the magicians."

Again it is written (Nm 21:9), "He made a serpent of bronze (and) hung it upon a pole ... ... (1 line unrecoverable) ... which [...] for the one who will gaze upon this bronze serpent, none will destroy him, and the one who will believe in this bronze serpent will be saved." For this is Christ; those who believed in him have received life. Those who did not believe will die.

What, then, is this faith? They do not serve ... ... (16 lines unrecoverable) ... and you (pl.) [...] we [...] and you do not understand Christ spiritually when you say, "We believe in Christ". For this is the way Moses writes in every book. The book of the generation of Adam is written for those who are in the generation of the Law. They follow the Law and they obey it, and ... ... ( 1 line unrecoverable) ... together with the ...

pp. 51-54 of codex almost completely missing

... the Ogdoad, which is the eighth, and that we might receive that place of salvation." But they know not what salvation is, but they enter into misfortune, and into a [...] in death, in the waters. This is the baptism of death which they observe ... ... (6 lines unrecoverable) ... come to death [...] and this is [...] according to ... ... (lines 19 through end-of-page unrecoverable) ... he completed the course of Valentinus. He himself speaks about the Ogdoad, and his disciples resemble the disciples of Valentinus. They on their part, moreover, [...] leave the good, but they have worship of the idols ... ... (8 lines unrecoverable) ... he has spoken many words, and he has written many books [...] words ... ... (lines 16 through end-of-page unrecoverable) ... they are manifest from the confusion in which they are, in the deceit of the world. For they go to that place, together with their knowledge, which is vain.

Isidore also, his son, resembled Basilides. He also [...] many, and he [...], but he did not [...] this [...] other disciple(s) [...] blind [...], but he gave them [...] pleasures ... ... (lines 16 through end-of-page unrecoverable) ... they do not agree with each other. For the Simonians take wives (and) beget children; but the [...] abstain from their [...] nature [...] a passion [...] the drops of [...] anoint them ... ... (1 line unrecoverable) ... which we [...] they agree with each other [...] him [...] they ... ... (lines 14 through end-of-page unrecoverable) ... judgment(s) [...] these, on account of the [...] them [...] the heretics [...] schism(s) [...] and the males [...] are men [...] will belong to the world-rulers of darkness ... ... (1 line unrecoverable) ... of the world ... ... (1 line unrecoverable) ... they have [...] the archons [...] power(s) ... ... (1 line unrecoverable) ... judge them [...]. But the [...] word(s) of ... ... (lines 20 through end-of-page unrecoverable) ... speak, while they [...] become [...] in a fire unquenchable [...] they are punished.

But these who are from the generation of the Son of Man have revealed to the [...] in all of the affairs ... ... (2 lines unrecoverable) ... But it is difficult to [...] to find one [...] and two ... ... (2 lines unrecoverable) ... For the Savior said to his disciples, [...] one in ... ... (lines 19 through end-of-page unrecoverable) ... and he has [...] wisdom, as well as counsel and understanding and intelligence and knowledge and power and truth. And he has some [...] from above [...], the place where the Son of Man ... ... (2 lines unrecoverable) ... power [...] guard against ... ... (lines 14 through end-of-page unrecoverable) ... he knows [...] understands ... ... (1 line unrecoverable) ... worthy of him [...] true [...] alien [...]. But [...], together with [...] evil, in ... ... (2 lines unrecoverable) ... he received baptism [...], and those that ... ... (lines 13 through end-of-page unrecoverable)

pp. 63-64 of codex missing

... in a dream [...] silver [...]. But [...] becomes wealthy [...] among the authorities ... ... (1 line unrecoverable) ... But the sixtieth [...], thus [...] world [...] they [...] gold ... ... (18 lines unrecoverable) ... they think ... ... (1 line unrecoverable) ... we have been released from the flesh. ... ... (1 line unrecoverable) ... not turn him to [...] Jesus ... ... (1 line unrecoverable) ... the beginning [...] a son ... ... (1 line unrecoverable) ... out of [...], which is the pattern [...] light of ... ... (16 lines unrecoverable) ... to find from [...] defilement which ... ... (1 line unrecoverable) ... they do not blaspheme [...] them not, neither is there any pleasure nor desire, nor can they control them. It is fitting that they should become undefiled, in order that they might show to every one that they are from the generation of the Son of Man, since it is about them that the Savior bore witness.

But those who are from the seed of Adam are manifest by their deeds, which are their work. They have not ceased from desire which is wicked [...]. But some [...] the dogs [...] the angels for [...] which they beget [...] will come [...] with their ... ... (9 lines unrecoverable) ... move as they [...] on the day when they will beget children. Not only that, but they have intercourse while they are giving suck.

But others are caught up in the death of [...]. They are pulled <every> which way, (and) they are gratified by unrighteous Mammon. They lend money at interest; they waste time; and they do not work. But he who is father of Mammon is (also) father of sexual intercourse.

But he who is able to renounce them shows that he is from the generation of the Son of Man, (and) has power to accuse them. [...] he restrains [...] part(s) in a [...] in wickedness, and he makes the outer like the inner. He resembles an angel which ... ... (1 line unrecoverable) ... power [...] said them. But the one ... ... (5 lines unrecoverable) And having withdrawn [...], he became silent, having ceased from loquacity and disputations. But he who has found the life-giving word, and he who has come to know the Father of Truth, has come to rest; he has ceased seeking, having found. And when he found, he became silent. But few are the things he used to say to those that [...] with their intellectual mind the [...].

There are some, who upon entering the faith, receive a baptism on the ground that they have it as a hope of salvation, which they call the "seal", not knowing that the fathers of the world are manifest (in) that place. But he himself knows that he is sealed. For the Son of Man did not baptize any of his disciples. But [...], if those who are baptized were headed for life, the world would become empty. And the fathers of baptism were defiled.

But the baptism of truth is something else; it is by renunciation of the world that it is found. But those who say only with the tongue that they are renouncing it are lying, and they are coming to the place of fear. Moreover, they are humbled within it. Just as those to whom it was given to have been condemned, they shall get something!

They are wicked in their behavior! Some of them fall away to the worship of idols. Others have demons dwelling with them, as did David the king. He is the one who laid the foundation of Jerusalem; and his son Solomon, whom he begat in adultery, is the one who built Jerusalem by means of the demons, because he received power. When he had finished building, he imprisoned the demons in the temple. He placed them into seven waterpots. They remained a long time in the waterpots, abandoned there. When the Romans went up to Jerusalem, they discovered the waterpots, and immediately the demons ran out of the waterpots, as those who escape from prison. And the waterpots remained pure thereafter. And since those days, they dwell with men who are in ignorance, and they have remained upon the earth.

Who, then, is David? And who is Solomon? And what is the foundation? And what is the wall which surrounds Jerusalem? And who are the demons? And what are the waterpots? And who are the Romans? But these are mysteries ... ... (11 lines unrecoverable) ... victorious over [...] the Son of Man [...] undefiled ... ... (3 lines unrecoverable) ... and he [...] when he [...]. For [...] is a great ... ... (1 line unrecoverable) ... to this nature ... ... (1 line unrecoverable) ... those that [...] all in a [...] blessed, and they [...] like a salamander. It goes into the flaming fire which burns exceedingly; it slithers into the furnace ... ... (13 lines unrecoverable) ... the furnace ... ... (1 line unrecoverable) ... the boundaries [...], that they might see [...] and the power [...] sacrifice. Great is the sacrifice ... ... (2 lines unrecoverable) ..., but in a [...] aside [...]. And the Son of Man [...], and he has become manifest through the bubbling fountain of immortality. ... ... (1 line unrecoverable) ... he is pure, and he is [...]. A free man is not envious. He is set apart from everyone, from every audacity and envy the power of which is great [...] is (a) disciple [...] pattern of law [...] these [...] only ... ... (2 lines unrecoverable) ... they placed him under a [...] a teaching ... ... (1 line unrecoverable) ... his teaching, saying, "Even if an angel comes from heaven, and preaches to you beyond that which we preached to you, may he be anathema," (Gal 1:8) not letting the [...] of the soul which [...] freedom [...]. For they are still immature [...] they are not able to keep this law which works by means of these heresies - though it is not they, but the powers of Sabaoth - by means of the [...] the doctrines [...] as they have been jealous of some [...] law(s) in Christ. Those who will [...] power [...] they reach the [...] the twelve judge [...] them [...] the fountain of immortality ... ... (3 lines unrecoverable) ... in order that ... ... (3 lines unrecoverable) ... good [...] the whole place. [...] there the enemies. He baptized himself, and the [...] he became divine; he flew up, (and) they did not grasp him. [...] there the enemies [...], since it was not possible for them to bring him down again. If every [...] grasps him with ignorance, attending to those who teach in the corners by means of carved things and artful tricks, they are not able [...].

pp. 75-76 of codex missing

seek and you shall find.


answered 19 Jan '13, 20:20

white%20tiger's gravatar image

white tiger

edited 24 Jan '13, 03:56

@white tiger- You are growing, and it is good to see! Thank you for reading my answer- I hope it helped you see some more of the truth. Blessings, wt! Love, Jai

(22 Jan '13, 01:36) Jaianniah

@jaianniah all the children of light are always growing.But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they that, "'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!"The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. i am who i am,the wind blow where ever it please you ear the sound it makes but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going.

(22 Jan '13, 14:38) white tiger

I jump into the fray...

I am reminded of the Parable of the Blind Men who touched an Elephant, and then were asked, "Now, what is an Elephant?"

"An Elephant is like a tree," said one, who had grasped one great leg.

"No, an Elephant is a Rope," cried the second, for he had grasped the tail.

"You are both wrong! An elephant is a great wall!" cried the third man.

The fourth cried, "But an elephant is like a snake, " for he had held the great trunk of the beast.

"But you are all right and all wrong," said a Sage, standing nearby. "An elephant is none of these things, and yet all these things, at once."

For some, God is this:

alt text

For others, God is this:

alt text

For some, God is this:

alt text

Some think God is this:

alt text

The Beauty of it is that we all hold Great Images of God in our hearts! That is where His image belongs. We certainly should be free here on Inward Quest to hold any and all images of God in our Hearts.

As for blasphemous...Well, I saw the Mind of God...perhaps I am blasphemous to have reported such. But it was so wondrous that my own mind could not contain it at all. To picture God? Hard! Poor Moses was turned white-haired just from his meeting with God...But we are free to express our Love of God as we choose, at least here in America. Let us be grateful we can hold His Love, and Image, at least. or, even better said, may be allowed to hold any Image we want, including None at all.

alt text




answered 21 Jan '13, 06:53

Jaianniah's gravatar image


HEY! Moses looked good with white hair... ;) was a win win deal

(21 Jan '13, 07:00) ursixx

LOL! :) Jai

(21 Jan '13, 07:06) Jaianniah

Both Muhammad and Jesus, peace be upon them both, told the people that it doesnt matter what the image of God is for us right now because we would not be able to encompass seeing Him rightnow because we will be too overwhelmed, instead we should emphasis to grasp and embrace Him spiritually genuinely, profoundly, in essence, and when the light of faith in God penetrates and expands, then we , insha'Allah, be qualified to manifest Him in the hereafter.

(21 Jan '13, 12:36) springflower

Thats why we should not alter /shift/deviate our focus and start fabricating fantasy depictions and embodiments because believe me they will never reach transcripting the real glory , and the moral of the lesson is to know and appreciate God geniunely and profoundly,wholeheartedly, then when we learn and fulfil that will we be admitted to manifesting what has been concealed.

(21 Jan '13, 12:37) springflower

very nice jay.will up date my answer thank you.

(21 Jan '13, 13:34) white tiger
showing 2 of 5 show 3 more comments

Its so frustrating that some peope here don't give themselves the chance to think through and rush to type in any answer or comment. What i truly believe is that when we take any bodyform that came into existence and ascribe divinity to it, that is wrong. Even in both the bible and the glorious qura'n it states that no one has seen the image, if that's an appropriate way of addressing it, of God,. Yet still some strongly insist on associating God with embodied/physical forms that came to this earth. i would strongly advice those who do so to question themselves honestly regarding the validity of their claims so that they don't say something they have no evidence of. The One , The Only, The Light is the Absolute and Incomparable. He is high above exalted than what they ascribe to Him. Realise that when we fall into such a mistake we are confining God, which is in spiritual terms blasphemy. I hope you would give yourself the chance to grasp what i'am pointing to, and may Allah lead us from darkness to light.


answered 20 Jan '13, 09:53

springflower's gravatar image


edited 20 Jan '13, 10:35

blubird%20two's gravatar image

blubird two

he made all of us in is image. i am he that can tell you this. so let there be light,Be the light that you can be,experience and enjoy.

(20 Jan '13, 11:43) white tiger

Sorry my error - I didn't see this. My comments above belong here.

(20 Jan '13, 21:24) ele

@springflower "Its so frustrating that some peope here dont give themselves the chance to think through and rush to type i any answer or comment." How can I have any respect for your ?'s when you have NO respect for anyone's else's religious beliefs? Take for example your magic/Christian ? & your ?'s since. Nearly all your ?'s end in conflict. I beginning to think I know more about Islam than you do.

(20 Jan '13, 21:25) ele

@springflower If your 'heart' was sound you would not have an issue with other people's beliefs. These 'issues' would not be part of your reality. Read your Quran & read the works of great Islamic scholars & saints

(20 Jan '13, 21:26) ele

the flesh is flesh and the spirit is are a child of God made in is image(spirit) walking in the flesh. but you do not know your self.and you do not know the place where you come from and where you are going.when you want to know your self do you go find a book to learn about your self? why do you frustrate your self and seek division and conflict? is that light or darkness?do you question your self honestly?and when you fall or make a mistake what do you do?how could you ever-

(20 Jan '13, 22:16) white tiger

confine God? God create and confine everything that exist from the beguinning to the end eternal he is aware and know the truth about everything and he is truthful. and yes i understand what you are referring to idolatry making idol of matter to be adore by creation to make himself taller then God.some men made a living of this receiving the sacrifice to the idol. it is the same with book, law,money etc... men is always seeking power and will try to seek advantage.

(20 Jan '13, 22:31) white tiger

but is men helping him self when doing this? if he is darkness is it helping him? yes he can get money and power in this world until he die.but he cannot bring anny of this with him. and the darkness will not come to the light from fear to have is deeds revealed.

(20 Jan '13, 22:40) white tiger

fellow inwardquesters, i truly am sorry if you felt offended by my remark. iam not here to stir any confict, my pots are just a gateway for a deeper reflecting on some isues dealing with spirituality. please do not get offended, i also learned some things here and hope our discussion will serve a useful purpose. thank you

(21 Jan '13, 12:25) springflower

@springflower i am not a divider am i? i am telling you the truth am i not? then strive to enter the narrow gate. let there be light,Be the light that you can be,experience and enjoy.

(21 Jan '13, 14:20) white tiger

@springflower if you are still looking for book knowledge in this world. Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.

(21 Jan '13, 17:01) white tiger

The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

(21 Jan '13, 17:04) white tiger

"When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me."All this I have told you so that you will not go astray.blessed is he who is not ashamed of me.

(21 Jan '13, 17:11) white tiger
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