At what stage does the soul enter the fetus? And does having an abortion gets you karmically involved?
Indeed is an abortion the equivalent of taking a life and thus gets you karmically involved?
asked 05 Sep '10, 09:10
Barry Allen ♦♦
With rare exception, consciousness projects into the physical body at the first breath i.e. the time of birth.
You can figure out the true effects of abortion for yourself from there. :)
And, to save you asking, those rare exceptions happen where the consciousness wants to experience the perspective of that termination.
Nothing gets you karmically involved (in the way that most people think of karma) because that kind of karma doesn't exist.
answered 05 Sep '10, 09:23
Nice answer! "Nothing gets you karmically involved (in th way most people think of karma) because that kind of karma doesn't exist" - Are you saying there is a "kind of karma" that does exist?
(05 Sep '10, 14:00) Michaela
@Michaela, if you consider Karma to be... something happened that led to something else happening then that thing exists. It is definitely not what people consider to be Karma but you can understand how that idea originally gave rise to the notion of traditional Karma. For example, if I go around my day(s) in a very angry mood, then sooner or later, the Law of Attraction is going to attract vibrational matches to that angry mood and I'm probably not going to like them. It's not karmic punishment. It's me kicking off something that leads to something else.
(05 Sep '10, 14:16) Stingray
Excellent answer Stingray.
(05 Sep '10, 14:17) GS415
@Michaela, I'm not using the term cause and effect because it's not cause and effect as we understand it. Because that implies linear time. And since past, present and future are all happening NOW, linear time does not exist outside of our physical focus on it. It's more like an expansion-type thing.
(05 Sep '10, 14:20) Stingray
Thanks for the clarification - makes perfect sense. However isn't it similar to the debate we had previously where I said we learn from our past mistakes. If I was angry and attracted a vibrational match to that anger, it's only when I wake up and realize or learn what I previously did to attract that circumstance that will put me on a path to creating something different.
(05 Sep '10, 14:58) Michaela
@Michaela - re: Lessons - sure if you put it like that, I would agree with you. Though in that case I still wouldn't call it a lesson. That word, to me, implies a curriculum with prepackaged bits to learn, which starts heading towards a fatalistic idea. But anyway, let's use that word lesson if you insist :) ...if you boil it down, there is then only really one lesson to learn anyway (even if you learn it again and again)...and that is, how to align with your Higher Self from where you currently are. Everything else in life flows naturally from there when you learn that lesson.
(05 Sep '10, 17:02) Stingray
@Michaela, I think karma is more of a balancing out of how your actions affect others and not what the law of attraction is on a personal level.
(05 Sep '10, 17:05) RPuls
@Stingray - I think you may have clarified our differing opinions regarding 'lessons'.
"That word, to me,implies a curriculum with prepackaged bits to learn,which starts heading towards a fatalistic idea."
Whereas I am referring to 'lessons' in the context of learning from mistakes,not intentionally looking for a lesson to learn.Hope that makes sense. I think we might be on a similar wavelength but our approach is just a little different.Which is good, because I think there are many paths leading to the same place.
(05 Sep '10, 19:05) Michaela
@Rpuls - I get what you're saying but I think that implies punishment or reward for our actions and I believe that we are the only ones who determine our own punishment and reward, if any.
(05 Sep '10, 19:08) Michaela
Michaela - yes, I guess the ideas are not so different really, though I would still probably not use the word mistake either (because no new desire is ever a mistake, since that is what the universe is geared up to do) but I think we're broadly in the same area with this.
(05 Sep '10, 20:27) Stingray
@Stingray - yes,I don't think I'll get into a debate on 'mistake' but,as always, thanks for the 'food for thought':)
(05 Sep '10, 22:49) Michaela
showing 2 of 11 show 9 more comments
I agree with Stingray's answer about when the soul enters the body. But for those of you who are anti abortion, I would like to ask the following question. If a soul desires to have a physical experience can anyone on earth stop it? With my understanding of the law of attraction, I think not.
answered 06 Sep '10, 19:56
I am unsure at which point the soul enters the fetus. In fact, it's possible that it's different with each case, depending on what was agreed to on the other side beforehand.
But I believe there can be a lot of scenarios with abortion:
The mother and child have already agreed to the experience for some reason.
The child may sense a change in the mother's circumstances, and feel the prior agreement or attraction between them is not as planned and may ask to withdraw, which the mother senses on some level and chooses abortion.
The mother may have agreed to the pregnancy between lives and for some reason changes her mind and wants to terminate the agreement, due to her change in feelings or circumstances.
The mother senses she knows this soul from before and does not want to help it.
While, of course, I don't think abortion should be take lightly, I feel that worry about guilt or karma are not necessary on the mother's part either. We humans cannot destroy a soul, only a body. The soul, if attached to the body of an aborted baby, will have opportunities with other mothers or will stay home on the other plane for awhile. There is nothing destroyed, and the soul of the aborted is perhaps much more understanding than we think.
answered 06 Sep '10, 02:45
Thanks and Blessings LeeAnn...........
(06 Sep '10, 06:52) daniele
I agree with not worrying about the karma thing,Theres already been a lot of soul searching and pain.I dont think adding angst and worry over many coming years will help anything. neither the mother,God or any sub sequent children.
(07 Sep '10, 18:12) Monty Riviera
Perhaps im being a bit new thoughty here,but if Gods spirit made all solid materials in this universe and if we do indeed IN HIM live and move and have our being then isnt the life even in the seed at the start of pregnancy Im looking at this from a bit of an evangelical bible viewpoint and a bit of a new thought way as well. Im beginning to see that all so called soild matter( and we are part solid matter ) is an expression of the all mind.Simple or simpler things being at the lower end of this spectrum and Gods crowning glory humanity being at the top. I struggle with the concept that God waits till a certain age and then sort of puts in or introduces a spirit Hes prepared earlier. Mind you im not saying He doesnt just that im not quite able to grasp that concept.Im more comfortable with the spirit gradually growing as that is at least the way i know nature works.
answered 06 Sep '10, 12:30
Brilliant analogy! I like your reasoning.
(09 Sep '10, 04:29) Inactive User ♦♦
Thank you Vee.I like to equate things with nature where possible as i have a better handle on that,and also its very straight forward and isnt prone to much mis interpretation.
(09 Sep '10, 08:41) Monty Riviera
I agree with Stingray, that the soul enters the body at the first breath. Doctors have always wondered with amazement of the feeling they get holding the baby when that first cry comes out. It is unexplainablly wonderful the body filling with life essence.
On another note, it is my understanding that the soul personality has chosen in advance which baby to infuse. In which the family, culture, social status, traditions, and race will give the soul personality the correct experiences to have.
Karmic balance is a law that will adjust with no favortism, sometimes through many life times. It does it in a manner that is the most beneficial, best time, best condition, that will be the best for all. You may receive a karmic credit or karmic debt two life times from now if it means the most opportune time and conditions to benefit you.
answered 05 Sep '10, 16:46
(06 Sep '10, 05:55) Stingray
I was a member of AMORC years ago. Soul Personality seems to be a great word to describe.
(06 Sep '10, 14:35) RPuls
I have a very true and distinct memory that I have had all my life...I dream about the experience from time to time, and it is always the same. First, let me tell you about the memory, and then I will try and explain what I have deduced from that memory...
I, and a group of dear, dear friends, are standing around a hole in the ground. If we look into the hole, it appears only as a whirling vortex, sucking in matter from the land we are standing upon. I am saying thank you and also good-bye to my dear friends. Suddenly, I am falling down the hole. It is a conscious choice, but it is also a second of decision, and is tinged with both sadness that I am leaving; but I also feel excitement beyond anything I can describe. I have the sensation of going down a spiraling slide. With each turn of the spiral, the light from above grows dimmer. But more importantly, I begin to lose my memory of my life of the above world. Spiral after spiral, I am drawn into darkness that is more and more absolute. At the same time, I try like mad to keep something from that blissful world, but I cannot. I feel myself almost turning into something smaller and smaller, and also feel the pull of weight and a sensation of physicality. Then all goes black.
I have decided, almost reluctantly, that what I have remembered is leaving Heaven to enter into a fertilized egg.
I cannot explain this experience with any other conclusion. I have tried, but the experience was real, and I have had to accept that I felt the beginning of my own life- not as a fully-formed baby, but as a Spirit leaving Heaven and turning into a bit of life- the egg that was fertilized and went on to become me.
If this is true, (and I have shared this with someone else who has had the exact same memory!!!) then it means that the soul enters the egg immediately after fertilization.
I did NOT want to believe this at first, because of the implications and enormity of the conclusion. But, to me, it explains the immediate indications of personality that every mother can see in their newborn child. The fetus, before birth, can hear and taste and is more or less active inside the mother, depending on the personality of that child. I have had four children, and each pregnancy was unique, and each pregnancy gradually gave me clues as to what to expect when my child was born. Katie, my third-oldest, kicked me the most, was very active and very sensitive to outside sounds, especially just before she was born. I remember I dropped a pan lid that made a very loud clatter on the kitchen floor, and Katie was upset for a couple of hours afterwards. I was eight months pregnant at the time. She turned out to be a very active and vivacious child, sensitive and inquisitive even when she was brand-new. To this day, she is the person she was inside of me.
I do not think people want to believe that the soul is there from the beginning. It seems impossible. But I swear to you, I could sense each of my childrens' souls and it felt as though their souls hovered around my belly until the fetus was big enough to "hold" its own soul.
One final note: I also believe that it takes a period of time for the soul to truly get anchored to its body- for some, it is immediate- for others, the soul is more free of the body. I know this because when I was small, I left my body at will, and flew all around, going anywhere I wanted to go simply by thinking about it. I remember the last trip- somehow, I knew it was the last trip out of my body for a while. I felt heavier, more solid and much more invested in the real world...I think that it is or was a Japanese belief that the baby's soul was not truly fixed into its body until forty days after birth. This is interesting. It is something to ponder.
This is a very important question. I will be curious and excited to read all the other answers.
answered 06 Sep '10, 00:46
I perfectly understand you dear, I too am the mother of 4 and carried each differently....Thanks and Blessings
(06 Sep '10, 06:54) daniele
Here is my opinion to your question:
God created man in his own image and likeness, and he breathe the breath of life into man, giving man life. The life in the man is the soul of the man; therefore, the man carries within him the seed of life. God took one rib from the man, and he created the woman to carry the seed of the man in her womb to multiply the human race. The man’s seed is the breath of life the soul, and the woman’s egg is the spirit in her womb for the seed to grow, and develop.
Given, that the man’s seed has life in it, and that the woman’s egg has the spirit in it, therefore at the time the sperm enters into the egg, and the connection of the conception is fertilized, the life/soul of another human being is in full force; and is in the process of awaiting maturation of its physical growth of birth, to take its first breath of life outside of the security of the woman’s womb.
Given, the child in the woman’s womb before birth has life, the soul is intact, and upon the arrival of birth, the child breathes the first breath of air into it’s lungs outside of the woman’s womb to take his place in the physical world.
The only time the soul entered the body through the first breath was when God breathe the breath of life into the first man Adam giving him life. But when a child enters this physical world, and he breathes on his own for the first time outside of the woman’s womb, he is commemorating the gift of life given to man by God!
Having an abortion is taking away the fetus rights to life, therefore the woman, who commits this act, must answer for her deeds. She will be faced with the task of making her own personal conviction, and to take responsibility for her own action. It is not a pleasant situation for anyone to be a part of, especially since we are talking about the rights to life!
There is an old saying: if you do good things, good will follow you in your life, and if you do bad things, bad will follow you in your life, so there is good Karma, and there is bad Karma. It is up to you to choose!
answered 10 Sep '10, 05:22
Inactive User ♦♦
i do not know the time when the little blue light enter the women womb. but that it enter it at anny given time. it will enter it when it wants to and when it is the time for it to happen.but maybe a women could answer this when did she fell it the first time has someone and not has something? and yes life is precious. why would you kill your own child? onless you have a very good reason that could bring the worst for this life i would not do it. experience and enjoy.
answered 18 Nov '11, 02:33
Why would you tell people to "Experience and enjoy" after writing what you wrote? You talked about why one would want to kill her own child then say "Experience and enjoy"? What is there to experience and enjoy about that? Jai & ...
(18 Nov '11, 03:35) Wade Casaldi
well wade you could experience seing the soul enter the womb and incorporating the body. experience and enjoy.
(18 Nov '11, 05:08) white tiger
also the women could tell the time it happen she is the one that has the child in her womb after all. experience and enjoy.
(18 Nov '11, 05:11) white tiger
well wade no answer from you did you understand what i said? or did you get stuck in duality? do you really need to judge my comment did i not said that life is precious and why would you kill your own child? wade where is the wind coming from and where is it going?
(18 Nov '11, 16:42) white tiger
No I mean how can the woman that wants to kill her own baby experience and enjoy life, for her she condemned her self to sadness.
(20 Nov '11, 05:41) Wade Casaldi
yes she did. on less the life of the child would have been a living hell. why judge her? she has free will and have the responsability of her action.she is the one that will live with the consequence of it. do you need to judge her for this? does she not have enuff on her shoulder?
(20 Nov '11, 06:09) white tiger
i know what you said wade did you think i did not?
(20 Nov '11, 06:10) white tiger
wade did i told you once that some time you win and you lose and some time you lose and you win. can you experience that and enjoy it?
(20 Nov '11, 06:14) white tiger
showing 2 of 8 show 6 more comments
Hello daniele, for me life cannot be created or destroyed, only the materialized form ... the unborn child is pure soul and is progressively materialized within the womb and becomes an individual at birth complete with a separate body ... before birth the unborn young is an extension of the mothers body ... having an abortion can have a profound effect on the mother, whether this has an effect on her karma depends on how she copes with the event ... if there is an effect on the karma of the unborn then i feel certain that soul is perfectly capable of dealing with it ... :)
answered 17 Dec '11, 05:33
what is this that we call 'soul',
can it be likened to a lock
all decisions we do
answered 17 Dec '11, 22:36
the soul is started when teh cosnsiesness ask to go, sdosme go to a mother whom has hig probbiblty ot have an abortion or death at birth because they want to have teh in womb exeriance, others eneter at birth or soon b4 it, seth speaks covers this greatly
if i find it i will add
love n light
answered 18 Dec '11, 02:02
TReb Bor yit-NE
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