So, as many of you know, things that make us defensive are one of our best growth opportunities.

I used to spend a lot of my time on a certain internet forum many years ago, and sometimes I would get into long "discussions" (read: arguments) with people about various topics that I was sensitive about.

To give an example, I had a lot of arguments about women's right to be as openly sexual as men as without being thought of as sluts. I'd argue and argue and deliver fact after fact and get so frustrated when the person opposing my view would just ignore my logic and the arguments would go on and on...

Now I realise that this was mirroring my own insecurity about being a sexual woman who had enjoyed having many sexual partners/experiences. I wanted to own my right to be that sexual woman, and I thought I did, but some small part inside me still had beliefs that it was wrong for a woman to be like that, and the people that I would argue with on the internet were just mirroring back that vibration.

Now that I have worked out those issues, I rarely come across situations where people have slut-shaming views, and when I do, it usually doesn't bother me because I am more confident about my sexuality.

That is just one example. I've had many other internet triggers over the years, and fought many pointless arguments that were really just about my own insecurity about my beliefs.

Over the past few years though, it has hardly happened. I've learnt to recognise when I am being triggered, and examine my beliefs before getting involved in the argument. I hardly ever feel the need to convince someone or prove them right, I'm confident in many of my beliefs and I don't need anyone else to validate them for me.

Lately though, I was triggered into an argument again, about two separate issues. I haven't really sorted out what beliefs they are triggering, but I had forgotten how maddening it is to. Really. HAVE. To. Prove. You're. RIGHT. And then getting completely frustrated when your well-thought out arguments are completely dismissed. I thought I had moved past that kind of behaviour.

I think we can all recognise some of this from IQ as well - generally everyone has a "live and let live" attitude, but sometimes commentators get really defensive (or alternately, they try really hard to disprove other's views), and it's pretty obvious that there's a huuge trigger there for them.

What about you? Thoughts, insights? Do you get maddeningly triggered sometimes? Has it led to growth opportunities for you? How do you let go of trying to prove that you're right about something you really, really believe in?

asked 13 Jul '13, 19:51

cassiopeia's gravatar image


What do you mean grow? There is only one, emotionless, logical explanation to everything. Any other explanation would have to be colored by a certain emotion. "The growth" therefore cannot happen past emotionless, it can only happen within the world of emotions, where growing substitute expansion of one's ability to handle the emotions.

(10 Oct '13, 03:12) CalonLan

I think the main reason ppl get defensive is out of insecurity. Another reason ppl get defensive is because their is a grain or two of truth in the attack. For example - if someone said you were fat & you were skinny as a rail, you would laugh. You wouldn't feel a need to defend yourself. It could be a combo of both.

(10 Oct '13, 03:44) ele

"Defensive people believe that their reactions protect them from outside attack. In fact, defensive people are unconsciously trying to shield themselves from their own doubts about their significance, competence or likeability" ~ James Tamm So yes, I believe their is a growth opportunity here. Everything is a reflection - oh, that lovely magical looking glass reflects back..

(10 Oct '13, 03:50) ele

@ele because people don't consider the situations, but their own impression of themselves in that situation instead.

(10 Oct '13, 04:20) CalonLan

@Cal True I'm a bit different. If I feel defensive I'm pretty sure I'm guilty of something. I have no issues accepting fault or responsibility or apologizing if warranted. Once I recognize this & let go of the ego, it's easy. So many ppl cannot give up the need to be right.

(10 Oct '13, 04:29) ele

@ele, cannot give up because in the world built on reputation it seems self-destructive and almost illogical to admit any mistake. It is seen as weakness.

If someone wants to be a winner, he will resist admitting he lost. Because if he did, he might be seen as loser. Short sight and quick judgement of others is what people fear in this scenario. Winner that admits to have lost, is judged as loser. The very same loser, that always loses.

Everyone wants to be a winner at some area..and that...

(10 Oct '13, 05:02) CalonLan the area we care for. Where we involve emotions. Which we try to protect. It is what is propelling our lives forward.

If we didn't care, we wouldn't have emotions towards it, we wouldn't get defensive at all, but we would also not go anywhere in life.

It's said that if you don't know what you fight for, you'll fall for anything. One gotta raise for his cause and go down for it - to have a story to tell our life.

So it's alright to get defensive, to fight for whatever it is you enjoy..

(10 Oct '13, 05:08) CalonLan

..fighting for. If in each step you celebrate the destination you're journey leads to, then it's a step worth taking. Then it is when, your journey becomes the destination. Being in the now.

If you try to resolve every situation where you get defensive, you will move in circles. Eventually depriving yourself of any meaning of life. And although I myself appreciate my ability to perceive connections of causes and consequences without emotions. I rarely practice it. For I'm writing my own story.

(10 Oct '13, 05:17) CalonLan

@cal If someone I care about criticises me, it hurts. If the criticism came from someone else it would bounce right off or I would take it as constructive. It's been rather obvious that you cannot admit to a mistake & apologies don't come easily to you. I don't find any joy in arguing & if the subject matter is not important I will give in. Surrender frees you. You don't have to give any more energy to something which doesn't make you feel good. I disagree, it's not a weakness. Consider it (A)

(10 Oct '13, 05:27) ele

(B) it a strength. Why would you want to give your power away over something inconsequential? Certainly it's normal for ppl to be want to be winners in some area. If you lost at a game of tennis or cards, would you feel like a loser? I know a few guys who absolutely under no circumstances can admit to be wrong. Since I know them well,I know it involves deeply rooted self esteem issues going back to childhood. It's also a protection issue & you're right they do not want to be viewed as

(10 Oct '13, 05:30) ele

(C) losers. They (you) are the only ones who see themselves through this distorted glass. Ok -- as for your last comment - now that circular logic & Circle of Life. Yes, it is ok to feel defensive. I would rather resolve the emotional conflict so history doesn't continue to repeat itself. "For I'm writing my own story." - yes, in the comment sections - because this is the way you want your story told. Not an exact quote - but when I read it, I thought what a poet. Poetry is in your blood.

(10 Oct '13, 05:37) ele

@ele, ye I don't discuss many topics. Because as I said, at the very first comment... There is only one, emotionless, logical way of handling whatever issue. That is the way which resolves the solution in the most effective way.

And in any argument, when given a problem, you can sense whether the person is arguing for the sake of resolving the issue, of for his own sake and the way that he "would" want the issue resolved. I can figure out the former myself, thus no need to discuss...and I...

(10 Oct '13, 05:50) CalonLan

...I shamelessly disregard the latter. If I see emotional involvement of the other person in the argument, I dismiss it as irrelevant. As it leads not to solution of problem at hand, but it leads you in circles to another emotionally colored state/solution, which isn't really a solution to the situation.

Consider this hypothetical situation:

You are flying a space shuttle together with a person who you love very much. This shuttle has been attacked and is hard to control it...

(10 Oct '13, 05:57) CalonLan

... it is on direct collision course with a space station inhabited by hundreds of people. Unfortunate circumstance has it that the life support on your shuttle has malfunctioned and it will not be able to sustain two people before you get anywhere near the station. You are the one that can pilot it, your beloved cannot...

and so here's the dilemma.. Would you kill the one you love to have enough time to divert the course and prevent the shuttle crashing into the station? Or would your...

(10 Oct '13, 06:01) CalonLan

...emotions kick in?

a) If you both stay alive, you will suffocate to death and the shuttle will eventually crash into the station killing hundreds of others. b) if you spare your loved one's life, and kill yourself (because that's what people do, die for their loved ones)..s/he will live..for a while..until the shuttle crashes into the station as s/he not a trained pilot. c) or take the only logical emotionless route.. jetison him/her into space, divert the course and save hundreds of lives?

(10 Oct '13, 06:05) CalonLan

@Cal "There is only one, emotionless, logical way of handling whatever issue" and that being ... not to care? Numbing yourself? As for your saga, C) I understand its the logical choice. - but why is this the emotionless response?

I hate to go; but I must bid you goodnight. I'm headed to be bed & I think we are spamming poor cass's inbox (sorry). Please do respond to my ?'s & anything else you would like to say. I'll talk to you later; but we are getting off topic. Perhaps another thread.

(10 Oct '13, 06:13) ele

I guess, if you imagine the situation I described, maybe you can feel the temptation to give into your emotions. It hits directly into the core of our being...the questions so what do I live for anyway? is brought up at the very moment when the decision have to be made.

To be honest, I'm not sure which option I would choose.

(10 Oct '13, 06:15) CalonLan

@ele, C) you are solving the issue of shuttle crashing into station + saving hundred of lives you don't really care about, and having the one you do care about not surviving. When you don't care, as you pointed out, you have no emotions involved in the case. That is why it's emotionless.

And you are right, we're off the course. Collision course suspension. Haha.

anyway sorry Cass, but I guess it's apparent now I have no emotional involvement in your thread therefore deviating from original...

(10 Oct '13, 06:20) CalonLan

Hey -- me neither -- prob A or we both jump. No, I'd prob sacrifice myself & jump. I wouldn't want someone who loved me to live with the fact he killed me. Nite

(10 Oct '13, 06:20) ele

...question of yours.

@ele, goodnight, sleep well and dreams of sweet, til night is morning, til we meet.

(10 Oct '13, 06:25) CalonLan
showing 0 of 20 show 20 more comments

The only way to get the best of an argument is to avoid it. - Dale Carnegie

I think arguing makes no sense at all once you know for sure that the Law of Attraction is true.

In other words, arguing is just attracting what you don't want even more. Arguing is pushing against, wanting to change and influence things/people through physical action to feel better. But the only thing that matters when you want to change anything is your own vibration/emotion/feeling.

Most of society thinks that it's valuable to argue. They think that arguments are the essential pillars of democracy, human rights, science, cooperation between people and so on...

You have to "fight for your right" they say.

"Don't look the other way" they say.

"Stand up now or you will be next" they say.

But what they don't get is that there is something much, much bigger in that whole picture that influences all of those things they want to change... It's the Law of Attraction.

Most of people don't get that the Law of Attraction influences everything. This is why scientists get different results when they do their studies. Every scientist attracts what he believes to be true.

So once you know that the Law of Attraction exists, you know almost everything. You know more than 99,999% of people. If I were to do a study, then the figure 99,999% would be what I believe so I would get this exact figure out of my study because of the Law of Attraction :).

“I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself” ― Winston Churchill

So arguing is another way of saying "Yes, please give me that thing that I don't want!". The only reason I argue these days is when I'm dumb and not in the Vortex or when I feel good and just want to test what the reactions are :). So I sometimes argue because of the fun of it :).

Just to make things clear...

If you argue because you feel angry, frustrated, disappointed etc. = you attract more of the things you don't want

If you argue because you feel good and you do it because of the fun of it = you attract more fun into your life generally.

But remember that it may be a thin line between those two states. So it's best to avoid arguments completely if you are not sure.


answered 13 Jul '13, 21:28

releaser99's gravatar image


edited 13 Jul '13, 21:55


I totally agree. I have never seen any points in "debates", unless they are the kind where people are willing to listen to each other's opinions, and both learn something more from it in the end (like the style here at IQ). But for the most part, you just get people trying to bash each other with their own opinions.

Usually I am very much like water (incidentally I'm a Cancerian). People always remark how easy-going I am - I just flow around obstacles rather than butting my head into them.

(14 Jul '13, 15:02) cassiopeia

I'm usually not compelled to argue because I know that truth is relative.

Which is why I know, that when I find myself arguing something, there is definitely a trigger there, a false belief that I need to look at closer. also, yes, attracting more of what you don't want, but my main interest is what drives the need to argue your point. When you need to convince others, to get their validation, usually it is because you unconsciously feel insecure about your own Truth. What do you think?

(14 Jul '13, 15:04) cassiopeia

@cassiopeia "When you need to convince others, to get their validation, usually it is because you unconsciously feel insecure about your own Truth. What do you think?" Yes, this is true for me at least and I think also for most of the people I know. As I said, there are rare times when I enjoy arguing for other reasons. But most of the time I feel that when I argue I try to defend my beliefs and feel bad.

(14 Jul '13, 17:06) releaser99

So the basis of that behavior is fear obviously. But I'm sure there are people who argue because that's what they love to do, for example passionate lawyers and politicians. But for me personally at least arguing is a waste of time most of the time because it makes me feel bad. But as always I think everyone has to know for themselves if it makes them feel good or bad. There can't be only one answer that fits everybody IMO.

(14 Jul '13, 17:06) releaser99

@releaser99 - you put it so well, I have nothing to add. Up vote!

(11 Oct '13, 18:30) Dollar Bill
showing 2 of 5 show 3 more comments

I know what you mean about having to prove you are right.

It happens to me all the time. Most of the time if I have no physical evidence to support what I know or intend to do I just give up.

It isn't worth the argument, all that does is gets everyone more angry and strengthens their resolve that they are right and the other is wrong.

So even if I know exactly where I am going and am told I am going in the wrong direction. I'll just go along with it where ever I'm told to go. It is the only way to physically prove that we should have went my way.

If I know that someone is wrong completely but insist she/he is right, l'll just give up. It is not worth the argument even when I'm right.

One thing that does drive me mad is when I have an opinion that is ignored and some friends say the same thing and then that is a good idea!

I think that is a psychological thing. That others must know more than those close to us. We flock to the guy from Austrailia teaching us about healing and self help when probably in his own town no one listens to him! People in our own town that know as much we ignore, "How could he teach anything? I went to school him! I probably know more than him! But wait here is a guy from around the world, he must really be good! Let's go listen to him, he charges $500 he must be good!"

People do the same for doctors, lawyers, anything. It is always the one from out of town people trust as the real thing.

So because of this, I can see why people trust other people rather than those closest as being right and having good advice.

Probably if a complete stranger walked up and said how to straighten out life, he would be taken seriously even if his advice is the exact same as the loved one just ignored.


answered 14 Jul '13, 15:46

Wade%20Casaldi's gravatar image

Wade Casaldi

edited 14 Jul '13, 16:47


You made me think of John, 4:44 - For Jesus himself testified, that a prophet has no honor in his own country. :)

(14 Jul '13, 15:52) Grace

@Grace You just frosted my cake! Exactly even Jesus said it. There is my proof for this at least.... Haha :-)

(14 Jul '13, 16:43) Wade Casaldi

Funny commercial that speaks volumes of what I just said.

Barry might remove it because it is a commercial though.

(14 Jul '13, 17:47) Wade Casaldi

The first guy was not sure of himself. He spoke almost as if he doubted himself. The boss spoke with confidence command and authority. Same words but different feel to these words.

We are most like the first guy in the video but need to be like the second. Believe in ourselves as important and express that so that we are in control.

(09 Oct '13, 14:46) Wade Casaldi
showing 2 of 4 show 2 more comments

I came to IQ and searched for "defensive" (I had an experience this morning that caused me to feel defensive and like I was "doing everything wrong".) I really love the clarity of your own insights about your motivations here. I've had similar experiences - I used to feel a lot of emotional tangles about arguing with people about a certain topic, and I feel much less now. I can see more clearly how the arguing folks are engaged in a co-creative dance together ("Global warming is real and everyone must believe that!" vs "Global warming is a hoax and everyone must believe that!") and also more clearly that I can clear up my own murky defensive feelings and get to a place of "I believe X and I'm so clear about my belief that I don't really care what other people think". (Not that it's always super easy for me, yet.)

I read a thing Stingray said here recently: Your Inner Being is basically telling you (during Vortex alignment) that in order to continue the Vortex alignment, the thought that is kicking you out is one that needs priority clearing.

That really resonated with me. I wonder if this doesn't relate to what you're saying here, that many of us, unconsciously, are defending our positions on topics it would be highly beneficial for us to clean up? I can certainly tell that what happened this morning is something I could stand to mold a little into something I like more. Thanks for this question!


answered 09 Oct '13, 14:19

corduroypower's gravatar image


should I get defensive with someone that does not see, that does not properly split that piece of wood, and cast stone? let me tell you a small story I go to a store to buy a product last week, the guy at the store does not know the product he does not know if he as some and he does not know where it is. finally he as some smaller model but not the one I want so I say to him to forget about it. but he wants to make a sale and is pushing that he can get it in a week I can get the same product in less time at a lower price. so I say to him to forget it. I exit the store and he say ####### thinking about me. I came as a thief in the night to him and he does not know it. what is my problem in all this? if the guy at the store does not know is product and where they are, if he absolutely want to make a sale to get a cut even when he does not have the product and does not want to hear me when I tell him to forget about it. if he is blind and judge other and see them as ####### because of the over flow from is heart and is own reflection on is water. is Anny of this my problem? if he want to die in is sin it is not my problem. it is the choice he made.


answered 09 Oct '13, 20:38

white%20tiger's gravatar image

white tiger

I fully agree, you had every right to defend yourself in that situation. To top it off he is the one to call you that! You had right to call him that! It was his fault not yours.

(09 Oct '13, 21:46) Wade Casaldi

Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn. who is with out sin to cast the first stone? I do not condemn but I tell the truth. many judge after the flesh I judge no man but if I judge my judgment is true. is reflection on is own water is very dark to blaspheme against other people with out seeing is own error. and those people are the same one-

(09 Oct '13, 22:43) white tiger

that gives is salary at the end of the week so he can live in this world. If people would know what he thinks about them would they still buy from that person? then would he not be ashamed of the choice he made that put him in to that situation. do not be surprise at my saying on the last day many will be ashame and if they are not merciful they shall die in their sin. since they will not be able to give them self mercy since they are not able to give other mercy. Behold I come quickly.

(09 Oct '13, 22:52) white tiger

More people need to see the benefits of defense. You walked out and avoided getting into a fight.

Karate is the peaceful path, it is for defense only but if you can avoid the fight all together by walking away, then that is best. It takes a lot of control to walk away. You could have went offensive all over him, "You call me that? That is a perfect description of you!" He yells back and you do to the next thing you know the police are there kicking you out and he is fired both very unhappy.

(11 Oct '13, 14:57) Wade Casaldi

I just saw this happen in Radio Shack with a customer. The customer was very irate, I thought they were going to have to call the police. He had a broken cell phone that they wouldn't replace. It had external damage. They stayed calm explaining multiple times to him why. Finally he stormed out of the store past me. A moment later he stormed back into the store demanding the store corporate number. They gave it to him, he demanded that stores number and the name of the clerk. Then he left finally

(11 Oct '13, 15:12) Wade Casaldi

I just saw this happen in Radio Shack with a customer. The customer was very irate, I thought they were going to have to call the police. He had a broken cell phone that they wouldn't replace. It had external damage. They stayed calm explaining multiple times to him why. Finally he stormed out of the store past me. A moment later he stormed back into the store demanding the store corporate number. They gave it to him, he demanded that stores number and the name of the clerk. Then he left finally

(11 Oct '13, 15:12) Wade Casaldi

That's strange, it shouldn't have posted twice.

(11 Oct '13, 16:45) Wade Casaldi

I will tell you something that have not touch your mind.why should the light become darkness? I am free of my choice and responsible for it other are free of their own choice and are responsible for it. when someone see that is measure is not in truth would he not prefer to use a measure that is in truth? or would he prefer is measure that is not in truth to not show is shame in this world? when he finally discover that nothing is hidden and everyone know that is measure is not in truth would-

(11 Oct '13, 22:06) white tiger

he then deny himself? and use the right measure. then why is he fooling him self and other? he should have stay in the beginning and he would not have tasted death. if one is in the darkness should you answer it with the same folly? Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him. the light shine in the darkness and the darkness does not comprehend it.

(11 Oct '13, 22:25) white tiger

Yes very true. It does none any good to return negative for negative. I remember Jesus said that himself. To love only those that love you back is as good as animals but to love those that even hate you requires conscious choice to stay in the light.

(11 Oct '13, 22:40) Wade Casaldi
showing 2 of 10 show 8 more comments

Sure i have been in that place before where i would try to prove my point. there is no doubt and most humans have gone there. But later when i started to apply the non-judgement, letting go in the beginning it was not easy as my normal habit would make be react. So i started to let Go and accept and move on lets say 2 out 10 times. But in those 2 times i observed that nothign really has happened. I mean it was perfect to let go and not prove my point. I could see that other 8 times i tried to prove my point i actually was wasting my energy... and the 2 times i did let go, i was calm and had a sense of easiness also sense of pureness in it.

So i would ask you to take few diff trigger issues you have and deliberately for couple of them completely go for acceptance, no judgement of others, and just being ok with not being heard and be ok with you not proving your point and having your last word. Then see the difference for yourself.


answered 11 Oct '13, 18:04

abrahamloa's gravatar image


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