I have been asking myself if I believe in choices of our life, before birth and I am siding with the side that we do not.
When I ask questions about life situations that appear to NOT be choices at ANY LEVEL for an individual, I usually get the response, "the situation was chosen by the person before birth".
Does the LOA hinge on this statement?
If this statement were false, then how would this effect the LOA?
Can the LOA still stand strong with the statement being false?
asked 07 Dec '10, 02:45
Barry Allen ♦♦
The question is problematic because it rests on the basis of breaking down the "Law of Attraction" on the basis of a philosophical diversion that (and this is the important part) cannot be proven for the general populace as of now. Which is to say, it is a logical fallacy.
Further, it has no practical considerations for us (who are already incarnated) now. As WE who are alive can be concerned, the "Law of Attraction" stands purely on its merits as it operates in our lives NOW and not as it "might have" or "might have not" during a period most of us cannot recall. Which is my way of saying, if the statement were false - it would have no affect on the LoA as we know and use it.
But let's go further.
As I see it we have a few possibilities.
1) This is our one and only life, our consciousness came into being when we were conceived and will vanish when our brain stops functioning.
2) We existed beforehand, and chose out of our own free will which life circumstances to come into.
3) We existed beforehand, and were forced to be born into a body depending on our "karma", or another consciousnesses (say, God's) will.
4) We existed beforehand, chose to come here, but had no idea what circumstances we were getting ourselves into.
5) We existed beforehand, chose to come here, and were willing to happily accept any circumstances for no particular reason except that we didn't want to wait in line for the polished life.
Now most of these we can't actively prove to others in any real manner.
Possibility #1 has no relation to the question at all. Since LoA is based on consciousness, it does not come into play until our consciousness itself comes into play - after we are conceived. Thus there would be no contradiction to the LoA and the LoA would stand regardless of our birth circumstances.
All the rest rely on the idea that we exist beforehand. But the evidence for this is scarce and fishy at best. For example, past life research has the issue that even when it is accurate there are other means the information could have been obtained, such as through distance telepathy with the minds of others who had been to the places, had the experiences etc.
I know that we existed beforehand though, because I have had personal experiences of the soul, and had numerous out of body experiences occur spontaneously, which I later verified what I had seen with others. This shows consciousness is not limited to our body - and by logical deduction does not require it to exist...and so most probably did exist beforehand. Or at least, can continue to exist after this life. I understand that is not something most have though, but to further explore the question we must follow the presupposition that this is true.
The only one of those that really would question it, is possibility #3. Unfortunately, that one brings so many other presuppositions upon it that to write properly on it would make this WAY too long - and this is already quite long. But let us briefly cover this.
Karma has no opposition to the LoA as it is merely "cause and effect", it is pretty much just another name for LoA. Thus, even in the occurrence that we didn't choose this life but had to experience it due to karma - it is still purely an application of LoA and thus LoA would still stand. In this case, it would be dependent on choice in a round about way - and thus still our choice (although ignorantly).
Further, this presupposes past experiences which affect our consciousness (or us just plain being screwed up from the beginning - but then that is also not against LoA so we will ignore it). If we have had past experiences then there must have been some time where we first incarnated somewhere. In which case, we would have had no "karma" accrued and thus would have had to have CHOSEN or had it forced upon us in that initial moment - which leads us to the rest of #3.
So lets go onto the whole other spirit idea. Now, the general consensus is that God is loving and desires the best for its creation. In such a state, then we can agree that even were it "forced" on us from without, in our knowing of this while dis-incarnate we would happily choose such a life as God selects.
But lets for more completeness sake go on a different presupposition - suppose God (or whatever other spirit) was malicious, hateful, and had full power over us. Sticky territory. Ok so we're forced into a life situation that doesn't match us, according to LoA we would quickly gravitate out of that situation, unless we were considerably entranced by it, OR unless that big mean other consciousness held us there. Now, that would "break" the LoA unless all such consciousnesses had a firm belief in their powerlessness.
There are some logical fallacies in that though - apparently this spirit didn't hate me quite so much as someone who was born with osteogenesis imperfecta. So it is selectively hateful and not completely malicious - otherwise it would impose terrible circumstances on everyone. Or, it apparently has no control over a great many souls - and yet those souls somehow still manage to get into varying degrees of "terrible" - which leaves us either with karma (LoA) or they chose it.
Another presupposition is that there are a few different spirits which push people into life, and some happen to be bastards and a few quite kind. There is no problem in logic I can think of for this presupposition (although, my mind is a bit tired out now).
And if it were true then yes - we had circumstances forced on us and it "broke the LoA". But I hope you can see how really out of the way of ourselves, and complicated we end up having to make things to try and logically conclude that we had no pre-conceptual choice, supposing we existed pre-conceptually (that actually would contradict the LoA).
[I was going to go and analyze all the others, but this is long already and I have dinner to prepare. :)]
I actually realized another quite simple possibility when I woke up. 6 - There is an indiscriminate force which causes us to incarnate. This is actually quite a simple and logically acceptable idea, which cuts out a bit of the above that I said about having to get incredibly complicated first. (But I will leave it there anyway) :) That said though, it still has no practical bearing on the law of attraction as we know it.
answered 07 Dec '10, 06:33
Liam, that was very informative and well written, it gave me a lot to think about. Thank you for taking your time to explain this. It is very helpful and I am sure others will get a lot out of it as well.
(07 Dec '10, 17:53) Back2Basics
Hey Back2Basics, I actually realized another perfectly logical explanation that missed my awareness earlier (which I've added now underneath for you).
(07 Dec '10, 20:12) Liam
I would have thought that LOA being a law would work on you,me or anyone despite ANY belief system or adherance to any part of a belief system.
This can be proved.
Get someone who believes they existed before physical,get someone who believes they didnt,then add a couple of athiests for good measure and all jump of a building.
All of the above will fall to the ground.
Gravity is a principle,it respects no thoughts or ideas,it respects no person above another.
It doesnt care about your beliefs.
Neither does LOA. +
Its a cold hard fact.
It will work for us or against us.
The belief in pre existence before our physical manifestation on planet earth doesnt matter.
If you dont believe this ( and you might be in the majority there) it STILL works.
Its just the way it is.
answered 07 Dec '10, 09:52
interesting perspective..........nice example!
(07 Dec '10, 17:54) Back2Basics
The most honest answer to your question about pre-birth is that no one really knows the whole truth, and most of what we think that we know may very well be a misconception. But of course it is the LOA working to manifest your desire before birth, true or false!
Given that fact, and in my opinion, we are all spirit, before birth, and after birth, we are one, and the same spirit, except in the case of the physical form we are separate individuals, and but still apart of the whole! Before birth our spirit is within the oneness, and then something significant happens and we choose our parents and our book of life appear when we enter into this world.
On the day of our birth we start the journey of our life and what is written spiritually for us to achieve, succeed, and fail at, until it is time to return to our spirit form to start another track record of life. If you believe this is what happens, so be it, if not you are allowed to choose your own reality, or what you believe to be the truth! The LOA will manifest your desire at the moment of birth!
answered 08 Dec '10, 02:04
Inactive User ♦♦
If you are seeing this message then the Inward Quest system has noticed that your web browser is behaving in an unusual way and is now blocking your active participation in this site for security reasons. As a result, among other things, you may find that you are unable to answer any questions or leave any comments. Unusual browser behavior is often caused by add-ons (ad-blocking, privacy etc) that interfere with the operation of our website. If you have installed these kinds of add-ons, we suggest you disable them for this website