How to handle the fact come to know that our free will is not one hundred percent, but there are circumstances and facts that somehow are already determined?

..mathematicians are indicating that some seemingly random physical processes, are actually embedded in math constants unknown to most of us but who question what we call free will.

asked 31 Mar '10, 02:32

Robert's gravatar image


edited 31 Mar '10, 14:02

Vesuvius's gravatar image


Do you have a link or other reference we can look at?

(31 Mar '10, 03:27) Vesuvius


(31 Mar '10, 13:07) Robert

Thanks, Robert.

(31 Mar '10, 14:00) Vesuvius

I suppose you mean that every random process would converge to the "bell" distribution: ...

(26 Jun '10, 16:15) A G
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I looked at your link, and there is not much there except for the conclusions of the author. He does say that you can find order within random data, but that has been a well-known fact for awhile. You can use things like artificial neural networks to find meaningful information within seemingly random data. And chaos theory itself is designed around the fact that random systems are bounded, confined by simple rules called "strange attractors."

As to the nature of free will and determinism, consider what happens when you make a decision. The whole point of making a decision is to reduce possibilities, to say yes to something and no to many other things. That is the root meaning of de-cide: "to cut off." As an example, let's say I want to plant a tree in my garden. Until I actually plant the tree, I have many possible choices. I can choose what kind of tree to plant. I can not plant a tree at all. But once I have planted that tree, all sorts of restrictions on my free will come into play. If I want fruit from that tree I am compelled to provide that tree with whatever specific requirements it has, like water, fertilizer and shade. And if it is a peach tree, I cannot expect to get lemons from it, or any other fruit besides peaches.

The idea that nature is governed by math is not new either. The author of the link you provided is merely stating one specific case of a possible "golden constant," but there's nothing novel about that; there are many, many things in nature that are deeply rooted in the beauty and grace of mathematics, the simplest of which I can think of is the growing of crystalline structures.


answered 31 Mar '10, 13:58

Vesuvius's gravatar image


The point I wanted to observe was not exactly the golden constant, known to many as PHI or 1.618033 .... My attention was directed to the constant 1.13198824 which was calculated using fractals .The difference, from my point of view is not based on the simple fact that, it is not so simple, to find order in chaos, but as you read on the link, the discovery of this constant proof DEFINITE CONCLUSIONS that can be drawn from the random data.In your expose about planting trees, each decision you make, plant or not plant it would be like the fall of the coin heads or tails

(31 Mar '10, 20:24) Robert

face> plant Seal> not to plant. After you make the decision, whatever it may be, would come the restrictions of which you speak, but these would be like a fractal, no matter how many times you get bigger, always have the same dimension, and that constant is what can not be escape from, although believing in the free will acting .No matter what your decision and its consequences, if you analyze mathematically the value is rounded to 1.13198824. greetings.

(31 Mar '10, 20:25) Robert

I guess my question would be, why does this constant matter? How does it contribute to your understanding of free will? Nature has demonstrated many times over that it follows a precise, mathematical structure, but just because it does, does not make any difference to free will. The only way it might make a difference is if you wanted the constant itself to be some different number. In that case, I don't think the universe would oblige. But that's not going to affect your decision about what to eat for dinner tonight, or any other decision you make that is relevant to your life.

(31 Mar '10, 20:58) Vesuvius

is true that the constant can not affect my decision to eat chicken or fish for dinner, but in a world ordered by computer systems, some decisions are relevant and actually affect the lives of every living thing on the planet, are evaluated and calculated using mathematical and numerical constants. Hence why, from my point of view, if matters.Jef Rasquin, one of the creator of Apple Macintosh computer said once> Human logic was Forced on us by the physical world and is therefore consistent with it. Mathematics derives from logic. This is why mathematics is Consistent with the physical world.

(31 Mar '10, 23:23) Robert

by the way,chicken for tonight,,jaja Regards

(31 Mar '10, 23:29) Robert
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