My much older brother sexually abused me when I was a child. My regressed memories did not surface until the age of 35. As my brother is a judge, and view by many to be above the law, it appears he will not be accountable for what he has done to me or others. A good friend recently told me she believes this is Karma...that I should forget about what happened and for me not to assist other abuse victims with recieving treatment.
Is childhood sexual abuse Karma...and are all abuse victims being repaid for abusing someone in a previous lifetime? Also, should abusers go unpunished. My abuser told me not to speak of anything "Moral" to him. Is revenge/punishment against someone that cannot be proscuted by the law justified?
asked 08 Jun '10, 21:06
Barry Allen ♦♦
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Thanks for sharing your question. From the age of 12 till the age of 17 I was sexually abuse by a friend of my mother and father; he was a Preacher and a Teacher. I in many ways ran away from home at 17. I joined the army and stayed away from home until I was 33. All the bitterness and other negative feelings I experience maybe you can imagine.
The first week that I returned home my sister was driving me around the community and presenting me to family and friends whom I had not seen for nearly 15 years. One day she stopped in front of this large brick home I asked who are we visiting now. She said Lewis. My brain stopped. I had no blessings of suppressed memories. I had hid in the woods across from his home with my rifle. I could not pull the trigger. I did not want to enter into the presence of this person... At 25 I thought I was over all this.
Quietly I walked behind my sister, wondering if she suspected anything. At the time she was a Pentecostal Christian and I was non-denominational. Entering into the living room, I saw a frail man aged with a catheter and other medical necessities. My heart could not rejoice at the suffering I saw before me. I sat and we talked without any references to the past. Kids were cooking crack in his kitchen. I saw a bible as we were leaving, asked him if he read it, and told him I would pray for him.
Months later, he was arrested for possession of cocaine; his house was located in a school zone. He was sentenced to 15 years and a day, meaning there was no possibility of parole.
In 2005 I moved to Germany and had a dream that he was under a sheet shaking and mourning. I call home and was told he had died in the prison. Did I feel good about any of his suffering? No. I forgave him in the Christian sense, and as a Christian Mystic (If there is a term to describe my many beliefs and truths in this life) I believe in Sacred Contracts; what he did to me worked out to make me a stronger person.. Take away any of my experiences AND I WOULD NOT BE WHO I AM.
Bitterness, hatred, unforgiving will hurt you, not the person it is aimed at. Revenge will not make you feel better. You can feel better because you are love. You are here to discover yourself and the powerful potential that is within us. Freedom comes from the higher positive emotions. Be free and enjoy your life. At the end of all my message is this: "Experience is not what happens to you. Experience is what you do with what happens to you. Stay positive and change the world."
answered 09 Jun '10, 14:07
Thank you for sharing such a painful experience. Forgiveness is the key to healing. And I agree, It is not what happens to us in life, but how we handle what happens to us. You are a very wise soul. Thank you again. Love and Blessings to you.
(09 Jun '10, 15:16) GS415
Thanks for sharing your story. I am reminded of a girl I knew when I was younger. She was the most positive, upbeat person you could imagine. One day I asked her what her favorite book was, and she told me "The Pigman" by Paul Zindel. So I obtained a copy and read it. Oh my, what a relentlessly depressing book that was! Your description of the old man reminded me of the Pigman's life, and the quiet desperation he must have felt. I lost touch with the girl, but I am haunted by the thought of why she was so drawn to the book, and what her cheerful exterior must have been hiding.
(30 Nov '10, 18:29) Vesuvius
We have discussed Karma here before.
I do not believe that a person has to pay through many lifetimes. Learning over many lifetimes is the same as learning in the same lifetime. How many times do you have to retake a class? How many times do you have to learn the same lesson? How many times do you have to keep banging your head against the wall?
As many times as are necessary. Or, to put it another way, as many times as you choose.
Some people here believe that you choose your overall life circumstances before you were born. If that is true, then perhaps trans-life karma is about making the choice of making amends. Or perhaps it is about trying to learn the lesson again. But you are only imprisoned for as long as you believe you are, or as long as it takes for you to choose to learn the lesson.
For many of us, the hardest thing is not learning something new, it is letting go of a cherished belief that happens to be wrong.
answered 09 Jun '10, 03:20
I concur - others hurt us and we then continue to let them imprison us by holding on to what happened - letting go is the only way to move on.
(09 Jun '10, 12:42) Michaela
GS: You have been posting many questions about revenge, and now I am beginning to understand why.
What was done to you by your brother was a terrible, terrible thing, and I understand and can emphasize because this happened to me, too! My uncle was/is the head of a Satanic Cult, and I was abused and tortured in so many ways that it would give you PTSD just to read about it. I was unable to confront him, and unable to tell my whole story to my family- what I did tell ripped my family apart forever.
I am so sorry that this thing happened to you. But revenge is NOT the answer!!! I am so sorry to say this, but it is not possible for you to ever "get even" for what he did. Did you hear me???
You will never, ever be able to change the past, nor be able to feel satisfaction through revenge.
Why not?, you ask? Look what he did to me! I see you. I see your pain. I see your anger.What I am NOT seeing is grief. Under all of this rage is pure, unadulterated grief. Your obsession with revenge is in your head so that you do not have to face your grief.
You need to cry.
You need to write about it.
You need to find others who have been abused, and share with them.
But mostly, you need to give yourself permission to grieve. You were robbed of your innocence, your mind, your whole personality, all of it. These are things worth grieving about.
Now, I cannot think of a single instance where revenge is justified. Not one. Your desire for revenge is, in this case, a huge obsession that you think will make you feel better. What WILL make you feel better is to grieve, and cry, and do artwork, and to talk to a professional. Stop posting questions about revenge- revenge is unlawful and wrong. It will not change the past, nor will it make you feel better. You want release from your pain. I have told you what to do. If you need someone to talk to, email me. THAT would be constructive.
Blessings, and prayers for your recovery, Jaianniah
answered 09 Jun '10, 01:51
Sorry to tell you this but this is my first time posting, so you have never view a question by me. Possibly someone else.
As I have come to terms with what has happened, I like many other survivors of childhood sexual abuse look for legal remedies to offset the years that have been taken. This is one reason the Catholic church paid out so much money in damages. As I stated, my brother is a judge...a great challenge to overcome in the legal system, as he is the legal system.
My question was is this Karma, as my friend seems to think.
Thank you for your response.
(09 Jun '10, 03:11) GS415
If you have come to terms with it, why do you speak of revenge?
(09 Jun '10, 03:15) Vesuvius
Vesuvius, thank you for your response. Some might think seeking restitution legally would be a type of revenge as this matter would be brought to public. It would be "paying for a crime". My intention is to seek monetary damages for years of subsciously harming myself. To rebuild my life, and the lives of my children as they have also been sexually abused. The LOA works for both positive and negative..Abuse victims attract abusers. I married 2 abusers which sexually abused my daughters.
(09 Jun '10, 03:33) GS415
Additionally, if we are to forgive and just let things go, why do we civil/criminal justice system? Why do we hold people responsible for violations?
(09 Jun '10, 03:37) GS415
@ Jai - I agree that the feelings need to be expressed through grieving, creativity etc.
(09 Jun '10, 12:39) Michaela
GS, I got you mixed up with somebody else- I apologize profusely for that. I hope that my answer helped you anyway. I am sorry about the mix-up. Jai
(13 Jun '10, 19:30) Jaianniah
showing 2 of 6 show 4 more comments
I just left answer to another question by quoting the dao and the next quote under I think might help you.
I found this translation too Tao Te Ching: Chapter 79 translated by J. H. McDonald (1996)
answered 09 Jun '10, 10:10
I don't think there is any justification for revenge. This is in no way intended to minimize the abhorrent actions of your brother. However, when you continue to seek revenge, you are continuing to hold on to that past incident in your present moment and it continues to hurt and have power over you.
The only way you can really move on and take back your power is to forgive or let go. This is not to say that you cannot direct that energy, which is caught up in those feelings of revenge, to a more positive plateau where you can help other victims of child abuse. You can seek justice which is totally different from revenge - the motivation behind seeking justice is to prevent others being abused and even prevent the abuser from continuing to hurt himself ( which he is doing ) as opposed to seeking revenge, which is merely the ego's way of trying to get even.
answered 09 Jun '10, 12:36
This is a great answer. Justice. As a healthcare provider, I see the effects of childhood sexual abuse on a daily basis. Often, many experience repressed memories, as I did. Many go to adulthood and beyond attracting negative situations in their lives not knowing why.This subject remains hidden in families for various reasons, social, economic, etc. Forgiveness is necessary for healing. But, justice is necessary for prevention and treatment.And, personally I do not believe childern that are abused are dealing with karma.
(09 Jun '10, 14:01) GS415
Every person is different. It is a mistake to think that just because something worked for you, it will work for others. Karma does not always exist. Quite often the strong devour the weak, and there is nothing the weak can do about it. Some people do find revenge is the only thing that takes away their anger. Many survivors of sexual abuse find BDSM theraputic. Instead of taking revenge on the person who hurt them, they role play. Some survivors say role play will not help them, that only taking revenge on the person who hurt them will enable them to vent their anger. I know many survivors who felt this way, then found they could vent their anger in role play. If you tell yourself something will not work, and refuse to even try it, chances are it will not work. For more information, you can contact me at advanpropcons at aol dot com.
answered 22 Aug '11, 19:16
When someone is abused, anger is created. People who tell the abuse victim wanting revenge is wrong are just inflicting more abuse on survivors. Anger from abuse can either be directed inwards or outwards. Because most survivors never had the ability to direct their anger outwards, because our society condemns revenge, most survivors (especially female survivors) are forced to swallow, internalize, and repress their anger. Male survivors are much more likely to go through life directly their anger outwards. Females who lack testosterone are much more likely to internalize their anger and become martrys. They often seek out abusive males and abusive relationships. When anger is turned inwards it turns into self-hate and depression. Survivors often cut their arms, and engage in all kinds of self-desructive behavior. If they can't hurt the person who hurt them, they direct all that anger at themselves. Anger like energy does not magically disappear. When survivors are not allowed to hate the person who hurt them, their only alternative is to hate themselves. This is not a conscious choice, this is just the way human psychology evolved. A lot of survivors tell themselves they have gotten over their abuse, they have moved on with their lives, and they are no longer effected by their past. Survivors say they don't want to be defined by their past, but one way or other none of us can escape our past. Once you scratch the surface of a survivor who claims to have moved on, you find all those emotions still roiling and simmering like a lake of hot magma beneath the Earth's crust. Indeed, survivors are prone to anger management issues. From time to time their repressed, bottled-up anger explodes like a volcano or vents itself, just like volacanos vent between major eruptions. Survivors are always hurting the ones they love, their significant others, their children, their dog, whoever they can hurt. Too many survivors abuse their own animals which they claim to love, without even realizing they are doing so. They often justify their abuse. Often the hurt they cause is emotional which can be infinitely more hurtful than physical abuse. Females are much more likely to express their anger in verbal abuse and emotional abuse, then in physical abuse or sexual abuse. Verbal abuse and emotoinal abuse can actually be worse than physical abuse or sexual abuse. Repressed, bottled-up anger festers. Survivors can forgive their perps intellectually. They can say they were sick and couldn't help themselves. But that does not make them feel any better. Some very sick people equate the revenge survivors wish to take on their perps with the actions of the perp. They are unable to differentiate between an adult hurting an innocent child, and an victim punishing a guilty adult. Some people believe in an avenging God. They believe their tormentors will burn in Hell for all Eternity. Such people are more evil than those who just want simple revenge. They want God to do their dirty work, and they are not satisfied with mere retribution but seek Eternal torment on their perps. Because God is avengeing their wrong, they feel they are not responsible. They soothe themselves believing their perps will suffer horribly in some afterlife. In fact, these people often believe in God, so they themselves don't have to deal with the injustices of this world. They expect God to exact revenge on their behalf. How silly is that? No loving, forgiving God would be the tool of small-minded petty people. If Karma existed so many selfish, greedy, self-centered people would not live so well their entire lives, and so many good, kind, altruistic people would not suffer their entire lives. There are many constructive ways for survivors to release their anger. If you are interested in discussing this subject with me further, you can email me at advanpropcons at aol dot com.
(24 Aug '11, 16:06) Frank Truth 1
frank i do not believe i experience and i have seen in this life people doing wrong for along time and eventually they have paid and it was not always related to who they did it to. god does not revenge you he is a just judge. if you live by the sword you will die by the sword.Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand.Cain said to the LORD, "My punishment is more than I can bear
(26 Aug '11, 03:24) white tiger
Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me." But the LORD said to him, "Not so; if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over." Then the LORD put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him.So Cain went out from the LORD's presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.
(26 Aug '11, 03:27) white tiger
Most successful people achieved success by being selfish, self-centered, stingy, greedy, by walking over others, taking advantage of others, etc. Sometimes selfish people go too far, violate the law and are punished for it. But there are plenty of of kind, good-natured, hard-working people who suffer their entire lives, and even more selfish, self-centered people who take advantage of others who live happy, contented lives. Most people who live by the sword do not die by the sword. You have been reading too many fairy tales, and watching too many Hollywood movies. The story of Cain and Able is a fable.
(24 Oct '11, 18:49) Frank Truth 2
I like your answer. Interesting as well as insightful. Hope to see you on IQ again.
(09 Jan '13, 00:08) ele
showing 2 of 5 show 3 more comments
Because I do not subscribe to the belief of 'karma', I hope you will permit me to bring some Biblical perspective to the issue of vengeance and child abuse. These vile, disgusting, and unjustifiable actions of abuse exist because there is EVIL in the world.
MESSAGE TO ABUSERS
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. [Jeremiah 17:9,10]
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man. But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. [James 1:13-15]
Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. [Hebrews 10:30,31]
MESSAGE TO ABUSE VICTIMS
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. [Matthew 11:28,29]
Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. [Matthew 18:10]
And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. [Mark 9:42]
Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. [Romans 12:21]
As you can see from the scripture verses above, GOD Almighty is always ready, willing, and able to comfort innocent abuse victims. Conversely, GOD Almighty also has some harsh punishment for the abusers. Whether the abuser is a respected judge, a preacher, a stranger, or any family member, please remember that vengeance and/or justice will never completely heal the abuse victim. As already mentioned in some previous posts in this forum, the true healing must come from within the heart in the form of forgiveness. The abuse victim will then be able to sever the bondage of the coils of bitterness caused by his own personal suffering and productively counsel and assist other abuse victims. My heart truly goes out to all abuse victims, and I pray they would give GOD Almighty a chance to heal, comfort, and restore their tortured souls.
Thanks for reading.
answered 10 Jun '10, 21:51
Dearest Concerned Citizen, I think All abuse victims will find your words to be of comfort. But I must say, many abusers have themselves been abused. As I have seen many die from sustance abuse, violence, and other destructive behaviors, I have come to understand this issue to be the underlying cause. I too, do not believe this to be Karma placed on the innocent. I pray and seek healing for All.
(10 Jun '10, 23:09) GS415
Hello, GS415... You are correct in your observation. Many abusers have indeed been abused themselves. The tragedy is that they have never been able to remove the suffering and torment in their souls. Thus, they lash out in anger towards others or spiral in self-destruction. My post above was just a reminder that healing and restoration is possible if they would give GOD a chance. I know it is easier said than done. However, I have seen many testimonies of abusers being healed through GOD's promises. Like you, GS415, I also seek healing for all! Thanks for reading.
(11 Jun '10, 12:17) Concerned Citizen
I do believe that a man will reap what he sews! But in the same token, we each have to answer for the good, and the bad that is a part of us. Given that fact, we cannot continue to be hard on ourselves for the things that we did wrong, and how we could have done them differently!
I hear your pain, and your misfortune, and it is unfortunate that nothing was done legally. Bear in mind no one is above the law, not even the judge, because the laws are written and it is the same for everyone. Of course I understand that the abuser does not like to adhere to the law, but if there are exposed, and tired in the court of law, the punishment is the same for all criminal acts based upon the order. It is not too late to seek justice, if you want to do something. It is better to stop the behavior, before it escalates, when in fact you can save the day.
It is one thing to forgive someone, but that does not mean that you cannot take legal action against them to protect yourself! Also things happen in life that we sometimes have no control over good, and bad, but what is important is how we handle these situations as a whole, and what we can do to make it better. Everyone’s circumstances are different in life, so we will each speak from a different perspective therefore it is up to you to decide how you want to proceed.
I am quite sure you will be able to make the decision that is right for you, and remember that you cannot turn back the hands of time, but perhaps you can make this world a better place by doing your part. My prayers are with you!
answered 01 Dec '10, 04:06
Inactive User ♦♦
I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to get revenge and if you can sue them or have the abuser pay for what they did - I say go for it. I was abused severely by my father and if I could I'd take everything he had and leave him homeless on the streets. However, it is impossible to ever obtain justice because what was taken from us is not able to be repaid. I agree that the best thing to do is to grieve the loss and move on with your life. The whole Karma thing, in my opinion, is wrong. I don't think for one second that the reason I was repeatedly raped was due to me doing something wrong in another life - it's ridiculous to even assume such a thing.
answered 09 Jun '10, 07:08
I agree. Thank you.
(27 Nov '10, 04:32) GS415
Byron Katie "The Work" is wonderful. Go through the process and you will be fine.
answered 09 Jun '10, 21:05
RPuls, Thank you for the link. I had the opportunity to visit the site and I think this is worth exploring. Again, thank you for responding with a solution based answer. Love & Blessings to you
(10 Jun '10, 02:31) GS415
I read your post and i too can relate. my step father who was told was my real father until i was 8 molested for many nites out of many years.No justice was done to him and he still lives his life in peace. Ive forgiven him and i don't have resentment toward him...because ive turn that resentment into destructing myself. i have ran away, became homeless at young and have been addicted to heroin and coke for the last 5 years. i feel like the scars on my arms are from him but i am the one who is too suffer punsihment for my addiction, as badly and as much as i want to quit is how just as badly i cant stop. And im starting to believe that this karma thing is punishing me. I have dreams all the time about murder, rape and evil sex. i hate it..and i hate SEX all of it. and when i do have sex is when i need the money for the heroin, and i again deal with evil perverts...but i blame myself for this. but anyways looking into it it says i must have been a monster in my past life...sigh i yearn so badly of a child like innocence. what the hell did i do?! anyways i understand you. i would like some help or answers too! God bless you and i pray for all my troubled sisters.
answered 19 Jul '10, 02:06
Katy, I do understand how the resentment can turn inward. It happens to many. You can turn this around and be of great assistance to others. Together we can make a difference, this I believe in my heart. Please know you are in my thoughts and in my heart today and everyday.
(20 Jul '10, 00:07) GS415
Know that you are Loved!
(20 Jul '10, 00:09) GS415
their are 2 kind of law: the men law and the divine law. if you escape the first you will not escape the second. as for revenge it will not make you happy on the long term. if you live by the sword you will die by the sword. do not judge or you will be judge with the same mesure. do i need to say more ?
experience and enjoy
answered 23 Aug '11, 02:43
white tiger, your words are accurate for revenge and/or retribution only perpetuates negative energy and that will return in time to the initiator to be balanced; as it will also occur to the perpetrator of the abuse.
(24 Aug '11, 00:11) fred
Childhood sexual abuse is Karma as long as it effects your life decisions. Oprah was raped at age 9. Where is she now? How many people love her? Did it stand in the way of her life? or did IT Strengthen her?
You said he's a judge and above the law. Nobody is above the Law, he is a servant of the Law. Now lets say you punished him and took revenge, and gave him a great damage. Lets say you destroyed his life. Can this change your PAST? Can you take back your childhood? Only thing you can accomplish is to be far more worse than him and destroy another person's life because you believe it is justified.
So the problem clearly isn't Karma, its hate and anger. You cant just dump anger and say I'm not going to stop hating and love him.
Just because the mind suddenly pops out a regressed memory doesn't mean you have to react on it or think about it. Do your best not to be plagued by that thought. But you have to grow more bigger than the problem, you have to say to your self, what happened has happened. I cant change my past, past is what it is, it is going to stay this way as long as I live. I cant erase it. I'm going to accept my past as it is and do what I do now, RIGHT.
Analyze your life and learn how it strengthen your character. Let it not be a weakness, it isn't btw. :)
answered 08 Jan '13, 00:13
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Abraham's view of Karma: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEXJb4-iBm0
Abraham is hardly a good source of spiritual instruction. But she's a good comedian. Makes people laugh and speaks about things that she doesn't understand and ever could never understand. Strange thing is Pythagoras also accepted the doctrine or Karma and preached it to his students.But as an answer to the question, it would be very best to stand in the practical to solve life's problems, than going into some abstract study and immunize your self against pain/God/Karma and pay for them later.