This question is marked "community wiki".

I have tried warning many on this site about the dangers of using Law of Attraction. As usual many treated me scornfully, some pseudo-spiritual giants, laughed at me, some thought that I'm here to damage their positive aspect of life, some tried showing in their full extent, how much they know about spirituality(regardless of what they should be knowing).Some thought that I AM wasting their time. **But I would like to leave this for anyone, who would need it in the future. - This is my last post here.** 12/19/2012

Law of Attraction

The theory of Law of Attraction is based upon thought (imagination) and belief (faith). When thought is infused with faith, it has a prayer like power.

About the infusing Imagination with Faith:

"Imagination can get out of hand even in the common place, yet alone the unusual " "Individual can get deep in to a world of imagination, that can gradually and inevitably change in to a world of terrors."

"Faith is a wonderful thing. But when you put it in wrong places, and wrong things are believed in, it can be very costly in terms of health and happiness and life"

"These things have their mysterious negative factors we have to watch for constantly." ~ Manly P Hall

Karma and Law of Attraction

Many modern metaphysical organizations are practicing sorcery and do not know it. A sorcerer is a person who attempts by some special art to divert the forces of nature to his own personal ends. All forced growth is sorcery. Any individual trying to dominate his environment without rising above it is a sorcerer.People who attempt to use religious exercises for monetary gain, to lift mortgages, or to get rid of undesired relatives are sorceress. The true purpose of metaphysics is to perfect inner self in wisdom, virtue, and understanding, and any other use of metaphysical power is likely to result in black magic. The black magician may enjoy a temporary material success, but he is making a heavy karma that have to be paid in future in terms of misery and suffering.

Sincere students are warned against the dangers of ritualistic entanglements. The modern religious world is full of formulas. While these formulas have their place (as shadows of facts), it is presumed that true mystic has outgrown the necessity for participating in religious fables. Every type of formula from the "Om" formula of the Hindus to the "Peace, power and plenty" affirmation of the popular psychology belongs to a type of ritualism which can be very detrimental if accepted as the substance of reality.

Manly P. Hall

asked 18 Dec '12, 13:38

mastermind2's gravatar image


edited 08 Jan '13, 01:10

Barry%20Allen's gravatar image

Barry Allen ♦♦

@Satori My motivation...

(18 Dec '12, 13:59) mastermind2

You are appreciated :) There are many who just don't agree- at the same time, don't forget that many people read through IQ, yet are not active participators. I'm sure many have read your posts and appreciated you.

I don't think the majority of us look down on you or dislike you. I have enjoyed you being here, you brought something new to the table and have given us all a new way to look at things. Whatever we choose to believe after that is up to each of us individually.

All the best to you!

(18 Dec '12, 14:04) LapisLazuli

@mastermind2, farewell then. May you enjoy your journey wherever it leads you :-) sorry i couldn't relate more to your warnings, if that were your expectations, but i dont actually practise LOA at all

(18 Dec '12, 14:07) CalonLan

@mastermind2 LapizLazuli has said it perfectly.

(18 Dec '12, 14:41) Catherine

@Mastermind2- Thank you for answering my question. I'm sure your very genuine in your concern for us and I appreciate it. The thing about LOA is, it doesn't differentiate between right and wrong. It simply matches so you will always find evidence to support your beliefs. You get to be right in your YOUniverse. Just ask yourself "Are these beliefs I hold serving me"? If they are serving you well then more power to you. Who cares what anyone else thinks?....

(18 Dec '12, 15:03) Satori

@Mastermind2- If not then why not choose something more empowering to believe in. Sorry to hear you have decided to leave IQ but I wouldn't shut the door completely. This site has a way of drawing you back. Wishing you well.

(18 Dec '12, 15:04) Satori

@MM2 Best Wishes on your life's Journey ♥♥♥

(19 Dec '12, 05:44) Starlight

Mastermind2, even though I am new to IQ I really appreciate you answers and comments there always resonate with me. I hope you reconside it leaving but if you don't I wish you well.

(19 Dec '12, 08:08) Manny

@mastermind2-I see these forums as living,breathing loa in action where we grow and learn about ourself from each other.However if you are no longer having fun discussing things then I understand.Hope to see you again here having fun.One of us can share from our own experience and strength however we arent responsible for other persons to grow at the speed of our choosing,thats even if they decide to grow at all.Some people are not as spiritually minded as we are here on IQ.I enjoy everyone here

(19 Dec '12, 08:53) clearheart

@mastermind2 , you've given us a couple of clips from Manly P Hall

I'd like to share this with you and I hope you take the time to listen to it .............. given with love ♥♥

Gregg Braden "Feeling is the Prayer"

(20 Dec '12, 19:40) Starlight

Thank you all :) I wish a happy week for you all!!

(23 Dec '12, 13:29) mastermind2

GREAT edit Barry Allen!

(08 Jan '13, 22:13) ele

Just read the question Mastermind 2, or rather the leaving statement. When u say the dangers of using LOA i assume you must believe its real,valid and a plain fact. If we use it it must work right? It seems a shame to lose a contributor to a forum who buys into much (and i didnt say all) of whats talked about here. Im hoping youll be back soon. Ive dipped in and out of this forum many times myself.

(15 Jan '13, 03:41) Monty Riviera
showing 0 of 13 show 13 more comments

@Mastermind2 - You are welcome to stay and you are welcome to go -and- welcome to come back again.

Would ask you one question, Did you get what you came here to get?



answered 20 Dec '12, 16:55

Dollar%20Bill's gravatar image

Dollar Bill

edited 28 Dec '12, 09:03

But Bill, wasn't that the reason he left?

Who did he scare? Unless I missed a few answers & comments, his entire first paragraph is false.

Odd, you & I both thought he could be a troll; but I viewed him as positively humorous & you viewed him as negative & of no value...

I have to say, he made a few valid points . My first reaction tends to be laughter when I hear anything preposterous... Mirror, Mirror . . . perhaps we both have an inner troll. lol

(22 Dec '12, 04:22) ele

Bill, you know the saying "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are"? So I'm going to tell you, unlike you I do not look at the universe and every single thing I do, with the thought "What do I get out of this?" - May be to you the universe is a place of exploiting and personal advantage. BUT I DIDN'T COME HERE TO GET ANYTHING, I CAME HERE TO GIVE.

(23 Dec '12, 13:19) mastermind2

If you think I'm stupid, I accept, you can call me a fool, idiot, troll, ignore me or do anything you like, but don't judge me with that measurement, where "people always work for some kind of a private profit". - I'm sorry if I said here anything to offend you.

(23 Dec '12, 13:22) mastermind2

@ele - Thank you! Humorous is better. I like the part about the "Inner Troll." We do all have them (very big grin!) And I agree with you, he did make a few valid points.

If a statement is true, it is true and worth considering.

If it is false, it is false, it is meaningless and not worth considering.

I care more about what I think about someone than what they think about me.

(23 Dec '12, 16:59) Dollar Bill

@Dollar Bill

Back-at-ya! Am I the only one who cracked up when SR gave one of the best one liners ever? I choked on my drink & ended up having to clean off my computer screen!

mm2 is arrogant (no disrespect intended) & young & he deserves to be challenged especially when he states something which is not true. I could sense positive energy & I think Lapis, Satori, Rob (Treb), etc sensed it too. I feel he has a good heart & has much to share - be generous; it's Christmas.

(24 Dec '12, 03:04) ele

@Dollar Bill

You are the psychic here, as well as one of my fav members; your opinion matters to me - so feel free to tell me anytime what you think.

WTS, do you want to take my question, or should I fire up the ol' Ouija Board? <smile> I'm better at feeling , seeing , hearing & yes, smelling energy. You never cease to amaze me - practicing psychic! <cool>

Merry Christmas to you & Dollar Ann. (that was funny - loved it)

(24 Dec '12, 03:05) ele


I really do like you; but if you continue to say things about Bill which are not true & not warranted, I will change my mind. Bill has EARNED RESPECT both here & in real life. I would appreciate it very much if you showed him some. I know it does not matter to him; but it does to me.... to be cont ...

(24 Dec '12, 03:06) ele


I think you could learn a lot here & others have said how much they appreciated your contributions & we can learn from you also. As the Traveller said "This site is NOT all about LOA". I have many questions for you & would enjoy hearing your thoughts.

(24 Dec '12, 03:08) ele


I forgot to ask . . . what exactly brought you back ? LOA? Attraction is a very powerful energy!

Or Why?

(24 Dec '12, 04:01) ele

@ele - I do not think he is as much negative as inappropriate to IQ. We, here, work with the LOA, Joy, and vibrational alighment. Turning on the light. I see no reason to focus on darkness as he does.

@barry allen - I was trying to edit my comment, under my post and accidently turned it into an answer. Could you please turn it back?

(24 Dec '12, 09:04) Dollar Bill

I have studied many disciplines, including Vodun (VooDoo), which is a fascinating, and sophisticated religion in its purest form.

I have some strong Christian friends, and I feel it would be bad manners - in my world - to subject them to my thoughts on Voo Doo. I bond better and more appropriately by couching the LOA in Christian terms.

(24 Dec '12, 09:05) Dollar Bill

@ele "what exactly brought you back ?" You! brought me back! :) "Why?" 50% to talk with you, and other 50% to answer the other posts left here by everybody..

(24 Dec '12, 12:51) mastermind2

@dollar bill With all due respect, if you have light, why are you worried about the darkness that I might cast? Isn't Yin a part of Yang? I in no way doubt your spiritual knowledge. I just don't appreciate much, the way you open a door out for me and show it with your eyes, without asking me to leave. Eg: "That is OK on other forums".

(24 Dec '12, 13:42) mastermind2

@Dollar Bill

as for my first comment, I didn't look at it after it was posted. Evidently when I put (big grin) it did something to the type & left out the grin & it's too late to edit & whatever else was lost in translation or I forgot.

I am replying to the comment which arrived in my inbox. You made a valid point. I was NOT laughing at the suggestion of fear mongering; which I think (unlike you) is NEVER appropriate on ANY internet site.

The ONLY darkness I see here, is within you.

(26 Dec '12, 22:31) ele

@ele - within me?

(27 Dec '12, 04:31) Dollar Bill

@Dollar Bill


What is even worse, is you aren't even 'aware' of 'it'. I looked at it from all angles; I even made a joke about it, trying to see 'it' in a different light. By far, it was the MOST offensive remark you ever made on IQ.

(27 Dec '12, 16:58) ele


as for comments to me, which you deleted. I meant arrogant is a good way. Promise! No matter what was thrown at you; you remained calm & courteous & always had an answer. You genuinely make me smile.

answer - it goes w/o saying; I don't agree with you most of the time; but you have the right to voice your opinion & possibly persuade others.

(27 Dec '12, 17:00) ele

@ele - marginally curious as to why you state to me "What is even worse, is you aren't even 'aware' of 'it'. I looked at it from all angles; I even made a joke about it, trying to see 'it' in a different light. By far, it was the MOST offensive remark you ever made on IQ."

Curious. . .

(28 Dec '12, 06:52) Dollar Bill

@ele - cont -- and you also remarked, "I am replying to the comment which arrived in my inbox. You (Dollar Bill) made a valid point. I was NOT laughing at the suggestion of fear mongering; which I think (unlike you) is NEVER appropriate on ANY internet site.

The ONLY darkness I see here, is within you."

Quote by MM2, "you know the saying "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are"?


(28 Dec '12, 06:54) Dollar Bill

@Dollar Bill

Which is it - marginally curious or curious?

Are you asking me a question?

Is curious a statement of fact?

(28 Dec '12, 21:52) ele

@ele - I was asking for an explanation for your posts I quoted. But let's ramp down from "marginally curious" to "not important," or "nevermind."

Whatever. I am what I am. I make no bones about it. However you want to take this, whatever controversy you have going on within you is yours to deal with. Experience, and enjoy.

(29 Dec '12, 06:21) Dollar Bill

@Dollar Bill

You said "Unsubscribing from this thread. Bye!" ???

My first impulse was to explain & I started to; but my attention went to this:

You said "I care more about what I think about someone than what they think about me."

I realized it only mattered to me.

I agree, great quote by mm2 - True - Naturally, I took it personally. Why else would I say what I did to you?

No worries - no controversy - I know NOT to dwell on anything which is not positive - it only expands.

(02 Jan '13, 01:59) ele

@Dollar Bill

You said "Unsubscribing from this thread. Bye!"

You did delete that. If you can change your mind - I can too - if you want a explanation - I have the time....

(02 Jan '13, 02:04) ele
showing 2 of 23 show 21 more comments

This gathering place is about the inward quest.

LOA is only a tiny slice of that adventure.

Put yourself back to the first day when Simon created this place for our interaction.

There was nothing other than the reading materiel that Simon had graciously shared with us through the website to give us a starting point.

That site brought together a group of people with similar interests, one of which happened to be the Law of Attraction.

But the real adventure has always been about the self and the inward journey to discover that self.

The material on this site is a product of our collective interaction and interests.

So it is really up to us to change the focus towards a wider representation of the "inward quest" instead of looking at the content so far as something that is not representative of our expectations.


answered 19 Dec '12, 17:14

The%20Traveller's gravatar image

The Traveller


I think you said it very well Traveller and I agree.

(20 Dec '12, 17:00) LeeAnn 1

" @traveller - I like this! But the real adventure has always been about the self and the inward journey to discover that self.

"The material on this site is a product of our collective interaction and interests."

(21 Dec '12, 07:39) Dollar Bill

@Dollar Bill

I found this last week - it's worth the read.

To quote @The Traveller

"But then I look at the situation from the other person's point of view and ask myself, Who the hell am I to assume that I am "right" to the point that I can walk all over someone else’s heartfelt perspective."

More of TT"s wise words can be found

In fact many wise words can be found on this thread.

(02 Jan '13, 03:05) ele


You should look at this question too. You mentioned changing your user name. Many, many wise words from many IQ members..

I've marked it as a favorite - I don't want to forget The Travellers wisdom.

(02 Jan '13, 03:08) ele

Words have the power to both destroy and heal. When words are both true and kind, they can change our world. ~ Buddha

Teach this triple truth to all: A generous heart, kind speech and compassion are the things which renew humanity. (w/or w/o the life of service) ~ Buddha

mm2 is a Buddhist; yet he knows what it means to be a Christian.

(02 Jan '13, 03:11) ele

@ele if he is a buddhist he would do the work of buddha, and if he would be a christian he would do the work of christ. buddha and christ booth meditated for over 40 days to become born again of water and spirit.and they booth became living example and way to truth and life. if anny men or women want to follow jesus they should learn what jesus said and teached and if anny thing as been added in the book that does not go along with what jesus teached

(12 Jan '13, 04:26) white tiger

and contradict is teaching put it on the side.quick example:jesus said: I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. so you see right there that jesus said that more then one was born again and went above.

(12 Jan '13, 04:34) white tiger

and you see that later they added the only son that contradict is teaching.but are you surprise at this? like jesus said you like to praise each other: How can you believe if you accept praise from one another, yet make no effort to obtain the praise that comes from the only God? jesus said him self to satan that if God would have wanted someone to go against is law of nature he would have sent someone else. yet from their lack of understanding they made jesus born

(12 Jan '13, 04:43) white tiger

from a virgin and did not understand born again from water and the spirit. jesus said the flesh is flesh and the spirit is spirit,and he said why do you wash the outside of the cup you should wash the inside.then why are they saying that killing him(outside of the cup,flesh) washed everyone. is blood clean your sin. read the bible you can see for your self what jesus said and what was added,and if what is teached to you is in truth or not.

(12 Jan '13, 04:51) white tiger
showing 2 of 9 show 7 more comments

i mean this with all love and respect. If you come to a site with so many people as is one here, that is based on law of attraction, you would have to expect people disagreeing with you. It is not a bad thing to disagree, in fact it helps both parties grow, to expand their views. If you came here souly to warn us of the danger, then it is a road that you must have expected to face. Imagine going into a church, and trying to express to people that Jesus was great but no more the son of god than you and I. WOW.. you would almost HAVE to realize that people will meet you with resistance. In life it is a practice that we all must abide by, IF we expect to have it given to us, and karma, AND LOA say this. If you truly love people, and wish to help them, then you may state ur concerns, and try to teach, but when someone does not wish to hear it, and has already accepted their own truth, then you should not ( if you wish it not to come back to you) impede the free will of others within their choices and decisions. The greatest way to help one is to love them and lead by example. If you TRULY want to help show someone the ways of LOA are faulted, then you must lead by example. Not many people will resonate with you trying to change their minds after they have stated their own beliefs. I respect you, i feel that your heart is in the right place. BUT, i think that when u see other people as attacking you, it is only something brought to you to test you. It is impossible to be upset with another's belief, no matter how opposite it is compared to urs, if you know that yours works for you. Truth is relative, it is only a truth because we believe it. Nothing is good or bad, or right or wrong, only an idea and belief of our own making. If somthing offended you, it was probably not meant to be that way. This place is one of free thinking and tolerance for each other opinions. And i have noticed not everyone has tolerance for others beliefs, but with that being said, if you where also tolerant of others beliefs, it would not upset you so bad that someone expressed theirs, no matter how rough it was given to you. I hope that if you wanted to stay here, that u find a way to. If not, i am grateful for the co creation and experience with you my friend. Love

love n light



answered 20 Dec '12, 08:22

TReb%20Bor%20yit-NE's gravatar image

TReb Bor yit-NE

@Rob, are you suggesting that peace loving Christians would actually do you harm? I mean, isn't it said we're children of God? And Jesus was son of God as, is there some inequality here I've been missing all this time? :)

(20 Dec '12, 09:12) CalonLan

@CalonLan... i wonder if u are being sarcastic lololol,, i love u my brother, u r great.. just wished we could have connected this morning, it would have been a blast ..

(20 Dec '12, 17:22) TReb Bor yit-NE

do you know the difference between jesus and all other? he is the light, he took the narrow gate lifted and removed the stone,properly split the pieces of wood, learned the truth on the water and from the light until the water and the light became one again with no division, and crossed the last door to enter the kingdom above.and with a pure heart went back to the father. he know where he comes from and where he is going. yet none can accept the testimony.

(27 Dec '12, 19:09) white tiger
1 "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world hates you.Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for My sake.

(27 Dec '12, 19:09) white tiger

@rob Thank you Rob :)

(07 Jan '13, 14:07) mastermind2
showing 1 of 5 show 4 more comments

Hello mastermind2,

as for myself all postings on I.Q. have value ... yours included, the value of the posting varies depending on where we are at that particular point in time ... Let's remember that the law of attraction is always at work and has been well before the manifestation of humans on earth ... it is an inherent part of our physical world and as such we cannot escape it's influence ... in the same way we cannot escape the law of gravity ... the simple fact that we are living puts the law of attraction into motion whether we realize it or not

have fun :)


answered 19 Dec '12, 03:55

blubird%20two's gravatar image

blubird two

@blubirdtwo Thank you B2! :)

(07 Jan '13, 14:08) mastermind2

Something about the LOA has always bothered me; It seems so far removed from prayer and God sometimes. I have not really spoken out about this because I knew that the down votes would kill me, because this has become a "pro-LOA" site. I know that someone somewhere will argue that God Himself set up the Universe this way....maybe He did. But what if God did not do this? As a question, why would God set up the Universe so we can all bypass God altogether, and get what we want without Him?

I once likened the LOA to pulling a crank in just the right way, and getting what you want with ease. That seems simplistic, but isn't that what we are doing here? I guess I am just a great believer in the Old Way, Faith, and God. When I want or need something, I pray. I ask God to help me. Perhaps God and the LOA are two sides of the same coin--I do not know. All I know is that this post puts a mighty finger on an important issue: We are making ourselves Gods with this. I can hear Wade quoting Jesus here- Jesus said,"Ye are all Gods". "This you will do and more." And so on.

But I find the LOA clashing with something in my gut. Perhaps it is as Mastermind2 says: we are playing with Karma. We are playing with fire. I prefer to think that God rewards my good behavior. The Karma issue is HUGE. Huge! Getting something for nothing will cost us in the end. And I know that God would frown on all of us focusing on the LOA without paying tribute to Him who set up the Universe, and all of its laws. God tells us right out, up front, that He is a jealous God. Frankly, I don't care to anger Him.

So that is what I think. I will continue to read my Bible, go to Church, and pray, pray, pray. God rewards great Faith. The Bible is chock-full of stories about Faith. Maybe the LOA is a form of Faith; that is not my call. But not talking about God and not attributing this great power to God is wrong.

Many Blessings,



answered 19 Dec '12, 06:58

Jaianniah's gravatar image



The study of abraham's teachings, and bashar's has helped my faith in God and Christ grow deeper. It has taught me how to live the life I want due to being able to grow up emotionally. Yes some, as always will want to ignore the spiritual and only live in the material, however there are many like me who are using those teachings for a better walk with the Lord.

(19 Dec '12, 08:46) clearheart

It is also helping to me to Let Go and Let God more easily, without judgement of another's walk-for me that is God's job. I love IQ because I can talk freely about my beliefs, including the love of my saviour Jesus. And I trust in His ability to handle everything.

(19 Dec '12, 08:49) clearheart

That is why I stick around, too! Thank You!

(19 Dec '12, 10:06) Jaianniah

I think it's wonderful you stay true to yourself and are honest. :)

I work for a very religious company, and a lot of the people here are so wonderful. I remember listening to them talk very deeply about God and the energy that surrounds it all is so amazing. You can just feel how good it makes them feel. And honestly, I've never worked in a better place. I love it.

I feel like, if someone responds negatively to you because they disagree, than they really aren't "getting" Law of Attraction. :)

(19 Dec '12, 15:52) LapisLazuli

@Jai, it's funny how you put God and LOA separately. When I became aware of LOA I felt as if God himself had sent me this message and because of that I have grown even closer to God. I mean, I talk to him as a friend now. I feel I know how to approach him, what to ask for, how to say thanks for all the things that God has sent me... and I could go on and on. I don't see LOA as bypassing God, I see it as his way of calling me closer to him.

(20 Dec '12, 12:27) MoonWillow

@Jai God IS the LOA. God is love, especially love of that which like unto itself There is no conflict with any repligion.

(20 Dec '12, 17:00) Dollar Bill

@Dollar Bill- So are you saying that your Higher Power is The LOA???

(21 Dec '12, 00:21) Jaianniah

God is Love. Love is the greatest attract-or. Everything is part of God. I do not, I cannot bypass God when I use the LOA. It is a big part of Him. One big Package!

(21 Dec '12, 08:08) Dollar Bill

@Jai I couldn't agree more with Lapsis. I admire you & respect you, you never waiver. In regards to your comment to Bill, you should turn it into a question. Since I have your attention - what time Monday evening? I did not forget...

(22 Dec '12, 03:47) ele

@Jaianniah I love you for this post. LOA has absolutely nothing to do with God. If it is a "Law", and people get what THEY WANT, how could it be the divine will? Will of GOD? Do we say Law of gravitation is GOD? do people say gravity is GOD?

(23 Dec '12, 13:02) mastermind2

@Jai For the people who say God is Love, have absolute 0 understanding of what this really means. They have confused LOVE and SELF-LOVE. Those who quote "GOD is Love" forget this part: "Whoever does not love does not know God". I'm going to tell you what it really means.

(23 Dec '12, 13:09) mastermind2

In this human life, man has no way of seeing, God with his eyes, he cant touch God, he cant hear the voice of God. But he can feel God through him. How can he feel God? Every time his heart fills with love, that is what God feels like. Because love, is God. We can love anyone, as God loves everyone.

@Jaianniah don't let people break your religion into pieces and sell it, for their profit... Btw I'm a Buddhist.

(23 Dec '12, 13:12) mastermind2

There is a little piece of wonderful information about self-love on wiki.

(23 Dec '12, 13:38) mastermind2

@Everyone- Thanks for the wonderful discussions here! You have all presented me with LOTS of food for thought! Merry Christmas, BTW (2012)..♥♥♥ Jai

(24 Dec '12, 14:17) Jaianniah

@Dollar Bill are you saying that there is a LOA religion and your God is the Law of Attraction? To me my God is within me, not something outside.

I have studied the mysteries enough to know this old Jewish saying. "What you pay attention to most, that is your God."

In other words what we constantly put first. So maybe you meant it that way, that is your God?

(27 Dec '12, 14:28) Wade Casaldi

@MoonWillow, couldn't agree more. I may have started using LOA as a way to manifest my physical desires, but it has made me a more spiritual person. The best ways to manifest IMO are to release resistance and practise appreciation. Both of these inevitably open you up to feeling love for everything that the Universe is. And to me, filling my life with that unconditional love is the closest I have ever felt to God, even if I don't believe in God in the "traditional" sense.

(28 Dec '12, 05:12) cassiopeia

... I feel that the LOA is clear proof that the universe/God is benevolent and loves us. All we need to do is let go of fear and move closer to Love, and we will be blessed with all the abundance that the universe/God, like a benevolent parent, wishes to give us. And selfishness does not come into this, because the closer we are to Love, and to our true desires, the more giving we become to others.

(28 Dec '12, 05:18) cassiopeia

I guess I can see how people would think LOA conflicts with spiritual teachings, simply because the commercial LOA industry e.g. "The Secret" is so fixated on material gain. But once you start digging deeper, and truly practising the LOA in a spiritual sense, you realise that the message of the LOA boils down to Unconditional Love above all else. And isn't that what God is?

I recommend the writings of Neville Goddard for anyone interested in seeing a more spiritual side of the LOA.

(28 Dec '12, 05:24) cassiopeia

@cassiopeia Well put - this has been my experience too.

(30 Dec '12, 03:46) Catherine

@Wade Casaldi Can you please explain this to me Wade? "What you pay attention to most, that is your God.""

Does this mean the doctor paying attention to sickness and wounds, sickness is his God? or a police officer paying attention to weapons, weapons are his God? ..etc..

(07 Jan '13, 14:12) mastermind2

@mastermind2 It is simply what someone obsesses over the most. Most of their every day is spent with their mind on it, it controls them. Think of the person at the slot machine that spends everyday every moment there. They are practically in worship of that machine. Try having a conversation, it will distract them and get them angry.

Another example: the alcoholic that would rather drink than pay the bills and buy food. He does nothing but drinks from when he gets up to when he goes to bed.

(07 Jan '13, 15:50) Wade Casaldi

@Wade Casaldi Thank you Wade. Nicely explained. I love the 2 examples, so true! :) So could I change the saying to something like this: "What you pay attention to most, that is your Obsession"? - God is very misleading word here (to the uninformed, who judge things by their appearances, who are not used to looking at a things below the surface).

(08 Jan '13, 01:05) mastermind2

@Wade I think the saying maybe a Jewish attempt to get back at their wealthy classes. Wealthy class who think money is God, always obsessed over it! so with contempt the lesser classes condemn them, saying that they worship money and not worthy to enter the Kingdom of God.

(08 Jan '13, 01:08) mastermind2

@mastermind2 I see your point. I really wish I could remember where I either read that or saw it on television. I could have sworn it was to do with the Kabbalah but I tried searching it on the internet and came up empty handed. It does make senses you said as a retaliation against rich our of jealousy.

(08 Jan '13, 02:31) Wade Casaldi

For some reason it is not letting me edit my comment so that last line should be "out of jealousy."

(08 Jan '13, 02:34) Wade Casaldi

I have felt like that at times too. LOA seems somehow very clearcut,precise and without feeling. But if you look at some of the stuff Christ is represented as saying in the bible, thats very clearcut too. He said" according to your faith so be it unto you" thats a law , just like LOA. "Whatever a man sows he reaps " thats a law just like LOA. "Whatever man thinks in his heart, so is he " thats a law, just like LOA. But i do see your point Jai.

(12 Jan '13, 04:54) Monty Riviera

You tied these two concepts together into one neat package for me to digest, Monty. Thanks!

(15 Jan '13, 00:41) Jaianniah
showing 2 of 27 show 25 more comments

You practice the LOA without realizing it or not on a daily basis - everyone does. This isn't sorcery. It's simply being. Whether knowing it. Or not.


answered 20 Dec '12, 21:26

Love11's gravatar image


I'm sorry. But LOA is a conjured-up law as everything else in magic. It is not a natural existing law. If it is a natural law, you are telling me that 20 students in the Connecticut school attracted that? look at your childhood, let your experience speak.

(23 Dec '12, 12:56) mastermind2

@mastermind2 i agree with you on what you said. but is there anny thing wrong with: knowing your self ,knowing other in understanding and truth? being in harmony. and doing things in harmony for your self and other. you see many have missed the first and the second step. and are trying to manifest outside things with their desire. they do not understand them self and other,what makes them think that what they desire is what they need? often they will get it and see that is was not what they wanted. but they like to play magicien with force out of their understanding. they are like someone that as never drive and know nothing about driving but take the key of a car and say lets roll. what happen accident,ticket etc.... i have nothing against someone that wants to drive but start by the basic. all things in life are like this. example: fire can warm you up or burn you. but do you have to be afraid of fire? or learn how it works? you see it is the same thing outside in the physical world. some people you would not like to see them play with fire. but are going to say to them do not do that or stay away from the fire? or are you going to teach them how to use the fire? you all ready know that if you say do not touch this they will touch it. but if you show them how it works they will try it and seeing what it is it will lose its appeal. and if they need to use it they will not burn them self or set fire.


answered 19 Dec '12, 01:32

white%20tiger's gravatar image

white tiger


Absolutely right and anything in life can be used on both sides, Love is charming yet it harm so should we ignore love, and simply one does not test LOA and could go again without it.

(19 Dec '12, 05:50) r0la

@rula love does not harm only judgement,ignorance and lie do.when someone tell you ,you are the love of my life and i will love you for ever and 6 month later hate you because they are not truthfull with them self. and harm them self and you in the process and do not see it from their own ignorance and lie. is it your fault? is it love that is harming you?

(20 Dec '12, 16:46) white tiger

@white tiger Thank you Tigger ;D

(07 Jan '13, 14:13) mastermind2
showing 2 of 3 show 1 more comments


I am genuinely touched by your care and concern for all of us here at Inward Quest.

Your fear regarding the use of the "Law of Attraction" is one that I myself have wrestled with.

There are many spiritual texts and treatises--primarily written during the last 1,000 years--that extoll the virtue of suffering, bearing burdens, and warn of trying to achieve (or desire) that which you desire.

In the ancient texts (such as the Old & New Testaments, etc.), we have prophets such as Jesus and Moses "performing" (for lack of a better term) stupendous feats, i.e. "miracles", through the power of God.

We also have accounts of "sorcerers" performing evil feats, typically through interacting with demons and spirits, or through the use of extensive arcane ritual and formula. The definition of sorcery, at least in these early sources, seems tied to the evil intent of what they are trying to achieve. Also, in some cases, the means to achieve it. Interacting with demons and spirits of the dead are generally considered forbidden in the ancient sources.

However, achieving miracles THROUGH "the" higher power is actually advocated:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full." - John 16:23-24

In the above passage we have Jesus stating very unambiguously that:

A) All wishes/requests can be granted if asked through a higher power


B) It is okay to ask for things simply for the purpose of being joyful, or taking joy in them.

You can also find the following quotes in the Gospels which confirm or touch upon this theme:

“If thou canst because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.”

"if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done. And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.”

“Have faith in God. For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.”

“…believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.”

“Therefore I say unto you, what things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall receive them.”

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."

"And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it."

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name..."

Whatever you believe about the truth of the New Testament, this is one area where ALL the Gospels seem to converge...which attests to the truth, I think, that Jesus was actually advocating these concepts.

Regarding the following passage by Jesus:

"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."

Although this quote is commonly interpreted as exhorting non-violence, and the virtue of suffering, to me it seems to evince a very good handle on the Law of Attraction, in that the person who "turns the other cheek" will desist in attracting violence, while the person who "resists" will continue to attract unwanted violence through his or her resistance.

We also have the Buddha alluding to similar things in the Lankavatara Sutra, and ancient texts on vibration such as the Spandakārikā, the Spandasaṃdoha by Kṣemarāja, the Spandavṛtti by Kallaṭabhaṭṭa, the Spandavivṛti by Rājānaka Rāma, and the Spandapradīpikā by Bhagavadutpala.

Since you mentioned that you are a Buddhist, you might want to check out the Lankavatara Sutra.

However, as I well know from having practiced Zen myself, traditional Buddhism exhorts the practitioner to avoid all desires like the plague...and so, it does not surprise me that you have the point of view that you have. I do not want to deprive you of that point of view, or your belief systems...especially if it works well for you and brings you happiness.

I tried the Zen Buddhist path for years but found that I just didn't want to "go all the way"--i.e., renounce the world, renounce all desires, and become a monk. That just wasn't for me. I decided that I must be here in the world for a "do something" or to experience, affect this world in some sort of healthy/positive manner. Obviously many would disagree with that choice. From their own point of view and belief system, I can understand why.

I thank you for your contributions to this site, and wherever your path takes you, I wish you all the best!


answered 23 Dec '12, 14:38

lozenge123's gravatar image


edited 24 Dec '12, 11:03

Thank you for your post lozenge123. It is very informative. Please give me some time to read and organize my views.

(24 Dec '12, 13:19) mastermind2


This is such an interesting dialog between you & mm2.

There is a zen center near me & I know many members. Monks may take a vow of poverty; but the members I know are very well off financially. Many are leaders in the community & they do not give up all desires & enjoy nice lifestyles. The Tibetan Buddhists I know do not lack money either & they have very fine taste in wine & own expensive pieces of art. (Yes, I know wine is consumed in their ceremonies.)

(03 Jan '13, 02:18) ele


I realize their are many dif sects.

I know their motives must always be pure; Buddhists are not to use divination methods or secrets for their own personal gain or fame & the main intent would be to relieve suffering.

(03 Jan '13, 02:19) ele

@ele- there are a lot of ideas floating around that divination, magic, etc should not be used for personal gain ... surely this is a question of personal belief ... here is an interesting article

have fun blu

(03 Jan '13, 03:16) blubird two

@Barry Allan- I tried to edit my comment to correct a spelling error & I got a message stating I didn't have enough karma points to edit comments. Since when can't you edit your own comment? I was within the hour time limit. Just a glitch?

(03 Jan '13, 03:35) ele

@blubird - Hi!

I was stating the belief of a Tibetan Lama & his wife. The Lama is in the process of transcribing & publishing 'secret' texts. I agree with you - personal belief & matter of conscious. Interesting link... oO, I always have fun... thanks blu!

(03 Jan '13, 03:48) ele


Perhaps this better expresses my thoughts in regards to magick.

Never take more than I need.
Thank the Cosmos for what I have or what I will receive.
Use all of what I have.
Give away what I do not need.
(03 Jan '13, 04:27) ele


(03 Jan '13, 04:32) ele

@ele, this is a test comment that has been edited. And now edited again after visiting some other pages. And now edited again. This test account currently has only 26 karma points. Comment editing appears to be working normally

(03 Jan '13, 05:04) IQ Test Account

@IQ Test Account I can only tell you what I experienced. I clicked edit, corrected the spelling, then clicked comment. I got the message about not having enough karma points to edit comments (it specifically said comments) & to refer to Q & A. I clicked ok. My comment disappeared. I was going to write and ask if my comment could be restored - then I refreshed my screen & my comment was back - but it did not have my correction. I was puzzled by your initial response. Thank you for clarifying.

(03 Jan '13, 14:40) ele

@ele, if it happens again please report it on IQ Meta for further investigation

(03 Jan '13, 15:16) Barry Allen ♦♦

@ele- Yes, it has been a very interesting conversation--glad you find it so too.

Regarding Zen, yes, there are a lot of moderate "lay" practitioners who make good money, drink wine, etc.. And I still use a lot of "Zen tools" today. But in the tradition/lineage that I was involved in, it got to the point where I felt that I really wouldn't penetrate fully into the mysteries of existence unless I "went all the way"...i.e., adopting a lifestyle which would allow me to meditate almost constantly...

(03 Jan '13, 15:41) lozenge123

...and focus 80%-90% on such spiritual practices. In order to do that, I would have had to abandon a lot of other things in my life that I was still very much interested in. The "middle way" wasn't giving me the answers and peace that I wanted. So I had to look for another way that would allow me to do the things I wanted to do, and enjoy the things I wanted to enjoy, while still making "progress" (for lack of a better word) on the spiritual / emotional path. I still integrate a lot of what...

(03 Jan '13, 15:44) lozenge123

...I learned in the past into what I do today. In fact, I would say that my spiritual practice now is a combination of Metaphysics, zen meditation, martial arts, and yogic esoteric exercises, with the dominant emphasis being on the Metaphysical processes that are discussed and advocated on Inward Quest.

(03 Jan '13, 15:47) lozenge123

I feel that a lot of these IQ processes have led me closer to those try one of these processes, and suddenly start seeing blatant synchronicities, or watch an old vibration fight for its survival, and then disappear...sometimes I just go "Wow!" I've been seeing this phenomena in my life for more than a decade, but to finally figure out how it actually works, and use it to better one's life and the life of others, is really something.

(03 Jan '13, 15:50) lozenge123


Thank you for the clarification & well thought out response. There is a recently constructed Zen Monastery in addition to Benedictine & Trappist Monasteries & Abbeys in my area. Unless you see a monk, you can't tell a Buddhist from a Catholic or Protestant. This discussion is very interesting & so much is going on; comment section isn't exactly user friendly, so big TY. Your spiritual path is close to mine - I take what resonates with me & I leave the rest. IQ connects us all.

(04 Jan '13, 01:54) ele

@blu To clarify - I was quoting Native American beliefs. Everything in nature or all creation is viewed as having spiritual energy. Sorry, my thoughts went in a different direction last night. I'm not that altruistic; except for my magical garden & Mother Earth. (scattered thoughts)

I think Carlos Castaneda summed it up best - magic (good or bad) is a matter of INTENT.

(04 Jan '13, 02:00) ele


I was also thinking (at the same time - lol) about your question regarding use of the pendulum & racing. I have no issue with it. I do have an issue, intent is GOOD, it would benefit others (not me); but I'm afraid of bad mojo. Superstition not religious belief; which is weird, cause I've never been superstitious before. (Complicated)

From your link, I went to

(04 Jan '13, 02:05) ele

@Barry Allen

Edit feature worked great tonight as well as the last time I was on. Tonight it was delete feature. Possibly my error. If it happens again, I will report it. I copied the message. Thank you Barry.

Sorry, but you don't have enough reputation points to delete comments. Please check the faq

(07 Jan '13, 05:10) ele
showing 3 of 19 show 16 more comments

i think LOA is a natural law created by Gog such as gravity ,electricity etc.Using natural forces is harmless if you know the principals of them.

I dont know what karama theory is but we must take LOA just a natural law and should not replace God with LOA.


answered 19 Dec '12, 05:21

Zee's gravatar image


Even if you know principles of traffic it's not harmless. And if you ever think you know what you're doing, ignorance hit the fan.

(19 Dec '12, 06:04) CalonLan

For me God is center in my life.I am blessed enough to find the teachings that quide me better than other things I've tried. Personally I don't think any of us are in any kind of trouble because God's love is greater than our biggest moments of experiencing love and compassion. I believe He is cheering us on like a loving, functional parent.....and if some are here on earth with arrested spiritual and emotional developement I don't see Him holding that against them. God is love.

(19 Dec '12, 09:05) clearheart

How could we be in trouble, when no troubles exist.

(20 Dec '12, 08:49) CalonLan

@Clearheart I agree with you completely - I thank God everyday for bringing me this knowledge. Before I came to know LOA I had been asking God for the answer to a better life. I always believed that life is supposed to be good - during that time my lecturer gave me a CD and it was The Secret, I've been on my road to discovery ever since... and I know it is God who sent this to me because I believed.

(20 Dec '12, 12:43) MoonWillow
showing 2 of 4 show 2 more comments

I will miss @mastermind2. It was fun having you here & an big improvement over mastermind1.. Whether I agree with you or not; you have really good vibrations. You rarely failed to make me smile (or laugh). Thank-You!

Whether some of us think Mastermind2 is a troll or not; does not matter. He broke NO forum rules & ALL views are welcome. He was courteous & respectful. Our job was to be open-minded & show him the same respect he showed us. I found him charming, intelligent, articulate & witty - not your typical troll... I truly enjoyed reading his posts & the answers & the discussions which followed. He brought an interesting new dimension to IQ; which I found to be fascinating as well as humorous. For all we know, he's an acknowledged member of this forum, donning an alter ego, to express a different point of view, which he wouldn't be comfortable doing as the user we know him to be or perhaps it was a test or maybe he is totally genuine & some of us are wrong..

Decide for yourself - was he being genuine or was he messing with us?

Matermind2 --- The Native American symbolism (wisdom) did NOT escape me.... Was this your "last laugh"?

The last question you asked was "Wisdom of the Animal Totems". For whatever reason, you deleted it.. I clicked on your profile. You claim your REAL name is Kevin Flycatcher. HA-HA! (anyone know anyone with the last name Flycatcher?)

Flycatcher's Wisdom Includes:

Proper use of Diversion, Deceiving enemies, Rapid change of direction, Ability to judge distance.

As for your location. No, NOT Nara, Japan - more like Kanda, Sri Lanka. Your name is NOT Kevin Flycatcher; but I'll keep your name a secret...

  • till we meet again . . . . love, laughter & peace . . .

BTW - in regards to your question, there is a huge difference between a belief & faith....


answered 22 Dec '12, 02:45

ele's gravatar image


Woow! Impressive ele! :) Just to be sure, can you tell me the first letter of my name? ;)

When did I say belief = faith? I didn't. But I want to ask you, is there any belief, without the substratum of faith in it?

(23 Dec '12, 13:26) mastermind2


Woow! Thanks! I appreciate the compliment. My last interaction here, the user called me simple minded & unable to connect the dots in regards to religious metaphors. lol! I will remove the reference to your city if you want me to. I didn't think it was a violation of your privacy, since it was not a small town.

(24 Dec '12, 03:09) ele


Ok - let me polish off my crystal ball. No, I'll stick with the Ouija Board - no need to see you. You may not be dressed for company!

Ready? The first letter of your first name is the letter ' I '. Do you wish the first letter of your last name also?

(24 Dec '12, 03:10) ele


"When did I say belief = faith? I didn't"

You said "The theory of Law of Attraction is based upon thought (imagination) and belief (faith)."

I do agree with your next sentence "When thought is infused with faith, it has a prayer like power." That is why Prayer is so Powerful.

As for your question - perhaps you should ask that question if it has not ever been asked. Of course, you have a way with words; you can put your own unique spin on it. Yes, you have a valid point.

(24 Dec '12, 03:15) ele

@ele I think belief = faith is a misunderstanding, may be its my weak English? I meant like, you have "believe", to use "Faith" for manifestation in LOA. About posting the location, it was not at all a violation of privacy. I was hiding my real identity because I've made some enemies on my side, who hacked into my emails and fb account to get in to my philosophical work. So keeping out any real info would make it harder for them to find my internet activity.

(24 Dec '12, 13:29) mastermind2

Wonderful work Ele! yep! it starts with I :) What do you mean "You may not be dressed for company!" Hey! I'm always decently dressed ;P

(24 Dec '12, 13:35) mastermind2

Btw my totem is the Eagle.

(24 Dec '12, 13:50) mastermind2

@ele Can I please have your contact info outside IQ? If you don't mind..

(30 Dec '12, 02:10) mastermind2


Enemies, hacking emails & hacking FB sounds scary.

sorry . . . no, even if I wanted to, IQ has no private messaging service. I don't do FB, either. Please, don't be offended; it's nothing personal.

I'm also very sorry for doubting you - heartfelt apologies.

as for your totem - awesome - any eagle in particular? You should check out past questions in regard to this. We have at least 2 Shamans here - Jai & Roy.

(02 Jan '13, 01:51) ele

@ele No worries Ele! I was just keen to see who you are..coz I dont have a crystal ball like you ;( I thought maybe ele is on fb..

About hacking and enemies; they were my friends first but they wanted to use my behavioral research for taking revenge and for power. So I closed my work and then they started hacking..

I want to ask you something, something about my future..all the gurus who read my horoscope told me the same thing..It kind of worries me..Could a crystal ball reading help ele?

(02 Jan '13, 03:43) mastermind2

@ele about the totem- I do not know the name of the type of eagle because, the names from my language are very different from English.. Thank you ele, I will check out the past questions. :)

(02 Jan '13, 03:50) mastermind2


eagles - I was curious, so I looked on line last night. I live in an area where there is a major airway as well as major waterway. (awesome)

Gray-headed Fish-Eagle, Ichthyophaga ichthyaetus. Crested Serpent-Eagle, Spilornis cheela, Crested Hawk-Eagle S. cirrhatus, black eagle, to name a few.

(03 Jan '13, 02:21) ele

@mastermind 2

guru ? meaning spiritual leader?

horoscope? astrology? or prediction of future events?

You should have a crystal ball. All counselors should have one in their office. It would lighten the mood if nothing else. I used to keep mine in my office. Water scrying is along the same lines.

I would suggest Tibetan Divination - perhaps mirror divination - rosary, dice. Mirror divination is eerily accurate.....

(03 Jan '13, 02:29) ele

@mastermind 2

....I'm familiar with many divining modalities & use many. I live in an area with higher than normal paranormal activity or psychic phenomena. I'm not a psychic . You certainly can ask me; but I think you might get more help if you asked the community your question. I'm also a bit concerned. I'd like to know more. Your future is not set in stone - we all have free will...

(03 Jan '13, 02:33) ele


IQ is NOT a chat forum. It is against the guidelines. Click on "how to use IQ" in the upper right hand corner. It's getting very close to off topic chat. (eagle is off topic)

"If you are looking to chat or hold general discussions with other spiritually-minded people, this probably isn't the place for you, though you are welcome to chat with other Inward Questers through our Facebook Page or the "Live Chat" box which you can see on the right hand side of each question page."

(03 Jan '13, 02:39) ele

@ele Thank you ele :))) I'm sorry for my late reply. About the eagle, it is definitely more like the black eagle. But a few close encounters I clearly saw the white neck. But I didnt find in wikipedia eagles with white necks living in Asia :\ but all image search shows the right eagle.

(07 Jan '13, 14:35) mastermind2

@ele Guru meaning well-versed in spiritual practices but not a leader. Yep! the horoscope reading. I don't have a crystal ball, but I want to find one now :D

"All counselors should have one in their office." I dont have a office yet ele. But in the future when I have one, I will keep a crystal ball. But I don't know if it would give kind of a blind faith in my words when I'm counseling. Me looking more like a psychic!

(07 Jan '13, 14:43) mastermind2

@ele Wow! you know so much about divination! I really know very little in this field..I want to ask you but I dont feel comfortable with posting it here..

(07 Jan '13, 14:47) mastermind2


I think you misunderstood. I was suggesting you find a Tibetan Buddhist Master in Mirror Divination where you live to answer your question. I wouldn't say what I do is exactly the Tibetan way; though I do know a master. I do get impressions & have been interested in telepathy since I was very young & is a major focus now.

Yes, I do know a 'bit' about dousing & even witching. There are several experts here, one is an expert in the use of a pendulum.

(08 Jan '13, 22:54) ele


Glad you're back; your words brought a smile when I found them in my inbox.

Feel free to share your "worries". Worry is negative energy.

Crystal ball - spend some bucks - it works well for focus & you will get 'impressions' - use a candle too (meditate).

In a few years you will come to my part of the world & you will come to a 'site' near me. Perhaps you will see me when you get here...

(08 Jan '13, 22:58) ele

@ele Thank you Ele, I'm always happy to see an answer from you! And Nope! I understood you before Ele. But for me to find a Tibetan monk I would have travel to the capital city, travel many kilometers. It is just too much waste of time and effort..and I'm lazy!! ;D

(10 Jan '13, 02:50) mastermind2

I really want to try a Crystal ball and see how it works :) but I'm not going to 'practice' it! thank you for the advice Ele..I should buy one soon. I'm sure I will meet you one day, from a way quite unexpected. :)

(10 Jan '13, 02:58) mastermind2


You weren't using magick to summon me were you? lol!

I have a better idea in regards to your desire. Write your request down & put it in your 'wish' box & believe you will receive it. Then forget about it completely. It will come to you. No black magick. Think of it like this - in my country we put candles on a birthday cake. You make a wish & blow them out. Sometimes it came true; sometime not. Difference is the 'secret'. Often times, secrets are for the good of

(10 Jan '13, 03:13) ele

@mastermind@ (cont)

good of all humanity. It will make you happy & your vibrations will transfer to everyone you meet. Smile & the world smiles back. Nite!

(10 Jan '13, 03:15) ele

@ele He heee! No ele, I didnt! I'm not talented in magick like you! :) I would love to wish for my desires and thank you for the idea! I've never knew about wish boxes before..but 'all things in good time' for me..also this part gave me a smile "in my country we put candles on a birthday cake".."in my country"? I think birthday candles are universal ele ;D I wanna say, thank you again ele. You've been very kind to me.

"Secrets have a cost. They're not free. Not now- not ever.”

(11 Jan '13, 15:57) mastermind2

@mastermind2 Birthday cakes & candles are not universal. A family member comes from a different country & culture. Until this person came here; they had never celebrated a birthday; though they had heard of the custom & is now their favorite celebration & their wishes do come true due to their unwavering 'religious' faith. You said you thought we would meet in a very unexpected way; I have no doubt we will & I know it's not where I first thought. Is that not magical thinking? I used "wish"

(11 Jan '13, 19:43) ele

@mastermind2 . . "wish" in lieu of manifestation box; it's basically the same. The "secret" is faith. Did you have faith when you blew out your birthday candles? As a child, I didn't. Let's say you wish for a cb. It could come to you in many unexpected ways. Someone could give you a gift or you see one in a 2nd hand store (thrift shop, yard sale) & you purchase it or you meet someone who has one & has no use for it & gives it to you because they are moving or you see one for sale in a store

(11 Jan '13, 19:45) ele

@mastermind2 where you never noticed one before. Look for synchronicities; that's real magic! If you believe you will win the lottery, you're going to have to buy or be given a ticket for it to happen. For the most part, I can't make anything other than a parking spot appear out of thin air; which I've been doing for over 20 yrs. I can almost always make another person smile in real life; in fact, poker face strangers always smile when I smile & say Hi as I pass by. Isn't that magic?

(11 Jan '13, 19:49) ele

@mastermind2 .. My vibration never fails to attract all vibrations in rl; too much so. LOA That's the main reason I live where I do. You bring a unique perspective to IQ; you fit in nicely. Fair warning, IQ is a magical place & like Satori said, it will draw you back. Kindness begets kindness. It's the LOA in action. I'm attracted to your light, your vibration, your heart. We are all souls on our own journey but we are all connected & we are not as different as you think. I believe in a

(11 Jan '13, 19:55) ele

@mastermind2 . magical universe & you have your religious beliefs. You bring out the best in me; the real me, the me I am in public (always) but not always in private or when on IQ. I'm not a witch & I'm not trying to corrupt you; I don't cast spells or cause harm. You've been very good natured about my teasing, TY! I was trying to expand your thought. I will stop. I think this thread has served its purpose. I don't think anyone is trying to do any harm by using LOA; it's a universal concept.

(11 Jan '13, 19:56) ele


I did NOT mean to scare you away. Enjoy your Journey! Best of Everything, Always.

(12 Jan '13, 03:36) ele


You'll be back....

(12 Jan '13, 03:45) ele
(12 Jan '13, 04:51) ursixx

@white tiger (Took me awhile to find all your comments) WoW! How did you do all that so fast? Did you have it already prepared, just waiting cause you noticed & I didn't? I didn't realize he had closed his acct when I posted all those comments. lol! I'm blind. Yes, mm2 is a Buddhist, but he is NOT a strict Buddhist. He was having some fun here & I was too.

(13 Jan '13, 02:00) ele

He knew my Ouija board was actually my computer & I found his name & location in a few seconds. I was curious, I checked out his FB page before I ever answered his ? back on 12/22. He's a young college kid with close to 500 friends. He has to have a good sense of humor & good heart to attract so many people. Thanks.

(13 Jan '13, 02:01) ele

@ursixx pity vote plus the blues! Thanks! Yes, his last line created doubt & guilted me! Don't you just love kids. Yes appropriate; for all we know he's already amongst us. Thanks!

(13 Jan '13, 02:03) ele

@ursixx - thanks for bringing laughter to IQ. Sometimes it is very depressing.

(13 Jan '13, 02:42) ele
showing 2 of 37 show 35 more comments

@lozenge123 I'm very happy that you brought this up. I will try to explain this as I understand it. Please point out to me if there are any mistakes..and I'm waiting to hear what you think..

What is the difference between Prayer and Law of Attraction?

If we put it into a simple table:

  • Method | Way | Result
  • Prayer = Asking = We have to be satisfied with whatever that is given to us.
  • Law of Attraction = Utilizing a method ( thought attraction) = We are taking exactly what we want.

Prayer is a wonderful thing. I agree with all the lines you've quoted out of the Bible. In prayer, you ask from God, to grant you the thing that you need. Then the prayer will be answered in proper time, and sometimes they are not.

If you manifest something from honest prayer, it will make you happy. Because prayers are answered in proper time as God chooses it to be. Proper time means; when we have what we asked for, God will make sure that we deserved it.

To me, in Prayer, I cant see any kind of natural boundary broken. Prayer is a sincere way of asking for help from the Creator. Prayer is in every form of religions in the world. Even the native tribes asked for the guidance from their Creator.

In Law of Attraction, we have quite changed the process. We have clearly stated,

  • This is a Law.
  • Thoughts have an attraction power.

If we take hold of this law, we can use faith and manifest exactly what we want.

We have taken faith and tangled it with thought, now thought has the power. As everything else in magic we have conjured-up a power using one of the greatest powers FAITH, and thought. Then we have given it the creative power. The faith here is bred out of gratitude. In this case, gratitude is like store credit, we are grateful not because we are sincere, but because it makes it easier to manifest again. We blindly thank for everything, even the bad. (The Science of Getting Rich) Now we have gained the right to manifest anything as we want.

This is where it turns to Black Magic, unlike prayer (asking the Father to give it to you) We have taken the Godly powers to our hands. God and natural destiny of a man has nothing to do with it now. Now our destiny is what we choose it to be, our desires are exactly what we want, we want to change everything as we desire, including environment and neighbors. All we need is thought and faith to attract the situation.

(This is what I quoted above as:"Faith is a wonderful thing. But when you put it in wrong places, and wrong things are believed in, it can be very costly in terms of health and happiness and life")

In this we have clearly blocked divine will out of our lives. We're Gods now. We're playing God, now.

It is not "let THY will be done Father" it is "let MY will be done Father"

How does nature correct this error? Everyone should obey the natural creative laws of nature and universe. This is the negative karma that I spoke of. How does nature teach humans that they are not Gods? Who ever thinks he is a God MUST be humbled-down as every other human being on this planet. Nature kicks false-Gods out of their thrones! This kicking out will be a huge blow to the ego. Things could get really really bad. This humbling-down of the person is one of the hardest things to go through in the life. If you like, you can relate this with, Angels going against God (Divine will) and how they fell.

I honestly haven't read the Lankavatara Sutra. But I will make sure I read it when I have some free time. Thank you.

About Zen, it is very best that you choose not to go all the way. Renouncing the world is not what we need, we just want to be happy, less negative and less stressed out!
I also wondered about this renouncing part, I think this renouncing part doesn't come very easily, it may come after practicing Zen for 20 or 30 years. I've heard of Zen (Chinese) monks who have married and have children!! But Zen contains the most beautiful teachings about accepting who you are. I really love the teachings of Zen. I have much experience in Zen, may be we can discuss about them in the future.


answered 26 Dec '12, 08:13

mastermind2's gravatar image


edited 26 Dec '12, 08:19


Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. do not forget the flesh is flesh but the spirit is spirit.

(26 Dec '12, 10:04) white tiger

@white tiger Thank you for your comment. Genesis is not meant to be taken literally. The seven days of creation is a symbolic reference. Buddha walked 7 steps at his birth, the number of heavens in Islam is 7, 7 Chakras, 7 visible colors of the spectrum, 7 musical notes, the seven virtues, seven headed snake symbolism in Buddhism, etc.

Genesis also says that plants began to grow before there was might want to think twice before you go declaring that we all are Gods!

(26 Dec '12, 10:35) mastermind2

@mastermind2 it is all writen in the bible even jesus said it. jesus said that God was the father and we are all is son made in is image. they could not accept is message. they made religion saying that he is the only son of God now. you have a father and mother right now in the flesh are you not make like them with the same potential? the flesh is flesh but the spirit is spirit. until you know the holy father in the spirit you also cannot accept the message.

(26 Dec '12, 18:00) white tiger

You are all sons of the light and sons of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light Then Jesus told them, "You are going to have the light just a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, before darkness overtakes you. The man who walks in the dark does not know where he is going.

(26 Dec '12, 18:05) white tiger

If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

(26 Dec '12, 18:10) white tiger

In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, "Why do you look for the living among the dead?You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, You are the children of the LORD your God. Do not cut yourselves or shave the front of your heads for the dead,

(26 Dec '12, 18:14) white tiger

"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

(26 Dec '12, 18:17) white tiger

@mastermind2 - An excellent post, with a lot of food for thought. I'm in the middle of holiday travel...will respond at greater length quite soon. All best and Happy Holidays.

(27 Dec '12, 12:27) lozenge123

@lozenge123 Have fun and an awesome holiday! Bon voyage! :D

(27 Dec '12, 12:52) mastermind2

@mastermind2 - Thanks for the holiday wishes, hope you had a good one too! Having read through your post, you bring up many excellent points...and I don't really disagree with any of them. I think our approach to this stuff is actually pretty similar, and our differences lie in our mere interpretation of what is, or is not, the Law of Attraction. I think that in both of our conceptions, a person who uses LOA for evil purposes, who shuns a greater good or higher power, is using black magic or...

(01 Jan '13, 17:31) lozenge123

...its equivalent. I'm not sure that this is true...but I certainly can't say that it is not true. For my own part, it's not something I feel have to worry about personally since I make all my requests to God anyway, and always try to keep in mind that what I'm asking for accords with good and not evil. This might not apply to others, though. For more of my thoughts on the overall philosophy and general approach, you can check out what I wrote here:

(01 Jan '13, 17:34) lozenge123

Regarding LOA, the thing is, most of the New Testament quotes I posted indicate that it's not merely enough to ask for what you desire, but that how you feel about what you've asked for is key. For instance: "Therefore I say unto you, what things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall receive them.” So clearly there is some blurring here between prayer and LOA. Where does one draw the line? Or is there actually a line, as far as "feeliing" positive...

(01 Jan '13, 18:53) lozenge123

...about your request goes? I'm not sure, and that is probably a more massive question than I'm prepared to answer. However, now that I know about LOA, when I look back upon my whole life, I see it as having operated in almost every major life change, failure, success that I ever experienced. It really does seem to me to be a sort of impersonal, universal law that is operating whether or not we want it to. I can't believe that simply feeling good ("getting in the Vortex") for the sake of...

(01 Jan '13, 18:57) lozenge123

... attracting positive things in my life is some sort of sin. If that's the case, then whenever I celebrate my birthday, or listen to a song I like, or have a good time, would be a sin! Since I am by default attracting more positive things into my experience. I just can't believe that this would be a sin; that God somehow wants us to be miserable.

Now, if someone uses the power of visualization in order to steal away another man's wife, to break up an already happy couple...

(01 Jan '13, 18:59) lozenge123

...well, is that Black Magic? Does it really matter? It's wrong from most people's belief if there is eternal "judgment" or karma, than that person will suffer regardless. If not, then, well...none of this really matters anyway. But as I choose to live in a Universe where morality matters (or where a moral code matters to me personally), then basically, I have to make sure that whatever my choices, I can still live with myself. :)

(01 Jan '13, 19:03) lozenge123

Regarding the Lankavatara Sutra: it won't contradict anything that you or I have already said here. It is a fantastic read, almost like Tolkien, or high fantasy. There is discussion by the Buddha about the fact that we create our own reality, and also about the important link between the Universal Mind and the (personal) Intuitive Mind. I think you'll enjoy it. Re: the Zen path...thanks for the support and well-wishes. I still go back to Zen a lot. It's just no longer the dominant thing. :)

(01 Jan '13, 19:07) lozenge123

One more thing, regarding your statement:

"In this we have clearly blocked divine will out of our lives. We're Gods now. We're playing God, now."

This does make me think about the fact that according to Genesis, we are all made in God's image...and that the only attribute of God thus described is His creative faculty (God is not described physically).

Jesus echoes this:

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name..."

(01 Jan '13, 19:19) lozenge123

There are some Brahman scholars who, assuming something out of nothing, assert that there is a substance bound up with causationa which abides in time, and that the elements that make up personality and its envoirment have their

(03 Jan '13, 05:52) white tiger

genesis and continuation in causation and after thus existing, pass away. Then there are other scholars who hold a destructive and nihilistic view concerning such subjects as continuation, activity, breaking-up, existence, Nirvana, the Path, karma, fruition and Truth. Why? Because they have not attained an intuitive understanding of Truth itself and therefore they have no clear insight into the fundamentals of things.

(03 Jan '13, 05:52) white tiger

Lankavatara Sutra who is that blessed one telling you the truth? smile. when you solve all your inner puzzle and understand your self in truth,their will be no more darkness and division in you. the water and the light will become one. if you take the last door and decide to come back, you also will be tathagata.

(03 Jan '13, 05:54) white tiger

The term is often thought to mean either "one who has thus gone" (tathā-gata) or "one who has thus come" (tathā-āgata). This is interpreted as signifying that the Tathagata is beyond all coming and going – beyond all transitory phenomena. for jesus is one that the father sent.because he know the heart is pure. the pure of heart will see god.

(03 Jan '13, 06:01) white tiger

@white tiger - Thanks for the link, I hadn't realized it was online. I wonder if it's the Suzuki translation? I couldn't find a title or contents page. Great quote from it pertaining to our discussion here: "There is such a faculty in the intuitive Mind (Manas) which as we have seen is the link between the intellectual Mind and the Universal Mind." and "He must have a clear understanding that all things are only manifestations of the mind itself."

(03 Jan '13, 15:34) lozenge123

And more: "this triple world is nothing but a complex manifestation of one`s mental activities...He must recognize and accept the fact that this triple world is manifested and imagined as real only under the influence of habit-energy that has been accumulated since the beginning-less past, by reason of memory, false-imagination, false-reasoning, and attachments to the multiplicities of objects and reactions in close relationship and in conformity to ideas of body-property-and-abode."

(03 Jan '13, 15:36) lozenge123

@lozenge123 Thank you for the well thought reply my friend. "Therefore I say unto you, what things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall receive them.” = Simply the difference in, Faith in God and Faith in Thought. ...

(07 Jan '13, 14:25) mastermind2

@lozenge123 "if someone uses the power of visualization in order to steal away another man's wife, to break up an already happy couple" This is black magic. But when we make sure we don't harm anyone using Black magic we also have make sure that we don't harm ourselves too (by practicing black magic)!

(07 Jan '13, 14:27) mastermind2

@lozenge123 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name..."

Lozenge, If Jesus is the Son of God, doesn't sonS of God mean to be like Jesus? "power to become the sons of God"

"which is Christ in you, the hope of glory." Colossians 1:27

(07 Jan '13, 14:30) mastermind2
showing 2 of 27 show 25 more comments

@ele Hello! I'm mm2. I told everyone this was my last post and I came back here because I wanted to answer these posts and as I said, specially to speak to you(in the mean time I commented on a few other posts). But I didn't change my mind about leaving.

"I was curious, I checked out his FB page before I ever answered his ? back on 12/22." You got the wrong profile, and no my profile is not the first one in the fb search results of my name. As you may have noticed, I'm not the only one with that name in fb.

I happen to know that kid, (fb profile with 500 friends) and he is known to everyone at the College that I WENT to because of his talents in games. I searched my own name and I looked at his profile pictures, it must be the pictures of demon circles from supernatural that made you guess that it was me?

"He's a young college kid with close to 500 friends." No I'm not a college kid, I don't have 500 friends in my account. Not even a 100. I'm young but FAR older than the kid you thought I was.


answered 13 Jan '13, 04:53

Kevin%20Flycatcher's gravatar image

Kevin Flycatcher

edited 15 Jan '13, 03:31

I knew it was you. I saw your city come up after I left the other messages. I was waiting for a new member to appear. I was going to google it - then I did not. IDK why. I had a hunch it was a message. BTW you made me cry! I copied the key at the same time cause I'm forgetful. I didn't want to forget. I knew you would ask Simon to delete it. I'm sorry - but - I think others are as smart as me & prob know who you are by now. Why didn't you delete it before?

(13 Jan '13, 05:07) ele

So others also think I'm that fat kid? :\

I'm sorry I made you cry :( but what made you cry? was it something that I said?

Delete it before? the account or the 'key'?

(13 Jan '13, 05:19) Kevin Flycatcher

OOPS,I read that wrong, sorry about the key. FB,I looked at more than 1; the other 1 was not from your city. I couldn't believe you were that young either, fresh/soph.I forgot to add earlier to wt, how wise you are for someone so young.I was awed!Going to bed.I didn't sleep last nite.I was very sad & my eyes get puffy when I cry. Sorry I hurt your feelings, offended you & disappointed you. You made me cry even tho I knew you would be back. Wish I had went with my first thought.Done w/chat,Rules!

(13 Jan '13, 05:34) ele

Just looked at my email - can't stop laughing. Yes, I thought you were the fat kid. I felt bad for you. Sorry can't stop laughing.

(13 Jan '13, 05:39) ele

Good Night! Sleep tight! Dream of bedbugs tonight! =)

(13 Jan '13, 05:40) Kevin Flycatcher

@Kevin Flycatcher- all this seems to be a complicated set of maneuvers ... welcome back :)

(13 Jan '13, 05:51) blubird two

@blubird two Thank you my dear friend :)

(13 Jan '13, 06:26) Kevin Flycatcher

@ele I want to know why you ignored the other 3 profiles in fb search and choose the first one? :)

(14 Jan '13, 11:01) Kevin Flycatcher

It really irritating that IQ removed delete function in everything. Cant remove comments, posts, answers, questions..anything.

(14 Jan '13, 23:24) Kevin Flycatcher

@No Brainer To be honest, I don't think I'm ready to be here. I'm a misfit here. Its better to leave the sincere practitioners for themselves than for me to stand in their way. In time Universe will reward every man for who they truly are. I made this account, because I dint want get a reputation of a "kid", that would make everything I said here useless. - Thank you.

(14 Jan '13, 23:45) Kevin Flycatcher

@No Brainer I'm not going to use this account unless a question that particularly refers to me arises. Other than that I've stopped answering questions and posting. Also about the MM1 account, I forgot its passwd, that's why I made the mm2 account.

(14 Jan '13, 23:51) Kevin Flycatcher

@KevinFC , our Nikulas is a young man , I never consider anything he contributes as useless . Perception is as unique as the stars in the sky , all have merit :-)

(15 Jan '13, 00:06) Starlight

@Starlight Thank you Star! I hope I did contribute something valuable, in the time I was here. :)

(15 Jan '13, 03:35) Kevin Flycatcher

@ele Okay Ele. I'm very glad that I spoke with you and you without knowing it changed my perspective on spirituality and myself. I'm grateful to you for that. Hope I'll be able to see you in the real life one day. Or you will see me. I will always remember the name ele. :) Have a wonderful journey of magic and light! ~May the Great Spirit walk with you~

(15 Jan '13, 03:43) Kevin Flycatcher

Ahh! almost forgot this, its the 4th profile that starts with 'Ian'.

(15 Jan '13, 03:47) Kevin Flycatcher

@Kevin Flycatcher

Please be patient. I have quite a bit to say & will be back in a couple days. My work needs my FULL attention right now. Sorry for all the problems I caused & the accts you had to close.

(15 Jan '13, 03:54) ele

@Starlight Would you or someone else mind telling me what Nikulas has to do with the convo. I didn't get the email - must have been deleted too fast or edited & then deleted. I did get the comment I made to Nikulas months ago which was copied & pasted by mm2. If one searches around a bit more; one would find another young man who wanted me to email him also. Anyone?

(15 Jan '13, 03:58) ele

@No Brainer I would think you would see the humor here. Evidently NO one on IQ is a movie buff. He said it several times & the last time he said it, I knew I should Google it; but didn't. You asked why he was here? He's my creation - my mirror, as well as my teacher.

(15 Jan '13, 04:07) ele

@Kevin Flycatcher - I hope you don't close this acct. You don't have to participate; but you may want to comment on what I have to say or maybe you will want to contact me sometime. I will be back in a few days.

(15 Jan '13, 04:11) ele

@ele Thank you ele! Nope! I wont close this account. :) Ohh! no ele! you didn't cause any problems. Please dont feel like that.. :)

Nope! Nikulas has nothing to do with the convo.. and about the comment that I copied..I deleted it after about a minute..So only you could see it.

See ya soon! Bye!

(15 Jan '13, 04:30) Kevin Flycatcher

@ele NO one? no one but us Oompa Loompas

(15 Jan '13, 04:41) ursixx

@ele the reference by KevinFC was"@No Brainer To be honest, I don't think I'm ready to be here. I'm a misfit here. Its better to leave the sincere practitioners for themselves than for me to stand in their way. In time Universe will reward every man for who they truly are. I made this account, because I dint want get a reputation of a "kid", that would make everything I said here useless. - Thank you." It's still there ....cont

(15 Jan '13, 05:42) Starlight

I merely used Nikulas name as he is a "young man" that I know of here and I like , respect and think has valuable input :-) Hope this straightens it out for you

(15 Jan '13, 05:44) Starlight
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