Two days after I posted my "Dear Friends" posting, of course, God had a laugh with Wade and I.

I woke up unable to walk....

After hours in the ER, which was a total waste of time, and did nothing to find the problem, Wade drove me home...while I sobbed in the car, totally frustrated with all things supposedly medical.

It too me a VERY long time to reach the second floor of our home, where the only bathroom exists...(and yes, I told the great Almighty Doctors that I was not going to be able to do stairs...) I thought of my "All is well" posting, and laughed a bit to myself. Hah! Things were never going be well, not ever!

Then i got a migraine, and went totally out of my mind with pain, between my back and my head, I thought I was going to die, I really did...

I thought about Spiritual Tests then, and realized the situation for what it seemed to be- a test for Wade and I, a test of our love, a test of our Faith, and a true test of our characters.

But was I only rationalizing? Or was this a spiritual test? Hmmm...

Wade was practically in tears and totally devastated that his Reiki on me did not work at all. I never prayed, so there is another bit of information. In the whole day, in fact, Wade and I had never thought to pray. Interesting.

So did God abandon us because we abandoned Him? What was going on?

Bless you all. I again thank you for your great responses and votes for my "All is well" question.



alt text

God's Curveball Artwork c. by Jaianniah

asked 19 Oct '13, 12:55

Jaianniah's gravatar image


edited 19 Oct '13, 12:57


From me to you Jai

(19 Oct '13, 18:20) ele

No Jai, your not being "tested". I would throw that thinking out if I were you. It wont serve you well. As for God abandoning anyone...this would be impossible. How can we abandon ourselves? I wonder sometimes Jai if you really believe your "one" with God. You often talk about him as if hes a separate entity to yourself!

(20 Oct '13, 08:31) Monty Riviera

Jai, are you a vegan by any chance? I've read that vitamin b-12 (which is pretty much only found in animal products) deficiency can cause migraines (supplements are sometimes used effectively as treatment). Since b-12 damage occurs over time as the body keeps a reserve of it, it's hard to notice deficiency. Other symptoms include "numbness in the extremities, inability to walk and stay in balance, especially at night or in the dark, and serious personality changes, such as depression".

(20 Oct '13, 09:37) flowsurfer

Do consider taking some B-12. Obviously I don't know if it would help but it costs less than $10 a month to supplement with as much as 5000 mcg of it a day. It may have nothing to do with your problems but supposedly the damage caused by B-12 deficiency is hard to reverse. So better safe than sorry, right? Think about it. Might be worth a try.

(20 Oct '13, 09:48) flowsurfer

Found a comment of yours on another thread stating you already checked this. I'm sorry it didn't help.

(20 Oct '13, 10:04) flowsurfer

Jai, you are a good and beautiful person, and you do not deserve "tests." I do not believe in a God that would do such things, and I do not care what the Bible says on this subject. God is Love, and those that tell you differently are wrong.
On the other hand, environmental toxins may lie at the root of your health problems. Have you explored this option? Also, eating wheat causes physical damage, I'd suggest you look at wheatbellyblog and read the articles there.

(20 Oct '13, 11:44) Beach Baby

I know that when I do not eat wheat, my arthritis pain goes away, I spontaneously lose weight, my skin clears up, my brain fog lifts among other things. If you'd like to discuss this further, you can email me at limeviolet @ yahoo

(20 Oct '13, 11:46) Beach Baby

you may want to read The Eternal Quest by paramahansa Yogananda... he says we are eternal beings and we are not our bodies.. that life is just like a movie where God is projecting the movie... we need to through meditation etc get unattached to this phsyical life sort of... through our free will to be unattached to the physical and work by meditating or communing with God we move into the Truth.

(21 Oct '13, 18:08) abrahamloa

Since you are going through something physically hard i really really urge you to read his book. He is really true master and something from him might help you.

(21 Oct '13, 18:09) abrahamloa

according to him we come in this world to learn to go back to God. When we get attached in the desires of this world we create sufferings along with it. We go on re-incarnating to eventually to keep moving out of those desires - either fulfilling them or just growing out of it... then we go back Home to god... some of what you have in this life comes from past lives too.. thats why sometimes we keep asking why why?? that happen to this person etc... but its what you built up till now. etc..

(21 Oct '13, 18:15) abrahamloa

Things and events merely follow their natural course and consequently end up in accordance with their causes. Meaning, nothing ever goes right, or wrong. Everything just goes as it is supposed to go by the nature of the universe's design.

(24 Oct '13, 04:28) CalonLan

jai, if we be tested it is to find ourselves. being a hybrid of spirit and matter it is sometimes difficult to know who we are. that is what we are here for to find out

(24 Oct '13, 15:57) fred
showing 0 of 13 show 13 more comments

It's my opinion that God/The Creator can never want anything bad for us. Not to teach us a lesson. Not because we didn't pray or didn't "pray correctly". Not to punish us. Not to withhold love. Never. For any reason. Nothing bad comes from God.

Consider how much we love our children, or nieces, nephews. Would we ever purposely send hardship or suffering their way? No! How much more does our Creator love us than that? Much more!

God loves us to check in sometimes and connect, through prayer or thought, or action, but he doesn't punish us when we don't. If the reverse were true, we could pray a couple of hours per day and never have a single thing ever go wrong. Of course we would turn into prayer-robots, since the more we prayed, the better everything would go. And the prayers would stop being sincere and heart-felt, and would instead be prayers only to gain benefit in our lives. It just doesn't work like that.

Next time, take a few moments to connect and perhaps give thanks for each other and the things going well. Ask for Creator's presence in your situation and for all the help he is willing to send you. But if you don't...he still cares.

God doesn't send backaches, headaches or troubles. That would be mean of him and he isn't mean.


answered 19 Oct '13, 20:21

LeeAnn%201's gravatar image

LeeAnn 1

Then who does?

(20 Oct '13, 04:13) flowsurfer

How could anyone, Supreme Being, or normal person, send backaches or headaches if they love us? These come from our bodies breaking down, and our own negativity or belief.

(20 Oct '13, 11:11) LeeAnn 1

Flowsurfer, "you" do, as in each one of us creates our own personal experience, based on the beliefs we hold. We create negative experience based on negative beliefs we have unconsciously absorbed from others, or developed ourselves. I definitely do not mean that we do this to ourselves deliberately. Love and compassion are the only true things in the universe, pain and suffering occur due to false beliefs.

(20 Oct '13, 11:22) Beach Baby

lol and I guess gluten intolerance too.

@LeeAnn Excellent Answer, Wise Woman ...

(21 Oct '13, 03:06) ele

@LeeAnn 1 Who made our bodies to break down? Who causes negativity or belief to bring about negative results? God. To say God is not the cause of evil is to deny the very concept of God; or actually, it is to build a pantheon of Gods and give to each the burden of being responsible for one type of thing and having one relationship with men, like the ancients did. Although... that IS denying the very concept of God, so...

(22 Oct '13, 10:33) flowsurfer

Thank you. Ele for your kind words!

(23 Oct '13, 19:40) LeeAnn 1

Flowsurfer, we wanted free will and we have got it. We cause our bodies to break down with bad thinking, bad choices, and buying into the pervading belief that we must die and start again in order to learn our lessons. We believe in disease, germs, aging and more.

(23 Oct '13, 19:43) LeeAnn 1
showing 2 of 7 show 5 more comments

It All comes down to Faith and Trust, they only become apparent amidst the seeming challenges. God has your back Jai...He/She Always does.

God has my back...let that be your new mantra :)

And feel free to substitute the word 'God' for that which resonates with you most. The evolutionary impulse that drives the Universe doesn't care what You call It.


answered 19 Oct '13, 19:12

Michaela's gravatar image


edited 19 Oct '13, 19:14


I often get asked to speak at groups I am involved with and it is the most fearful feeling I can have yet I always say yes when it is possible. The fear I feel is only limitations I put upon myself so before I go to share my experience with a group or face any fear I make my fear disappear easily through prayer and meditation. I am a true expression of God when I allow my heart to align with my knowledge there is no more Fear. Faith can bring miracles, only Believe in yourself it works always.

(20 Oct '13, 09:42) petitesweetyme

I'm going to answer the question you asked - AS ASKED. Please don't view anything I say as personal. I'm speaking in general. If something resonates with you, great & if not applicable, that's ok too - perhaps it will be helpful to someone else.

"Are we just blaming God for when things get bad?"

I think the reason people blame God when things get bad is because they do NOT want to take any responsibility for their own actions. They don't want to admit that bad things happen due to their own decisions, mistakes or doubts. It's always someone else's fault. It's also easier to blame & accuse someone else then accept responsibility.

Some people may be too terrified to look deep inside their self & admit fault. Sometimes people just need someone to blame for their actions because it is their coping method or they are in denial. They aren't able to even entertain the possibility that it could be their own doing, be it consciously or unconsciously, let alone accept their part.

Blaming God is a way to avoid or shift responsibility. People who blame God when things go bad are trying to manipulate God according to one spiritual author I heard speak.

Are "Spiritual Tests" real?

If you believe they are real, then they are & these tests become your reality & you'll continue to create more and more tests for whatever reason.

I think it's another excuse for NOT taking responsibility either based on subconscious beliefs or because of all the same reasons I gave above.

I also think many people, deep down, KNOW they are responsible; but continue to blame God for whatever reason. They live their lives in blame & shame & guilt - all the lowest vibes on EMG scale & create unconsciously ~ hell on earth. You can just as easily create heaven on earth if you choose too.

ETA Nothing is ever black & white. One answer doesn't fit all. WTS ~

Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason for what happens in life & no one to hold responsible; not even yourself. If it gives that person comfort to think they are being spiritually tested ~ Great and I mean this with all sincerity.


Personal note -

Jai - I'm very sorry this happened to you & these health issues continue to follow you. I completely agree with @LeeAnn 's heartfelt & compassionate answer. LeeAnn did a beautiful job explaining why God does NOT punish us. We've discussed this before to the point where you either got angry or hurt. I really hope you listen to LeeAnn & take her advice to heart. God doesn't reward or punish Jai. This image you have of a vengeful God is a false belief.

I think You are living an 'illusion' based on someone else's belief's. These false beliefs of a vengeful God were instilled into your subconscious when you were very young by others ~ parents ~ adults ~ authority figures or your families religion. Some churches teach this type of poppycock. If yours does, please think abut finding a church which believes in a loving God.

People Who Blame God, Do NOT Know God

.. as @Michaela said "Believe & Trust in a Loving God".

...and in my opinion ...

I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together. ~ John Lennon

Whether you believe we are God or part of God is up to you. I know the "Spirit" of God resides in our hearts & when you blame God or believe in a vengeful God, you are believing in a false God ~ God is Love.

alt text

For the most part I completely agree with & believe what @Beach Baby said to @flow . I'm adding her quote to my post because it is very helpful & insightful & I would like to expand on it. It could be applicable to your situation if you allow yourself to be open to the message she is trying to convey. All of us only want the best for you & we all want you to heal & live your best life.

Flowsurfer, "you" do, as in each one of us creates our own personal experience, based on the beliefs we hold. We create negative experience based on negative beliefs we have unconsciously absorbed from others, or developed ourselves. I definitely do not mean that we do this to ourselves deliberately. Love and compassion are the only true things in the universe, pain and suffering occur due to false beliefs.**

I'm not saying you are intentionally doing this to yourself but please think about this - is it possible you are creating misery unconsciously?

These "beliefs" are stored in our subconscious when we are young, a time when we had no way to 'filter' this info. Many of us are totally oblivious to the fact that these subconscious beliefs are still running our lives by creating the experiences we are having today.

The first step is to become aware of these subconscious beliefs & how they came to be. Ask yourself these questions - where, by who & why. Once you determine the origin & know these subconscious beliefs belong to someone else, you'll see how they affect & create your reality today. Discard the beliefs which do not serve you ~ those beliefs were never yours in the first place..

Here are a couple examples of false belief's which could be embedded in a young persons psyche by adults or religion.

Did you ever believe premarital sex was a sin & if you partook in this activity, you were evil or maybe even be destined to burn in hell? Some children grew up to believe sex was only for procreation & if you enjoyed sex you would go to Hell with all the other 'dirty' sinners.

Or the parent who lived in lack & never believed in taking a vacation or buying a luxury item even tho they had enough money to do so. They lived in fear - afraid to spend money - saving - thinking an impending disaster could happen at any time. The subconscious of a child developed the belief it was wrong if you didn't save or you were bad if you spent money on a vacation or something your parents would view as foolish. That child grows up, lives in the 'future' & lack mindset & never takes a vacation.

What about the kid who was repeatedly told he was dumb & wouldn't amount to anything . . . OR . . . when your Dad told you he wouldn't sign the financial papers so you could attend college because he thought you would just get pregnant & it would be a waste. When you heard your Dad speak those words, how did it make you feel? Worthless or unworthy? Even tho you were older when he said this, these words became your 'beliefs' because of all the other trauma & abuse you endured as a child. All these words were stored in your subconscious & became your beliefs.

I think its possible for anyone to create unconsciously without realizing they are the one creating these experiences & their own reality.

I've told you this before ~ if you can't let go of your past, it will take its toll at a cellular level. Disease sets it. A body can only take so much abuse & you're 57. You despised yourself for years & you were killing yourself slowly by smoking 4 packs of a cigarettes a day and eating junk & whole pies when you were diabetic. Why? I think it was because you didn't love yourself or see yourself as worthy.

My advice would be forgiveness ~ forgive others & forgive yourself & let go of your past hurts & wounds & old subconscious beliefs before they destroy you.

I know you quit & you are exercising & eating right. You've said many times "you tried & tried; but you CAN'T let go of your past." Yes, you can ~ you are more powerful than you KNOW. Maybe the first step to leaving your past behind is to learn how to love yourself. You deserve so much better than this. You really really do.

I believe love heals & I also believe laughter heals. When was the last time you laughed Jai? You know how good that makes you feel. Can you even recall the last time you nearly pee'd your pants laughing?

Wishing You a Time For Laughter & Healing with
Love & Light ~ Ele


answered 22 Oct '13, 23:13

ele's gravatar image


edited 24 Oct '13, 03:47

@ele-Just watched The Heat. BIG BELLY LAUGHS!!! Thanks so much for your answer. It is a beaut. Love you- Jaiā™„

(23 Oct '13, 01:15) Jaianniah

@Jai Thank you & I appreciate both your comment as well as your question. I guess it was good use of nearly 2 hrs of my sloth time. I must return to my other world now. Hope it helps.

Listen to this ~ take what resonates with you & leave the rest. It has a great vibe.

(23 Oct '13, 01:33) ele

ele, very good answer. "There is no reward or punishment, but only consequences." This truth proclaims God is innocent. That is why the most ancient Indian name for God is Shiva, which means world-benefactor, something Jesus declared as God's prime attribute. (Mark 10:18) In Sanskrit, most of the words/names are self-explanative, so is this name. Shiva, when spelled reverse is visha, which means poison. And opposite of what poison does is what God does to us!

(23 Oct '13, 02:20) T D Joseph

See the wonderful design of our body. When we are moderate in our habits such as sleeping, eating, working, entertainments and thinking, our bodies respond pleasantly. If one is not moderate with regard to those habits, his body starts giving trouble--with its organs malfunctioning, or even simply shutting down! All these go to show that one's physical body is designed to serve a purpose. One can drive it towards comfort or calamity--it all depends on the choices one makes!

(23 Oct '13, 02:22) T D Joseph

See the pain-mechanism! Is pain good? Yes of course, it is good. Because it is a mechanism that alerts us to avoid further harm and be careful in the future to avoid the repetition of the same experience. So is any pain--mental, emotional .....

(23 Oct '13, 02:25) T D Joseph

@T D Joseph I appreciate your comments & your award of points. I clicked on your profile & saw you have never voted. You can show your appreciation for my answer or anyone's question or answer simply by clicking on the up arrow at the top of any question or answer. You don't have that many points yet - so keep your points & vote up to show your appreciation. Yes, much agreed ~ pain is a very good signal to keep us from harm or inflicting additional pain on ourselves. Thank you.

(23 Oct '13, 02:36) ele
(23 Oct '13, 02:43) ursixx

@ele i have to add that sometimes people who blame God do not know how to get out of the situation. They really dont know why they are ending up on the wrong end or why the situation is happening to them. They need to know the Truth. Then they can slowly make progress.

(23 Oct '13, 17:59) abrahamloa

also no matter how great your thinking is eventually all of us pass out of this world in the phsyical body that we are. some of karmic re-incarnations can explain why some issue stick to us even inspite of a fight from our part. But there is no doubt as to what you said that we need to continue constantly to get better habits, think better and visualize better all the time.

(23 Oct '13, 18:01) abrahamloa

@abrahamloa " add that sometimes people who blame God do not know how to get out of the situation" I thought I covered that. Evidently I was not clear. I guess someone should ask a new ? & ask how they can do this. Thank you for getting through my post ~ it was very long; but I wanted Jai to understand that I understand. I'm forever learning & evolving & forming new beliefs. If something I write resonates with you ~ Great and if NOT, leave it ~ just like you do at a Buffet ..

(23 Oct '13, 18:57) ele

Loved your helpful, compassionate post!

(23 Oct '13, 19:44) LeeAnn 1

@abrahamloa "They need to know the Truth." Who's truth? Yours? Mine? I don't have the answers. My views come from a combination of sources which resonate with me. I take what I like from Buddhism, <gasp> Catholicism, Hindu, New Age, Native American, Quantum Physics, Science, Parallel Universes, Shamanism, Aliens, Mystics, Beatles, Bill Hicks, Jedi, Cosmos, teachers on IQ, etc, etc & in no particular order & I leave the rest. If you know the truth, great. I'm following my highest joy.

(24 Oct '13, 03:48) ele

"All matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves." ~ The late great comedian Bill Hicks

This is my truth -

"It's a choice between fear & love" ~ Bill Hicks

(24 Oct '13, 04:02) ele

I do not believe in the traditional Heaven as religion teaches. I believe Heaven & Hell are right here on earth. I have no words to describe "God". If I'm wrong & I get to the pearly gates & St Peter says no admittance Ele, I'm fairly sure there will be a few ppl who will petition for my admission & I think Jai & Wade will put in a good word too. I'm also fairly sure if there is a Hell, @Ursixx (got your 6) will swoop down & save & find a back door or a window left open & sneak me into heaven

(24 Oct '13, 04:16) ele

@Jai I left something else out of my answer & I want to keep you laughing or at least smiling. I'm not sure if you read my answer to your question "9 Steps to Manifesting Happiness" or not ~ but I'm sure "it*" will make you smile. No 2 is all about flow, joy & health. Nice to read your question & all the answers again.

(24 Oct '13, 04:32) ele

"We are droplets in an infinite ocean of consciousness and when you place a droplet back in the ocean where does the ocean start and the droplet end? They don't. They are all One. Everything is One and was always One. I am you, you are me, I am everything and everything is me." ~ David Icke

(24 Oct '13, 04:53) ele

ursixx knows a guy so no problemo

(24 Oct '13, 10:01) ursixx
(25 Oct '13, 05:26) ursixx

@ursixx lol Caddyshack & Bill Murray. I will. Thanks. I sort of feel you missed my point or my humor escaped you somehow. No one here knows positively what happens when we pass. There is no use worrying about it or being in a hurry to get there ~ it will happen soon enough. It won't add a single minute to your life & worse, you are living in the future & NOT in the NOW.

(26 Oct '13, 01:53) ele

@ele gunga galunga

(26 Oct '13, 03:45) ursixx
showing 1 of 20 show 19 more comments

Why would God test you? There is no point to it at all. God is the one to blame when things get bad. Otherwise the word "God" would be meaningless. In the Bible it is written:

"I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster;" ; "No one can hold back his hand or say to him: "What have you done?""

This is the definition of the word "God". God is the only power; not the strongest power but the only power. Only God can do evil and only God can do good. Your breath and your very thoughts, feelings and every sensation including pain and pleasure are created by God. This to me is self-evident and it has brought me some relief but also some distress. The distress comes from the notion that I cannot escape the hand of a God that does not seem to particularly like me; I cannot even bargain with God because there is nothing for me to give him because all that I have comes from him.

This is why I have told you to look into Neville Goddard before, something I felt you ignored. He makes a good argument, which he backs up by experience, that what is taught by the jewish (and therefore christian) texts is that God is the center of our being, that we are, at the core, God. This is what the law of attraction is based on. It means the evil that falls upon us is simply due to forgetfulness brought about by assuming the human form of how to exercise our creative power, which is God's creative power. Neville described it as "imagination", he claimed we saw God's activity within us in our imagining and that the only thing we had to do to achieve anything at all was to deliberately focus our imagination, to break the mental habits that have created our lives in the past.

I have my doubts but I also realize as Simon Peter "to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.". Everything else is empty and meaningless. To think God is in you, as you, and that the only salvation is through yourself, is hard. But to think God is "testing" is insane. There is no purpose for God to cause you to suffer, there is no profit for him.

The only thing that we should remember is that an immortal and omnipotent being has a different perspective to that of a mortal, impotent being, that is, because you think you were born at one point and will die at another and that what happens cannot be changed you give a lot of importance to experiences. The perspective of God on the other hand is closer to that of a painter, who does not feel afraid of making mistakes in process of creating a piece of art. I have noticed that you have very dark, negative thought patterns within you, from childhood. I have also noticed that you sought comfort in the idea of a personal, external God. In some senses it is true that God is external. He is not however, independent from you and you are not independent from him. God and I are one being, the distinction is simply that of different aspects, sides or depths of that one being.

It is very strange this existence thing. I certainly do not feel like I am God, I feel actually trapped, victimized and impotent. Yet, there is something in me that says that does not make any sense; it is completely insane to believe God would create us and then keep us trapped, torturing us. This something is not "learned" from books, at least not explicitly. God is the invisible power which creates the visible world; we are the center which perceives the world. We are forced to perceive what God creates but what would guide God's creation if not ourselves? I went into a tailspin of depression several years ago and one day I read this and it made me cry:

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away." And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true."

There is a power which can make all things new and wipe away all tears. I know this because if there wasn't, things would not exist. I have to always remember this.


answered 20 Oct '13, 04:06

flowsurfer's gravatar image


edited 20 Oct '13, 04:07

Nice answer Flowey

(20 Oct '13, 08:26) Monty Riviera

excellent :))

(20 Oct '13, 08:26) supergirl

"not the strongest power" Curious @flow if God is NOT the strongest power, what is?

(21 Oct '13, 03:07) ele

@ele Did you actually read what I wrote? God is the strongest power not by degree of strength but because there is no other power to set against his. He is not "more powerful than this disease and able to overcome it", he is the power creating and sustaining the disease.

(22 Oct '13, 10:35) flowsurfer

Yes @flow I read your post.

You are trying to manipulate 'God' & that ain't goin' work @flow & it certainly isn't what Goddard teaches.

(22 Oct '13, 23:32) ele

What are you even talking about? I don't give a rat's ### about what it is that Goddard teaches, he is not my "guru" which I depend on for spiritual nourishment. He is someone who shares his experiences and by doing so, informs me of a wider range of possibilities than that informed by my own experiences. I judge all that he says and some of it seems to be nonsense to me, even though I recognize that my understanding can change so that those things become sensible.

(22 Oct '13, 23:56) flowsurfer

But your whole "you are trying to manipulate 'God' & that ain't goin' work" thing just sounds like you trying to limit and bully me by shaming me for wanting more than I "should". Like you bullied me by saying "When you commit suicide, leave your organs to someone that can use them". Like you bully me by saying it is cowardice to commit to suicide and how horrible it is because of its effects on the people that "love me". I don't think you view me as a person.

(23 Oct '13, 00:04) flowsurfer

As evidenced by the fact that you don't care enough about what I say to actually understand and remember it, and address it, and instead project all sorts of nonsense on me and talk at me instead of with me.

(23 Oct '13, 00:05) flowsurfer

"Neville Goddard is my teacher and the only one that gives me any relief, clarity or hope" I could find a dozen such statements made by you. I said teacher NOT guru @flow. Thanks for the loud & very clear response & the clarification. Night ~ Light & Love ~ Feel Better.

(23 Oct '13, 00:10) ele

Do you have any ####### notion how much it hurts to hear people saying you should endure a life of suffering that you find burdensome because others would suffer if you didn't? How absurdly degrading that is? I know that is a common tactic employed at people expressing suicidal feelings, to shame them. But it is a ####### evil thing to do.

(23 Oct '13, 00:15) flowsurfer

@flow I'm NOT trying to shame you. Never crossed my mine. I am glad to see you moving up the EMG scale to anger. This is the first time I've ever heard your fire or felt any passion in your words. I've also NEVER heard of any "shame tactic" being employed when it comes to suicide prevention ~ news to me. It would be contra-indicated IMO. ETA Also the response I gave you preceding this one was in response to your 1st of 3 comments. I didn't see the other 2 till I went to post this one.

(23 Oct '13, 00:26) ele

@flow Yes I did say you should have a dated & signed donor card. I think this is excellent advice regardless of anyone's state of mind. I recently visited that thread. You deleted all your comments, showing the reason I responded as I did. You also deleted many comments on other threads. I'm sorry you feel I'm a bully ~ no one has ever said that to me before. Show me a little respect flow. Had you responded in a rational way - instead of attack mode, I would have answered your question.

(23 Oct '13, 01:01) ele

@flowsurfer Truth hurts...

(23 Oct '13, 03:25) ursixx

"Not the strongest power but the only power" I got that Flowey. Bit of a negative group of comments above but I just want to let you know your answer was spot on. Not quite sure how it could have been misunderstood! Your learning a tremendous amount Flowey, Nevilles teaching has found a home with you....and me. Like you I don't agree or understand all of it, but im getting there.

(23 Oct '13, 15:19) Monty Riviera

The question I asked you was quite clear @flow. "What do you believe is the strongest power if it is NOT God?" I did NOT say I did NOT understand what you meant or your post was NOT good. I asked a very simple question. When it comes to your interaction with me you tend to get melodramatic at times, extremely forgetful about what you said - outright denying you said something when the words are there in b & w, with the exception of the many comments you deleted, & (Part I)

(23 Oct '13, 16:17) ele

(Part II) & you have an annoying habit of twisting my words which I've asked you several times to stop doing. You also have the sequence of events mixed up once again ~ go back to the "hope" thread & see for yourself. While you're there ~ read the comments you made under the answers.

(23 Oct '13, 16:24) ele

(Part III) I also realize you viewed my 2nd comment manipulation as an attack. You interpreted it wrong ~ an attack was never my intention. I did want to get your attention & I also thought you would think about what I said & what I meant by my remark. Hug!

(23 Oct '13, 16:44) ele

Flow, you would be astonished if you actually had any insight to what Ele does remember and is very attentive to, especially as it pertains to you.

I understand where you're coming from but not because it is what would be said if everyone in the conversation was operating on the same page at the same time.

I also strongly agree with your perception about "bullying" those expressing depression with guilt, and I loathe it as deeply as you do, but I wouldn't perceive that from her..

(23 Oct '13, 19:56) Snow

@Snow Thank you for your kind words. I was not trying to guilt or shame @flow I know you know this. What you prob don't know is - I never said I knew he wouldn't kill himself until he finally admitted after 10 months he was only frustrated with life. @flow has said dozens of times he didn't want to live & worse. The courage remark came after that too & I meant it. I think flow needs to go back & review the chat..

(23 Oct '13, 20:19) ele

Yes, you were ele. To call someone a coward, especially a man, is to attempt to shame him. What I experience is the exact same thing everyone who has ever committed suicide experiences and if I do not find a way to resolve it, it is only a matter of time before the pressure overwhelms my defenses against it. Yet you reply to my sincerity by saying "Yea, I knew you were faking it, thankfully you now admit it so I can relax, even though I think people who commit suicide are cowards."

(23 Oct '13, 20:55) flowsurfer

If I wanted a fatalistic person telling me to "just deal with the fact that life sucks and don't expect God's love to actually manifest into anything concrete" I would go to a shrink or a catholic priest. I came here because I expected to find people who actually believed in a benevolent universe or at the very least understood what kind of pain I am going through and didn't make me feel worse by spouting the zen nonsense that backward cultures use to enslave people into submissive roles.

(23 Oct '13, 21:13) flowsurfer

If you cannot understand that I see through those rationalizations and that without them, I have to confront the prospect that life truly is worthless and that this is destroying any kind of normal psychological structure that could sustain my life, that I cannot just "go look for a job", that I become physically and mentally paralized when I try, you are a ####### idiot who should shut up instead of pretending to be my friend.

(23 Oct '13, 21:18) flowsurfer

I know that people don't always know how to help and it hurts to see that I have nobody to turn to. I don't blame them for it, after all, I am confronted with the same problem of not knowing how to comfort and give hope to others. But I try my best not to be cruel to them. I preface my advice with "Neville says" because I don't really know if what he says is true but I want to be able to point them to something good. I don't tear down another person's hope when I don't really know it is false.

(23 Oct '13, 21:27) flowsurfer

Maybe I am somehow delusional in thinking I can turn to God for support, in a specific, concrete and real sense, to "manipulate God" as you put it. But it is the only thing I have left at this point in my life. Stop trying to undermine that trust because you will accomplish nothing by that, even if you are right and I am delusional.

(23 Oct '13, 21:32) flowsurfer

@flow, there are lot of things in life we do not know and can comprehend. Like you learning from Neville and me from paramahansa etc there are things they say which we are not at a level to sometimes understand. But we can use parts of it they seem to work in our lives. So continue the journey with Neville if you resonate with his teachings.

(23 Oct '13, 22:12) abrahamloa

True masters give us hope and guide us with their light into a better future. I understand you to some degree since i was also at a low where i had no idea what to do and life seem broken. But applying teachings took me to a place of strength i never had in my life ever before.

(23 Oct '13, 22:12) abrahamloa
showing 2 of 26 show 24 more comments


first of all..really sorry for all the pain that ur going through. may God take away all your pain as soon as possible.

few days back a friend of me had attended a seminar of a spiritual guru of india. he teaches everything..including reiki , astral surgery n many more. so, particularly that day when my friend attended...he was taking classes for "astral surgery".. and he taught a lot about balancing your past karmas.

he told a lot about karma and proved that also. he said..if you have any suffering in your present life...or any major health problem..that is cos of your past karmas. now i l tell u hw he proved that..there was a lady in the seminar who was suffering from severe gangrene since, many many years. she did..everything..took medicines, did surgeries but all failed. finally..she opted for some spiritual solution. so..our guru..took her in deep trance for 3 hours. and checked her past karma. n he found that she was a a guy in her past life..who killed and tortured people. and in her past life she had cut a leg of an innocent person and thts y she was suffering with gangrene in this lifetime...that too same leg tht she had cut in her past simply asked deep trance to go her past her mind and apolojise to that same person for what she did.

she did all that. and you won't believe what happened after that. she got completely rcovered ..just in next 2 months.., her years of gangrene completely vanishes just in 2 months..that too without a simple medicine. adjunct to this..she also used.."pyramids "for healing.

this is a true story. and my purpose of telling this to u is.., why don't you try .."past regression therapy".., "astral surgery" or "pyramid therapy". i read somewhere..that there is always a spiritual cause for what so ever effect"u are now seeing in ur life and if its not what u want then.., there is spiritual solution also.

hope this helps you..

i just wanna see both of you ..jai n wade extremly happy and enjoying ur properous life together.

love,light and blessings ur way..

supergirl ;))


answered 20 Oct '13, 08:47

supergirl's gravatar image


edited 20 Oct '13, 08:48

"When tempted, no one should say, God is tempting me. For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone." (James 1:13, 14) Hence there are no spiritual tests, no reward no punishment, but only CONSEQUENCES. Put it simply, history is a drama of two collective characters: FREE-WILL and DESTINY. Once an action is CHOSEN, its result is DETERMINED! Whether visible/perceptible or not, a cause always precedes the effect! Hence when you choose to act in a certain way, you are, in effect, choosing the appropriate results. tdjaum "AT"


answered 21 Oct '13, 05:07

T%20D%20Joseph's gravatar image

T D Joseph

@TD joseph- so..does free will is in our hands n destiny is in God's hand? i read somewhere that..what ever u plan.., after all.., everything is happenings by God's planning ...

(21 Oct '13, 11:20) supergirl

No, both are in our hands--when you choose an action, destiny follows. No cause is without effect, and no effect without a cause. Both are two sides of the same coin. God is no where in the picture. Though simple, this is a great knowledge, which brings you freedom and sense of acceptance. Hence this knowledge is called king of all knowledge in Bagavatgita--7:29; 8:3

(22 Oct '13, 01:24) T D Joseph

but..TD.., sometimes things dont happen as we plan ? why then ?

(22 Oct '13, 01:55) supergirl

Things happen according to the way we deserve, not the way we desire or plan. If something we planned does not happen, we only need to accept it, knowing that is what it has to be, and get on with it. But if you plan something REALISTICALLY, it will happen.

Let anything happen! When you take everything in a sportsman spirit, you won't bother whether something has happened the way you planned or not. You will carry on with it! Because mind is so dynamic that it can think in any direction!

(22 Oct '13, 05:49) T D Joseph
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