Hi, all,

The dictionary defines the word "holy" this way:

adj. adjective

Belonging to, derived from, or associated with a divine power; sacred.

Regarded with or worthy of worship or veneration; revered.

a holy book.

Living according to a strict or highly moral religious or spiritual system; saintly.

a holy person.

I am not asking this question just to ask a question. Rather, I have been privileged to have known a rather amazing number of holy people. Many of them are dead now: Father Lutz; my best friend Pat Connell; LaRea M; Joe Seece, who founded the first chapter of AA in Chicago way back when...

I pay tribute to them all, for they guided my steps along the way, and kept me from a life in the cellar.

I consider Wade to be a Holy person, but he would argue with me because he has true humility, which I lack. Wade has such pureness of soul. He never even would think of swearing, and he is genuinely a true and giving friend to so many people.

But just what makes this "holiness"? Is it something you can see and feel? Oh, yes. But are people born with it, or can holiness be learned like manifesting?

I know for sure that it is something that cannot be faked.

When I first came to Pennsylvania, I went to Wade's church, and the minister rocked the place with the Holy Spirit.

You could feel it in the air.

But, like a vaudeville stagehand, God took His cane, and yanked away that Holiness from our Pastor so suddenly that I sensed it and felt it and it scared me. He slowly began sliding out of the Church- he gave up Bible Study, and that is when we all prayed for people. I knew then that the Holy Spirit had fled. But how? How did I know?

Turns out that the Pastor had begun an affair with the wife of a church member, and God saw it, and our Church finally died. It still makes Wade and I so sad.

But that feeling I had when the church rocked- it was Holy, and it was Good. It made me feel good to be there.

Do you sense Holiness, too? What is its Essence? What makes a person/place/thing "feel" Holy?

Have a Blessed day,

Jai ♥♥♥

alt text

asked 09 Nov '13, 20:50

Jaianniah's gravatar image


edited 10 Nov '13, 03:30

IQ%20Moderator's gravatar image

IQ Moderator ♦♦

@Jaianniah, you've already asked What does it mean to be Holy? Please amend this question to make it significantly different otherwise it will be closed for being a duplicate. Adding the word "truly" in front of the word "holy" does not make it a different question.

(10 Nov '13, 01:56) IQ Moderator ♦♦

Hope this edit works for you- it is what I was after in the first place, but I was too tired to check on everything very well. Thanks for the heads up. Jai ♥

(10 Nov '13, 02:40) Jaianniah

Okay, thank you

(10 Nov '13, 03:31) IQ Moderator ♦♦

Jai, don't take this the wrong way BUT....the holy spirit does flee! Also God doesn't yank away holiness. Jai, I thank the God that I am that your foray into bible college is mercifully over. My wish for you would be to finally drop the mumbo jumbo you've been taught there. It doesn't mix well with the truth Jai. You will in time,we all will. I see a bright future for you.

(10 Nov '13, 08:47) Monty Riviera

@Jai You just asked this question


Many members including LeeAnn, Michaela , supergirl, flow & a couple others users gave you compassionate & heartfelt answers. Then you posted this this ? which totally negates everything we said, once again. It's like we are talking to a brick wall. You have your mind made up. Your God is a vengeful God. Why continue to ask us if you ...

(13 Nov '13, 01:56) ele

you ... have no intention of listening to anything we say? Just looking to accrue points & feeding your need for attention? I honestly thought you were in need of help & your questions were sincere.

(13 Nov '13, 01:58) ele

@ele-... I have a broken thumb which has developed complications, two blown cervical vertebrae, a blown back fusion, and frankly, the only thing I have on my mind right now is bed rest and distractions like movies, and I do not feel up to IQ right now. I have had a migraine for eight days straight. Part of this time I have been blind. I am sorry you are mad at me. I am asking you directly to stop commenting at all on my stuff. Period. Wade hates what you are doing, btw. Please leave me alone.

(13 Nov '13, 15:13) Jaianniah

Everyone should be grateful for Jaianniah's questions. Without her questions all us wouldn't be so challenged to awaken to such great answers.

A great answer can only exist if there is a question to inspire a great answer.

Many questions posted are for your benefit and those seekers looking for answers to the same questions. For Jai they are mostly rhetorical questions given to benefit everyone else.

(13 Nov '13, 16:11) Wade Casaldi

@Wade "For Jai they are mostly rhetorical questions given to benefit everyone else."

Wade, a rhetorical question implies its own answer; it's a way of making a point.

"A rhetorical question is a figure of speech in the form of a question that is asked in order to make a point. The question is posed not to elicit a specific answer, but rather to encourage the listener to consider a message or viewpoint."


(13 Nov '13, 19:15) ele

@Wade Thanks for clarifying; she's mainly preaching & teaching & doesn't need our concern or compassion or an A. Funny nearly every ? she asks is so very personalize in nature. She's a great story teller then. @Jai "I do not feel up to IQ right now" Well the very short rest you took must have helped. See you are back & asking ?'s again. Jai I'm going to comment as I see fit. If you feel you are being attacked by me or anyone, bring it to the attention of the moderators. Good edit.

(13 Nov '13, 19:23) ele

@ele you just don't understand her at all. She has an experience ponders her own answers then decides to see what other answers from other people may be.

It is a way to get more information, an even clearer view and to help others that may have those same experiences. She values answers here, she thinks of other questions as, "That might make a good question for everyone."

(13 Nov '13, 22:24) Wade Casaldi

@Wade so you are saying all these questions she asks are fake. Even tho she goes into great detail in regards to her personal life, you are telling me I should not take her questions seriously. You are saying she basically writes questions for the sake of IQ.

(13 Nov '13, 22:33) ele

@ele nothing is fake, her personal questions many times come from great pain.

You seem to have a personal vendetta against her. I grow tired of these accusations you keep throwing at her.

(14 Nov '13, 00:04) Wade Casaldi

@Wade I have been responding to your comments to the best of my ability based on the info you are giving me & going to the dictionary when necessary to make sure there are no misunderstandings. None of the comments I made to you had anything to do what I originally thought or felt.

(14 Nov '13, 02:27) ele

Galatians 6:4 You should each judge your own conduct. If it is good, then you can be proud of what you yourself have done, without having to compare it with what someone else has done.

(14 Nov '13, 02:43) ursixx
showing 3 of 15 show 12 more comments

Being holy or exhibiting holiness need not be something big. Anyone who expresses love, compassion, forgiveness, humbleness, joy, peace, passion etc is also holy in that moment. All these are qualities of holiness.

So even though we say someone is holy and others are not but each individual always has lot of holy qualities. Its just that we may be holy for a small time and then we worry, or have some negative feeling. But we are also holy everyday. we just go in and out.

The holy men you described are someone who have achieved higher degree or control to express these qualities more consistently. Or when they see their ego coming they have corrected themselves time and again to be more holy more of the time.


answered 11 Nov '13, 20:28

abrahamloa's gravatar image



Such a nice answer! Thank you. I always enjoy your posts, BTW. ♥

(11 Nov '13, 20:45) Jaianniah

"The holy men you described are someone who have achieved higher degree or control to express these qualities more consistently."

You & I must have read something entirely dif.

She said she felt the following people where holy - a Pastor of a fly by night church, her best friend, another woman, the founder of AA, a Catholic priest & a person she claims is holy based on his holier than thou attitude.

(14 Nov '13, 15:26) ele

?? i thought in the beginning she really felt some people were holy.. yes Father Lutz, her friend, founder of AA etc.... and they guided her... So i said those people she admired have developed some loving qualities or whatever other qualities she liked in them... they developed it and were more consistent in expressing those... whereas other normal people also do but for maybe lesser time and they also worry more etc.. I am not sure how you understood ele?

(14 Nov '13, 18:38) abrahamloa

later she told about minister who actually was not being holy and slipped up...

let me know if i am missing something... english was not always my best strengths.. lol..

(14 Nov '13, 18:39) abrahamloa

I guess we differ because I don't judge anyone as holy or unholy - PERIOD. I leave that for people who claim to be Christian to do. Judge not lest ye be judged

(14 Nov '13, 19:54) ele

i don't judge either... i am saying holy is quality of being loving, joyous, passionate, or any of those positive feelings... and anyone can express it... in general when people refer to someone as holy it just means that these people are able to express these feelings more consistently than normal people... but otherwise everyone has that aspect in them and they are expressing it every day but it also gets mixed in with other undesirable feelings of doubt, jealousy, worry etc..

(14 Nov '13, 19:58) abrahamloa

just because someone has anointed someone as Holy man does not mean they are really holy all the time.. they may have some other issues which others don't know.... etc What sometimes christians anoint a priest as holyman but if he says other go to hell just cause they are not christian - then that priest is actually not fully holyman... he maybe called one in that circle but does not mean he is one...

(14 Nov '13, 20:01) abrahamloa

I agree with that @abrahamloa especially in the moment. Why label people? No one is all good or all bad. Who is Jai to say who is holier than someone else? Jai was making a judgment based on her born again Bible type Christian beliefs & there was nothing holy about it. I saw your 2nd comment, I have NEVER heard a Catholic priest say someone would go to Hell for not being a Christian in my life. I have heard other denominations of Christians say this though; but never a Catholic.

(14 Nov '13, 20:02) ele

@abrahamloa is it the man that is holy or the spirit of the man that is holy? being holy as nothing to do with this world. it is not a tile it is a state of being the only one that can anointe you is the one that sent you to this world when you go back to him after over 40 days with a pure heart.

(14 Nov '13, 20:17) white tiger

ok i think we are on different page when it comes to whats holy. So let me state whats holy for me.... holy is the quality thats God like... and for me thats being loving, joyous, passionate, nonjudgmental etc... for me a pastor in christian church is not necessarily all holy if he condemns other non-christians as going to hell etc... i also think all of everyday exhibit holiness too, but we also mix it in with doubts, worries, judgements etc...

(14 Nov '13, 20:21) abrahamloa

Again I was NOT clear @abrahamloa I should have specifically said what I agreed with. I agree with "Anyone who expresses love, compassion, forgiveness, humbleness, joy, peace, passion etc" & this "i am saying holy is quality of being loving, joyous, passionate, or any of those positive feelings" & this ". holy is the quality thats God like... and for me thats being loving, joyous, passionate, nonjudgmental" When Jai named ppl & said they were holy - I thought, yes, good ppl.

(14 Nov '13, 20:33) ele

ok i just read some of the other posts on this topic... @ele, i don't think you should use language that you are out to get her etc... whether you are correct and she may have beliefs that are delusional in your words.. it still does not matter.. just leave it at that.. its not good to get into arguments.. etc... its not easy to change other peoples beliefs.... you express yours and leave it at that... esp. if she does not want you to comment then drop it.. its no big deal... right?

(14 Nov '13, 20:52) abrahamloa

I DID NOT SAY I WAS OUT TO GET HER ---- I SAID THEY THINK I'M OUT TO GET HER & the belief is delusional. This is a public forum & I will comment or answer any question I choose to. I'm not in violation of any rules.

(14 Nov '13, 21:39) ele

ok my bad ele! sorry...

(15 Nov '13, 04:25) abrahamloa

@ele you like to make other people example. but you do not want to be a example. stop focusing out and start focusing in. because right now you are a example. and the focus is being put on you by your own choice.

(15 Nov '13, 18:19) white tiger

@abrahamloa flippant apology? @white tiger Normally I take full responsibility & I regularly apologize when I'm not in the wrong. I typically try to diffuse situations such as this one I'm sorry you are disappointed in me.

(19 Nov '13, 02:13) ele

it was my sincere apology @ele since i did not read properly. thats why i said my bad.

(19 Nov '13, 04:13) abrahamloa

Thank you @abrahamloa I'll take it. my bad does not necessary mean sincere. Check out urban dictionary. Thanks to the profanity software, its now my go to dictionary.


(19 Nov '13, 04:31) ele

wow i didn't know that.. i told you before my english is not best.. i learnt something ... i would not say "my bad" again.. lol

(19 Nov '13, 05:55) abrahamloa

@abrahamloa maybe not so bad ...

psst @Roy

(19 Dec '13, 18:18) ele
showing 2 of 20 show 18 more comments

But, like a vaudeville stagehand, God took His cane, and yanked away that Holiness from our Pastor so suddenly that I sensed it and felt it and it scared me. He slowly began sliding out of the Church- he gave up Bible Study, and that is when we all prayed for people. I knew then that the Holy Spirit had fled. But how? How did I know?

Another post which further cements your false belief that God is vengeful. So so sad. ...

When you came together in celebration or prayer, the spirit of God you sensed came from you and the other members of the congregation. You were able to sense it easier because the feeling was magnified exponentially in the same way laughter is contagious.

The spirit or essence of 'God is always there - in your heart - in your beingness.

A false belief usually involves a value judgment.

The pastor wasn't any more or any less holy than you or I. You judged him as so. First holy, than a sinner who needed to be punished & then you found evidence to support your belief.

The 'Holy Spirit' did NOT flee the church because spirit resides in you. I think what you felt was disappointment because you missed the Bible Study & the prayer groups.

A common type of delusion is the delusion of sin.

Research shows, the more ingrained the belief, the more likely it will be a person will be biased & interpret the info, event or evidence in a manner which supports their opinions & further confirms their beliefs.

As for the pastor - the title does NOT denote holiness. Anyone can become an ordained minister via the internet for a small amount of money & not all states require a minister to have a license. Furthermore, many Reverends are not considered Holy by others. I personally have never heard a 'man of the cloth' referred to as Holy & I don't believe many refer to themselves as Holy whether they feel they are or not. They are no more Holy than you or I. As far as I'm concerned, Holiness is a title used to address the Pope or Dalia Lama, NOT pastors.

As for your view of certain friends and loved ones as Holy - will this view change if they did something you judged as bad. Would your label be a blessing or a curse? Jai, NO one is all good or all bad. God does NOT punish. Punishment comes from within or from other humans.


Belonging to, derived from, or associated with a divine power; sacred.

I have sensed and experienced spiritual/cosmic energy from my connection with the cosmos or Source in addition to sensing the energy in several places deemed sacred as well in nature in addition to having this experience of sacredness & spiritual energy with different people in my lifetime. I've seen sacredness in the faces of the young & old.


In my view, this is 'Holy' (goosebumps & awe)

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answered 12 Nov '13, 20:43

ele's gravatar image


edited 14 Nov '13, 17:59


We are all Holy...honest answer...

(12 Nov '13, 20:52) Roy

There is a purity of belief that underlies holiness. That belief was undermined by the affair. It's hard to help other people find holiness when you can't find it yourself, or you think you can find it in something as worldly as an affair.

(12 Nov '13, 21:56) Vesuvius

Thanks @Roy I was only going to post a comment in regards to a bottle of Holy Water I've kept since a child. An attractive container with beautiful lettering which clearly states what it is. Funny, it hasn't evaporated in all these yrs. The bottle is closed; but not sealed. Considering all the publicity the last yrs regarding harmful bacteria in the fonts in churches & the chapels in hospitals, Holy Water could be considered by some as Holy Dung. It shouldn't come as any surprise ...

(12 Nov '13, 22:52) ele

surprise ... fecal contamination was detected being not everyone washes their hands. They warn anyone with lowered immune systems not to dip their fingers in the font during flu season. Am I harboring a weapon of mass destruction which has been brewing for over 40 years or is it really Holy Water or is it something else? I know what I believe...

(12 Nov '13, 22:54) ele

that was wonderful ele..., wow ;))

(14 Nov '13, 09:06) supergirl

the holy water.." i loved that.. :)

(14 Nov '13, 09:08) supergirl

Thanks @supergirl Glad you enjoyed my answer. I've had the magical bottle of Holy Water since 2nd or 3rd grade. I believe the water carries a a magical essence - the energy of the spirit molecule - the memory & power of the blessing - tis magical. Have you read anything by Dr. Masaru Emoto & his research with water molecules?

(14 Nov '13, 15:00) ele

@ele let me tell you a little secret. the real holy water, you will not find it outside of you, it is in you when the cup is clean and the holy spirit that you are is shining and the 2 become one again. man have keep the ritual but the key where hidden. it was said to you that the truth would set you free.

(14 Nov '13, 19:49) white tiger

Nicely put ele....couldn't have worded that better myself.

(15 Nov '13, 15:31) Monty Riviera

Thanks @Monty Guess I'm the only person here that didn't know she wasn't genuine.

(19 Nov '13, 02:01) ele

@ele "Thanks @Monty Guess I'm the only person here that didn't know she wasn't genuine" How would you feel if this was said about you? Think about it, meditate on it.

(20 Dec '13, 19:36) Wade Casaldi

@Wade I believe I left this comment on the wrong answer. If I recall correctly & I do, you've made this error before too. When I find time, I'll track it down. If someone feels I'm not being genuine, by all means ~ call me on it.


If you don't recall when this happened to you, I can provide a link where we laughed over this?

If you want me to hunt down the answer where this comment belonged, I will do so. Do you want me to? Do you really want to continue this convo? Your call.

(20 Dec '13, 20:55) ele

@Wade I can certainly find the A where my comment belonged. Do you wish for me to bump that thread? IQ is no place to discuss this. If you wish to discuss it further take it to Meta. You know exactly which ? to post your complaint on.

ETA I did find the thread. Additionally, the comment you're speaking of was made over a month ago. Why bring it up now?

@Monty My apologies for the confusion. It's obvious you never said anything on this A which would make me respond in the manner I did

(20 Dec '13, 21:12) ele

@ele I'm trying to give you some insight on what needs healing. On what could use love and compassion. I was just asking you to consider how you would feel if you were in her place.

I just thought this needs healing. I didn't mean it to upset you, I thought you were ready to heal. Sorry I upset you.

(20 Dec '13, 21:54) Wade Casaldi
showing 2 of 14 show 12 more comments

perhaps the nature of being
human, allows for a wide
range of choices, from muck
and mire to that of holiness


answered 10 Nov '13, 06:27

fred's gravatar image


You know @fred- William James would have agreed with you...Read "Varieties of Religious Experience" if you have not already...

I have said may times that you are on the brink of poetry...

What if it went like this?:

Perhaps being human/Allows for choices/From deep muck and mire/To pure holiness....

6 syllables each line...I dunno, I like to mess with words and I like writing poetry. I loved your answer, btw. So simple. Thanks. ♥

(16 Nov '13, 16:17) Jaianniah

I personally think that it is wired into our nervous system. Why not? History has demonstrated that humans have a built-in impulse to seek out a higher power; that feeling of joy or ecstasy when you are connected with Source is just a natural part of that. Why would it be any other way?


answered 12 Nov '13, 21:42

Vesuvius's gravatar image


It's who we are...nice ...

(12 Nov '13, 21:50) Roy

God is spirit and God is holy. God created us in is image, you are a spirit that is holy with the same potential as the holy father and you need to grow to be the light that you can be. you are not in darkness any more walk while you have the light. experience and enjoy.

alt text


answered 10 Nov '13, 12:43

white%20tiger's gravatar image

white tiger

edited 13 Nov '13, 00:17

Holiness means plenitude, wholeness, overflowing abundance, wholly self sufficient and complete, everything's in harmony and developing perfectly and you attain this state when all thoughts cease and are in a state of pure consciousness, pure awareness

alt text

When you project and crystalize your thoughts of holiness, of perfection in the form of an object, writings, personality real or virtual you're automatically separating yourself from the whole, you're automatically becoming unwhole. Your reality becomes separated from the rest with the formation of distinct groups of people with different beliefs and practices. There's exclusion and separation with those groups that have different beliefs to yours.

Under these conditions the only way you can reattain the feeling of wholeness, of holiness is to regularly form the pattern in your mind of what you consider as being holy, and in so doing you're forming an image in your mind which automatically excludes other possibilities and prevents greater awareness.

When the container, a cup for example, contains something it cannot be empty and expansion is temporarily limited. One extremity of the continuum is the zen state represented by the empty circle (yet full of plenitude), and the other extremity is the thought state represented by the circle "lost in thought"

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answered 30 Jan '14, 04:46

jaz's gravatar image


edited 31 Jan '14, 01:23

This is a good point, I believe what Jai senses is that void that lets the Holy Spirit flow through.

Our pastor did that a lot, I do that myself many tines. Actually Ester Hicks does that and Rob does that. They are channeling different beings but it is the same princible. Open up be void, tune in, . as in Zen (empty your cup) Jesus said similar about washing inside the cup. I believe this was what Jesus was trying to tell us when he said we are the temple of God.

(30 Jan '14, 15:03) Wade Casaldi

@Wade the void that you mention is also known as "the gap in thoughts", that space between one thought and the next ... the gap is a perfectly natural awareness state, a spontaneous primal state of being, of living "in the now" ... with practice you can learn to move between these states ... examine these moments with attention and you realize that the more you think the less aware you are and the more aware you are the less you think ... it's "the power in awareness" my friend ... :)

(31 Jan '14, 00:59) jaz

@jaz excellent, yes agreed.

(31 Jan '14, 01:17) Wade Casaldi
showing 2 of 3 show 1 more comments

Holiness is formed. The closer you get to God, the holier you are.

Being humble and giving to others is what creates the holiness.

Feeling control over others and better than everyone lessens it.


answered 20 Dec '13, 19:03

arpgme's gravatar image


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