Do you really know what sorry means?
Because this guy doesn't:
You can actually hear him saying these words, they have been sampled into this amazing song (after ca. 3 minutes):
I believe characters like Charles Manson are the result which the overemphasized rationality in our so-called "modern" western society creates - a robot that can't understand the concept of sorry, that can't take responsibility for his deeds. After all, everything is cause and effect. He has consciously or subconsciously absorbed the deterministic, materialistic and mechanical world view that prevails in our part of the world.
(Ironically, my reasoning here is based on an attempt of logical deduction and thus also... quite mechanical :->).
So what does sorry mean to you? When do you feel sorry? Also especially in the context of all that LOA l33tspeak here on this site? Mr. Manson surely wasn't unfamiliar with this principle. Would some of us go over dead bodies in order to realize our dreams (maybe without noticing it)?
asked 15 Jan '11, 20:27
Barry Allen ♦♦
showing 1 of 8 show 7 more comments
I really didn't want to post an answer in response to this question, for the answers I wanted to give take away from the general direction of this forum.
I think this place is for discussing the journey inwards and as such; these subjects should not get the lion’s share of attention.
However, having said that, I am going to now do the exact opposite, for we are dealing with a battle for the soul and regardless of if the information in these links are true or false, They are an appropriate response as an explanation for what may have caused some of the violent behavior in our society.
So take this response, in that light, and let it be what it is.
I don't know if any of it is true, but it is a possible explanation for what may be happening.
Here are a few more links to the MK-Ultra + Manson relationship
Charles Manson is mentioned in Part 3 slightly beyond the half-way point. However, they are all interesting (and Unfortunately very disturbing)
(9) I couldn’t find Part 9 (part 8 ends with …to be continued)
I don’t know if this is true and maybe you don’t know if this is true, but it needs to be seen if you are going to have an opinion about it (That’s how I see it)
answered 16 Jan '11, 22:56
I watched all of the episodes too bad couldn't find the ninth. I believe that MK ultra is in way more stuff than we know.
(18 Jan '11, 15:47) jim 10
It is sometimes known as the ultimate secret for it is much much wider that what is presented in these videos.
(19 Jan '11, 17:43) The Traveller
Sorry means taking responsibility for your own actions, and not blaming them on society, your parents, or someone's idea of "civil discourse." It's your life, not someone else's.
The Law of Attraction is the essence of personal responsibility; it essentially says that we are responsible for everything that happens to use, or more specifically, we are responsible for the way we think, which determines our experience of life.
Undoubtedly you have been following the recent events in Arizona with respect to Congresswoman Giffords in Arizona. While I believe our country could benefit from more civilized political discourse, any connection made between the level of such discourse and the shooter's actions is woefully misguided. The shooter did what he did because he chose to do so, plain and simple.
answered 15 Jan '11, 22:00
That's true of course, when we learn from our mistakes by feeling "sorry" or "regret" about our actions, we become the masters of our own fate, which is the essence of LOA. However, Mr Manson is well into the occult and thus I'm sure he is fully aware of these principles. I don't think he blames anyone for anything. He is one of those who heard voices in his head that led him to do what he did. That's why I guess he feels he has fulfilled his mission with "success" (even in a LOA kind of sense).
(16 Jan '11, 19:23) herzmeister
Vesuvius, what I appreciate most about you is your good instincts and the priority that you place on embracing the truth -- whatever the source... You've had good reason to resent my apparent rejection of your sincere guidance, but instead, you seem to have used the experience to grow... Respectfully, Neil Roberts.
(17 Jan '11, 15:26) The Prophet
Sorry in my opinion is the advancement of one’s decision to relinquish one’s self from the feeling of guilt, and to offer restitution and justification to break the ice, and to move on constructively!
answered 16 Jan '11, 06:42
Inactive User ♦♦
Good question Mr. welten:
Charles Manson had probably the WORST early childhood on record... His mother lived on the street, Charles with her -- and it was a downward slide from there!
But there's no power in pity, guilt or anger -- there's just a lesson to be learned, and a call to action:
When will we recognize that we will always reap what we sow...?
If we continue to permit individuals like Charles' mother to concieve and bear children without restriction, we will get precisely what we have now -- with no end in sight -- until we all recognize our individual responsibilities to pass the laws that will prohibit it.
Start now... I'll even draft the law for you.
answered 16 Jan '11, 13:31
So who gets to decide who can have children, and who cannot? That idea has already been tried: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics
(16 Jan '11, 17:40) Vesuvius
That's all surely another story. A really sane society wouldn't create such broken families in the first place. I guess we have a long way to go there.
(16 Jan '11, 19:32) herzmeister
Many conspiracy theorists insist that this is precisely what is going on right now, that our freedoms are being taken away under the guise of laws to protect us from ourselves. Thank God that nobody takes them seriously. Let's hope that they are wrong, otherwise we are in real trouble.
(16 Jan '11, 21:24) The Traveller
Global conspiracy or not, in our current state of society it's still "only human" that those who have power strive for more power, leading to more centralization. Global conspiracy or not, in the current state of our collective consciousness we just let these things happen. Let's hope we will wake up in time and find new and better ways.
(16 Jan '11, 22:00) herzmeister
That's a nice handle change, Neil Roberts (The Prophet)
(17 Jan '11, 02:05) Vesuvius
showing 2 of 5 show 3 more comments
I think that sorry, or from what I take the longer term "I'm sorry" actually has at least two meanings. (to me)
Now in the case of Mr Manson, I think this brings up a very good point in the argument of SORRY and almost validates my second definition more than the first.
Here is why.
Like I said earlier most people apologize after the fact and even though some say tongue-in-cheek, "If you were sorry, you would not have done this in the first place", there might be some validity to this when hearing Manson's thoughts on sorry. You see, since he truly (and I believe him) does not understand sorry, for if he did, the horrific crimes he committed would not have happened. How can someone who truly understands empathy and regret, really commit such acts? I think that he is a very very sick and mentally ill person. When people are very physically ill, do we blame them for their illness? ( some hardcore LOA-ers might ) I do not. I know that people need to take responsibilities for their actions but for me that applies to sound minded people who truly understand pain and consequences.
If Jesus Christ can have love and forgivenss for all people and sinners alike, why can't you. He was also just a man.
For the record (if it even matters) I do have love and compassion for every single sentient being on this planet. Is there not any being that the universe created that is not worthy of any love?
answered 16 Jan '11, 15:04
Well said Michael :)
(16 Jan '11, 17:41) Michaela
Yes, one can't deny Mr Manson holds a mirror up to the hypocrisy in our society.
(16 Jan '11, 19:42) herzmeister
Well said Dude...
(17 Jan '11, 11:24) The Prophet
showing 2 of 3 show 1 more comments
Sorry is one of those pretentious words we use to perpetuate illusions we create.
Whatever you do you do because you want to.
This answer is marked "community wiki".
answered 18 Mar '13, 05:37
@CalonLan and regret or reconsider? If you say sorry in the present moment then yes you are right. sorry to have to do this ..But in refection of past deeds that one would not repeat intentionally. Stated from the heart. Then it is genuine. imho
(18 Mar '13, 05:55) ursixx
@ursixx, You probably wouldn't do something today if you knew you would be sorry about it tomorrow, right? Then, why be sorry today, for what I did yesterday anyway.
Sure it might be something I wouldn't repeat again, but why regret it, or be sorry? If you wouldn't do it, then you wouldn't know. If you wouldn't know then you would never come to the conclusion of reconsider in the first place.
The past is dead present, leave it in its grave.
(18 Mar '13, 07:14) CalonLan
I know what sorry means, and I do believe so does Manson, too. The fact that Manson keeps denying this (or at least did and has), isn't automagically true just because someone says so.
For the record Manson has never killed a single soul. The worst he did was to shoot at a another petty criminal. Who THREATENED to hurt or kill Manson's lady friend. He was injured but no where near fatally - but Manson didn't know this. Manson freaked out, hid back to his ranch and did even more dope and as such become even more paranoid than he already was.
Most people - especially in 'Merica - would view defending someone's life as a noble, more or less justifiable, cause. He was willing to risk his own life because someone else's well-being meant more to him.
The dumbest thing Manson DID was to talk stoned to fellow stoners who happened to idolize him. Simply by uttering words "do something witchy" (because of a drug deal gone bad) he sealed his own fate from that moment on.
Manson will die in prison, yet he never killed anyone or told people to kill for him.
"I've been sorry all my life. I'm sorry I was born, that's what my mother told me." is Manson simply arguing that he was never taught how to lead a normal life. He never really got a proper chance to learn from his mistakes.
He was institutionalized from an early age and knew no other mode of existence except that of life behind bars or hiding from the law. He asked to be left in prison not because he was crazy but because he called it home. The year was 1967. But they let him go all the same and hoped for the best.
This was the era of civil unrest, Vietnam war, militant black human rights movement... and unrestricted use of drugs of any shape, color and quantity.
Good luck with that (even if you aren't a penniless, uneducated ex-con).
Before that fatal night of careless talk over campfire with young impressionable and drugged out kids, Manson was just one of the million of hippies in USA who clouded their judgment with drugs and kept seeing signs of impending doomsday every which way they looked at.
"Politically motivated" mass murderer, Anders Breivik, on the other hand says he isn't sorry for what he did. But only because it's the only way of holding on to his own (in)sanity. You have to rationalize and keep believing in your "true" motivations or you have nothing else to hold on to. Absolutely nothing. Then you'd be only viewed as a common murderer.
You can't afford to blow your cover. Not anymore.
That's how it is folks.
Only true psychopaths (and they are in the minority) tend no feel no remorse (or just ignore it) but neither Breivik or Manson qualify for that label.
Manson was quickly labelled as the Devil, and he accepted and encouraged that role since he knew he wasn't going to get a fair trial in any case, and he knew that such a stamp at least would mean that the people in the prison system (both inmates and guards) would mostly leave him alone after learning about him. Cause everyone's scared of the Devil, right?
It's that simple and I'm sorry I had to be the one to tell you all this if you didn't know this already.
What Manson needed was jail time for sure, but mostly he would have needed proper medication and psychological help.
Breivik on the contrary was psychologically too far gone by the time he committed those heinous acts.
He was on a self-determined "catch me if you can" -mode, psychologically and physically (taking drugs, desensitizing himself by continuously playing violent video games to make the idea of killing real people more palatable) readying himself to go ahead with his plans.
He was determined to only back down IF the government manages to stop him in time.
There was nothing political about his "campaign". He just needed some entity - any entity - to vent his frustrations and anger on. Because Norway doesn't have any real problems, he had to make one up. Greedy and thankless foreigners who refuse to accept Norwegian ways? Bingo.
That the government "failed" to protect its citizens (by however defined), was all the reason Breivik needed to have his vengeance on Norway. It was up to him to put his thesis to practice. The saviour of Christinity and Western ideology, no less.
Authorities failing to apprehend him in time, in his warped rationalization, justified the killings. After all, he had outsmarted the System (which to him ought to be perfect). And more, he had outsmarted everybody else too. Hooray.
answered 23 Sep '14, 09:08
Sorry means that you are still willing to be humble to admit your mistake. The word sorry humbles you while bringing peace to others, because now they know that you are aware of your own mistakes and can do something about it.
Bashar says that an addiction is doing something over and over again without awareness, once you are aware it is a habit.
We should treat others as we would like to be treated because we are all One. We are The All.
answered 23 Sep '14, 13:10
I was extremely hesitant to answer this question because your question appears to hold so many "assumptions" that I disagree with.
I used to think that I knew what "sorry" meant, but then, because I over-used it, I realized that it was just a word that I was using to prevent me from exploring why I had actually done something that caused harm - be it to me or others.
Today, the only person I say "sorry" to is my husband. That's because after so many years, we speak in a short-hand of sorts. When I say I'm sorry, my husband know that
1) I have thought about how my words/deeds affected others 2) I have recognized how it/they were harmful 3) I have synthesized that information and adjusted my behaviors toward everyone - not just him
I would not say that I am sorry about my inappropriate behaviors because those behaviors were caused by a mistake. That mistake was caused by a mistake in my belief system. I didn't do it intentionally.
I would say to someone: I never thought about it like that before. Thank you for pointing it out to me. You are right. I will remember that valuable lesson.
So I don't know what sorry means either - other than it is a grossly over-used word that comes out of mouths too easily - meaning nothing.
answered 26 Sep '14, 08:34
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This suggestion may lead you down a different rabbit hole, (pun intended). But first, your logical mind will put on the brakes with endless questions, so you may have to depend on your intuition. I think there is a connection between Charles Manson and MK ULTRA Mind Control Programming. Of course, this will open up another Pandora's Box.
@The Traveller yeah I'm well aware of MK Ultra, that's surely another monster our society created. But whether it really was applied to Manson or not shouldn't be so important in the context of this question I guess.
In the context of this question, I agree that my hint doesn't bear a connection to the behavior of the greater part of humanity, or does it?? That's what I am hinting at. It is possible that much of our "negative" behavior that is now our collective database may have been engineered into what it has become, especially if one looks at the psychological triggers embedded in mainstream media, especially entertainment. There are layers in them for everyone as well as for a specific (programmed) group.
Hatred has its own adrenaline rush, but it erodes the self-confidence. It's like eating more because you feel bad about your weight. Introspection is the way to break it, but the entertainment industry and media prevents introspection, by keeping the individuals attention trapped in the helplessness around them. Cell phones, Blackberry, ITunes, Sports radio, News radio, TV, Newspapers, Talk with friends(endlessly), Talk to your family(that's important)...Where is the time for introspection? What do we really know about terrorism, except that we are not supposed to be sorry for them?
With regards to my comment about Mr. Manson here is a link. I just did a quick search under Google for "Charles Manson MK Ultra". Do what you want with it, its interesting stuff (you don't have to believe it, let your instinct decide if it is deception) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIZw2Vptq4M&feature=player_detailpage
@The Traveller thanks for the vid, I had to use hidemyass.com thanks to Sony music. :-> Yes the role of violence, war and darkness in art and culture is another topic in itself. Normally, I'd say it is important that these things are reflected upon, but it is an artist's job to bring new aspects into them, and to lift them to a higher level, so that society can mentally and emotionally process them and leave them behind.
I see this happening sometimes, but unfortunately not always. It shouldn't be a self-perpetuating feedback loop, but rather spiralling up and out to reach new levels of insight and inspire progress in our society.
"Society" didn't create Charles Manson's broken family, his mother did... Don't arrest "society"... arrest her.